Bottom bracket generators
 

Both Sanyo and Soubitez used to make a generator (dynamo) that attached to the frame below the chain stays behind the bottom bracket. I first saw the Sanyo one around 1982. I don't know when they made the Soubitez one, but my guess is it's a bit later.

Anyway, I have also seen photos of French "constructeur" bikes with bottom bracket dynamo controlled by a shift lever near the top of the seat tube. But I have not seen photos of any dynamo controlled by that lever. In fact I find it a little difficult to picture just how that works. I guess it depends on the specifics of the dynamo, and I don't know what dynamo it was.

Anyway, I'd like to hear people's experiences, and I'd like to see photos (or Daniel Rebour drawings, or anything you have) of these systems.

I've always been intrigued by the 'copper brush headset' thing that I'd read about Herse designing.

I know you asked specifically about BB generators, but this one has the lever controlling a rear dynamo and more importantly, at the end of the article it describes how there would have been a BB dynamo and the wiring to the light.

René Herse randonneuse bicycle



http://www.jimlangley.net/ride/ReneH...ingDiagram.jpg

rhm-

Mike Barry at Mariposa used to build his randonneuse framesets with the seat lever to BB generator setup back in the 80s.
https://mariposabicycles.ca/wp-conte...etails_052.jpg The activation wire could be internal or external in routing.

There is a period Mariposa brochure here that shows the details of the braze-on BB generator mount and a photo of the installed generator and seattube mounted cable actuation.

Bertin used to do the BB generator but without the seat tube mounted lever on its C 134 Audax models.
https://bertinclassiccycles.files.wo...donneuse-4.jpg

There was a possibility of tire slippage on the generator roller in wet conditions which meant some people wrapped the roller with tape or coated it with an abrasive material to minimize slippage. The maintenance must have been a horror.

a quick search pulls up one of the Yellow Jersey's pages that shows a Union BB dynamo with a remote control:
Union German Dynamo Systems at Yellow Jersey
The photos don't show how the cable actuates the dynamo, though.

A quick browse through The Data Book only shows a remote controlled bottle dynamo.

Similarly, a quick browse through The Golden Age of Handbuilt Bicycles shows a few bottle dynamos that have a cable operated remote lever, but no remote BB dynamos.

I know that I've seen photos of the remotely operated BB dynamos, but don't think I've seen details of how the cable was used to actuate them.

It's definitely an interesting aspect of vintage bike lighting. My impression is that BB dynamos weren't in production for long... at least in the big scheme of things. When did they first show up?? Late 70's or early 80's? Once Schmidt started selling their SON hub dynamo around the year 2000, other types of dynamos started fading away quickly.


Steve in Peoria

Thanks, guys, this is all very helpful!

I have three or four of those Sanyo Dynopower generators, all with the same problem; the dynamo bearing has gone bad. They scream bloody murder if used. I tried dribbling oil into one, but don't think it worked. Maybe I should just immerse it in oil for a year or two.

I have one of those Union BB generators, sitting in a box and awaiting being used. The control lever works via a cable, like a brake or shifter cable, that attaches to the generator wheel and snakes up the seat tube, to the lever. The generator wheel is spring-loaded, with the relaxed position pushing it forward against the tire. To turn the generator off, you pull up on the lever and turn it into a locking notch, which pulls the wheel off the tire. To turn the generator on, you release the lever from the notch, let it drop down into its plastic sleeve, which allows the spring to push the generator wheel into the tire. It basically works like a derailleur/shifter interface.

Although my generator has "Union" on the parts, the instructions on mine are from another company called Basta. I had read somewhere that Union acquired both Basta and Soubitez somewhere along the way.

I used to have one of those Sanyo BB generators back in the early 80s, which crapped-out after a few years.

If there's one thing that vintage sucks at compared to modern technology, it's lighting.

LED lights and engineered optics run circles around old incandescent lights. Generators that runoff of a tire are so much less efficient than even a lowly Sanyo hub generator.

USB rechargable lithium ion batteries get better and cheaper every year.

The only thing going for old lighting systems is that they look vintage.

I agree that LED lights are a great improvement over incandescent, but hub generators are hardly new. Sturmey-Archer has been making Dynohubs since the 1940s. The biggest improvement to them would be modern rare-earth magnets.

Giant made the Excursion trekking bike in the early '90s that used the lever-operated Sanyo. There's a thread somewhere around here from the last year or so where a guy posts his find of a crusty complete bike he's restoring, and forum member [MENTION=24271]wahoonc[/MENTION] has a couple of the bikes so he may chime in here. I have used both the Sanyo and the Soubitez but neither were remotely operated. The Sanyo is still on one bike but the bearings are going out and the Soubitez has been removed from the other.
https://www.bikeforums.net/attachmen...1&d=1233727451

Yes, I should have been more specific. Those S.A. dynohubs couldn't power today's high lux lights.

Hey, if it was good enough for Eddie, . . . .

Here is a picture of the one on my Giant Excursion (the rear wheel has been removed for clarity.)

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8261/1...f9867ee9_z.jpg

The generator is spring loaded and the cable holds it off the wheel. Don't recall which one is on my Giant. I am pretty sure it will be a Sanyo.

Just for the record... Sturmey-Archer produced it's first Dynohub the GH12 in 1936, it then became the GH8. the GH6 which is what most of us are familiar with was produced from 1945-1983, along with the FG and AG, which were 4 speed and 3 speed hubs with the GH6 generator mechanism installed. Interestingly enough the GH6 housing is the same as the one they used for their many of their drum brakes from that era.

I have another odd bike a Columbia Commuter III that has a strange brass contact set up in the head set to allow for a the fork mounted sidewall generator to power the fender mounted tail light. The entire front fork assembly comes off the bike for storage, the generator and head light are mounted on the fork.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3822/1...f679515c_z.jpg

I am in complete agreement that LED's are probably the best thing to happen to bicycle lighting in a long time. I have a Raleigh Twenty that uses an AG hub that powers up a B&M LED head light and LED tail light at any speed above a fast walk.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8464/8...7530fd07_z.jpg

Out of my 30+ bikes at least 9 have some form of generator powered lighting.:lol:

Aaron:)

I consider tire-driven lighting to be more conversation piece than acceptable technology. I'd prefer something that wont get bent or damaged by a stick, or a minor mishap, and which won't wear down my tire and increase my risk of blowouts and premature replacement.

I can see using them for occasional, or emergency use, but I'd rather have a quality dyno-hub with lighting elements and patterns that do more than let me see what I'm going to inevitably crash into at the last moment. :innocent: Battery-powered is also preferred, so long as it is functional and efficient.

I had a Sanyo BB dynamo that I used to power a 3V Sanyo Halogen headlight. Of course it doesn't hold a candle (pun) to modern LEDs, it powered me through my first midnight century ride. Works well on the cheap and much better than a sidewall bottle dynamo IMHO.

Don't do a 2.4v headlight .6v taillight if you're going this direction. Use all the power for your headlight. Do a battery taillight if you have to.

I didn't have mine setup for a cable pull, but I could easily flip the lever on and off with my toe while riding.

Advantage to tire driven... it are cheap. I use it on couple of bikes for that very reason. Also in a few cases, they don't make a hub dyno that will fit the bike, or at least not easily. Also many of the better utility tires come with a dynamo track on them (thicker section on the sidewall). They have their place. I use battery lights as a source of last resort, but they have gotten better as the years have gone by.

Aaron:)

But you can get LED conversion bulbs for the Dynohub-powered "bullet" lights:

Gentleman Cyclist Merchandise

I'll let you know after I win the Cyclocross Worlds......

I get it. Cost is the reason I don't yet have what I aspire to put on a bike fitted for riding outside of daylight hours.

I've probably become a bit of a bike snob, but a thicker section on the sidewall doesn't sound like the tires are a joy to ride on. Perspective would probably change to acceptance if necessity were involved.

I miss my Sanyo bb generator. It lasted several years riding in rain & mud.

Bottle dynos are usually straightforward to disassemble. Not so the BB types?

Gugie, have you seen any electrical testing? Specs on the SA hubs are 6 volts 0.3 watts. I don't have a good handle on the power required for, say, a Luxos.

For an SA hub condition is a crap shoot due to age, but they are mainly bearings and wire. Wire generally fails open, rather than petering out in a slowly degrading failure mode.

Please try soaking it in oil, [MENTION=73614]rhm[/MENTION]. I'd like to know how that works.

So far, the Sanyo on my wife's bike in the country works. I try it every few months. She's only used it for real once.

Someone mentioned some kind of stick-on sandpaper that should take care of the traction-when-wet problem. I bought it for some reason, because the likelihood of my wife needing it is ridiculous.

My Miller bottle dynamo screeches loudly when used. I should try soaking that in oil. Then again, maybe not, as I'll be replacing it with a hub soon.

Only .3 watts? I don't know the SA hubs but I would have thought closer to 3 watts. Or is that a slip of the finger?

FWIW, I have owned and used intermittently a Union bottle generator since maybe 1974. It has always put out plenty of power, created a noticeable but tolerable bit of drag (wouldn't want to run a century with it!), and made some noise. It seems to have developed some wear in the bearings which allow the shaft to move in and out some. But it still works.

A few years ago I built a wheel with a a Shutter Precision SV-8. It drives a B&M headlight and taillight. Awesome device. The light flutters at walking speed (the SV-8 is not recommended for lower rotation speeds), but on the road it just works with no apparent drag. The lights just come on, end of story.

Sorry, Sturmey-Archer Heritage :: Introduction has the data sheet. It says 6 V 0.3 A, which is 1.8 W. Good catch!

But it'll be a dim bulb.

Specs on pretty much all modern hub generators is 6V 3W - 10x the old SA model.

Folks, if you want to be seen by cars, a vintage generator will do the trick. If you want to see the road, go modern.