bikingshearer 

Submitted for your consideration, a ~1965 Cinelli SC frame. Here is the link to my thread about how I came by this frame and the obligatory drive-side photo. '65 Cinelli, or Giving Value to Get ValueClose-ups detailing as much patina as I can get BF to upload are below. I love the ride, and this baby is a rider and a keeper.


So the question: If this were your bike, and it was going to be a rider/keeper for you, based on what you see, would you repaint or leave as-is, and why? I have had other vintage frames resprayed (1967 Paramount, 1978 Eisentraut, 1982ish Ron Cooper) with nary a tear or regret, so I absolutely get the "it's your frame, do what you want" response. What I am really looking for here is to tap into the collective knowledge and wisdom of C&V to get opinions and reasons for them to make sure I consider as many factors as possible before I make the decision because (1) to my eye, this one is on the razor's edge between "it needs a repaint" and "leave it alone" and (2) it's a 64cm mid-1960s rideable Cinelli, and those qualify as rare.


Other pertinent info: Yes, I have had the rear triangle spread to 130mm to accommodate the Campy 10-speed triple drivetrain I prefer. I have done nothing else to the frame, so nothing has been done to the frame that cannot be undone. As you will see below, the paint has some definite patina (the closer you get t the frame, the more crud you see) and it is a bit rougher than the photos show. The decals, however, are close to pristine, to the point that I would not be surprised if the decals were replaced at some point. The chrome on the lugs is good in some, fair to fair-minus in others. No socks.


The fork is not original to this frame - it is from a smaller ~1960 Cinelli (that frame was rusted out but the fork was fine) with the steerer tube lengthened to fit this frame. The fork was recently rechromed (it's paint and chrome were well past the "it's only original once" concerns by a long way) as part of a planned refurb that stopped when the extent of the rust damage on the frame was determined.


So, C&V, what'cha all think? If it were yours (in your size) and you planned to keep it and ride the heck out of it, would you paint it or leave it alone, and why? Thanks in advance; this is a great group and I look forward to seeing the responses.

bikingshearer 

More close-ups.

bikingshearer 

One more.

bikingshearer 

I forgot to mention: If I have it repainted, it would most likely remain the classic Cinelli silver, but I could go the dusty rose route. Maybe.

Gary Fountain

I'm all for patina too, but, in this case I think I would be disappointed to look down to see the damaged paint as I took it for a spin. I too think it's a 'razor's edge' decision but I think it's time to re-paint even though it's a Cinelli. The front fork would look 'strange' as is but would look the part if the frame matched it's 'newness'.

I once refurbished the paint on a quite chipped Bianchi because the decal's were in good condition but I fear this Cinelli's finish is finished.

A 64cm frame!! Wow11

FBOATSB

What you are calling patina, I see rust. Rust that must be sanded down and repainted in order for that frame to last another generation. During the repaint prep you can also inspect and deal with any rust issues on the inside. Has not been "original" for some time so that is not an issue either IMO. If it is going to be your rider it is going to look good and you can put your own patina on it in the form of the inevitable scuff or scratch.

jj1091

I'm one that nearly always stays with original paint. My main reason is that it's usually impossible to get accurate reproductions of vintage decals. Sure, you can get paint to match anything these days, but the repro decals and graphics always have too many variations from the original for my taste. Often, you just can't find anything that matches the original close enough that someone won't just look at it and say, "Oh, you replaced the decals." I've had only 2 bikes out of 30 or so that I opted for a complete repaint, and they were low-end gaspipe frames with destroyed graphics.

For yours, it's hard to tell. Not knowing what investment you have in it, if it was mine, I might be tempted to mask off the graphics and respray around them, then do a careful handpainted touchup for the areas that were masked off, like around the downtube lettering, etc. Then again, I've never had much success with blending in areas with metallic paints, since sanding the edges between the newly painted and the masked-off original metallic paint doesn't usually blend well (assuming the OEM paint is metallic, not a solid-based silver color). I'd say to attempt a partial repaint first, if you like it then you've saved the original graphics, and then if it comes to your not liking the result, you can opt for new graphics and an entire repaint. Doing a partial repaint, you can at least advertise it as original paint that has been restored.

Kactus

You have already spread the rear and have a replacement fork, so a re-paint is not destroying originality. The damage you show also is to the point that it may threaten the integrity of the frame. My opinion would be to re-paint it using a quality painter like Joe Bell or Ed Litton.

SquidPuppet

A little too much patina for me, personally.

iab

I'd remove the rust with Evaporust, wax it and call it a day.

Want new paint? Buy a new bike.

jiangshi

I’d paint it up real pretty in dusty rose.

I just painted my not so collectible Cinelli, and had all the chrome painted over, too. I didn’t want to spend the money to rechrome, and it was too nasty to keep. I added water bottle bosses, too. I want to ride it and want it to last. Rust never sleeps — I think Neil Young first noticed that.

gomango

Touchdown.

Exactly what I would do.

Wileyone 

Not what I would do. I do not fully understand the neccessity to not repaint a Bicycle. I can understand if the Paint is in very good condition then leave it alone. That is not the case here. I would paint it back to the original Grey. And have it looking nice again.And maybe preserve that Bike for another 50 Years.
If you have ever been to a Concours Car show you will never see a Car with "Patina". They have all been repainted and it does not effect their value. Why is it different for Vintage Bicycles?
After all "It's just Paint". It's the Bones that matter...

thinktubes 

I Would give this a test on the worst area and see what happens. If you don't like the way it looks, then do a repaint.

Ex Pres 

I'm with iab & gomango

Now if it was a cheap-o / run-of-the-mill bike like most of mine, I'd paint it, and have.
Not this one, but you do need some preservation.

gomango

[QUOTE=Wileyone;20030604
If you have ever been to a Concours Car show you will never see a Car with "Patina". They have all been repainted and it does not effect their value. [/QUOTE]

Absurd.

I showed Triumph TR-6s, Tr-4as and Tr-3s for 13 years.

Not to mention two 1972 BMW 2002s.

S.C.C.A. and North Star chapters.

The judges would go spastic if a bolt was out of place, much less a repaint.

You simply do not share correct info in this instance.

edit: Of course, I refer to "mint condition."

Salamandrine 

I vote repaint. That's not patina, it is rust, and it will continue to grow unless it is stopped. If it was a vintage guitar, or antique furniture, or piece of art, I would say keep it as original as possible. I think a better analogy is an antique wooden boat. Would you keep the leaking caulk and missing varnish, because it's original? Of course not. It would be fixed.

I understand the value and sentiment of original paint, but I don't feel that allowing the object to decay is worth that value.

If it is repainted, it must be done well. A bad repaint and bad decals will kill it. The bike should be photographed and the decals carefully measured (like +/- .010") beforehand, if it is refinished.

At a minimum, the bike should be bathed in evaporust and waxed. Insides should also be treated with framesaver or something.

Slightspeed

Paint. It may only be original once, but rusty bare steel is not original. No "paint or not" issues for me on my '73 Super Course. Spray painted over chrome, and frame needed braze repair and cable guides replaced because some previous life moron removed them. As found and repainted pictures below. Paint was never an issue, just paint or powder coat? I was afraid of losing Capella lugs detail, so went with automotive paint, non standard Toyota color. New decals too.

agmazza

Cino Cinelli and Luigi Valsassina would be happier of you would throw a new dress this onto this most elegant, noble lady. And, stick with the original grey Rolls-Royce colour.

clydesdale65 

Too much patina for me too. I would repaint with a great painter like Joe Bell. It would be a shame if the rust compromised the frame. My friend had to replace a seatstay on an Eddy Merckx that had so much rust the seatstay broke. I'd hate to see you have to replace a tube, then a repaint would be a must.

iab

I've been to many shows. And in a previous life, I restored and preserved many cars in those shows. By the early 90s, we were not restoring any original work. If there was damage, we would fix it as well as it could be done without adding lead/bondo or new paint.

Not to say we didn't restore. Good paint requires at least 200 hours of sanding. But there is no way original paint would be worth less than that.

Here's me replacing the fuel pump. Below that is the car. While the pay sucked, I did get to drive those cars. It was a nice perk. And if anyone has that Stussy hat, I'd pay strong for it.

gt402 by iabisdb, on Flickr

gt40 by iabisdb, on Flickr

fender1

I say paint. No brainer, IMHO.

nesteel 

Depends on what you're looking for. If you're shooting for the WAY OVERPLAYED "rat rod" (aka: used up junk) look, then leave it as it is. Want a nice looking bike? Repaint it. It's not a million dollar + show car. It's a bike.
Any shred of "originality" went out the window with the redone fork. BTW, IMHO, the beautiful fork looks like a diamond in an ashtray against that used up paint job.

repechage

Previously, I was a repaint the top tube vote. Now I have to depart with family, I will return with my verdict.

repechage

Ok, arresting the rust - evaporust, barkeepers friend would a low risk venture for right now.
I would source graphics, varnish fix downtube transfers would be optimal, later repros from cyclomondo as a back up. I would look around including Italian eBay.
I don't see a huge rush here.
I am not a chrome fork guy, on this bike as it sits it is less of an issue than I would think.
After sourcing graphics and a spare seat post binder bolt from cyclomondo and reviewing the rust stabilization... Then decide.
I would also spend the $ necessary to get a spray out of any new paint. Brian Baylis noted an old 60's Alfa Romeo silver was the ticket btw. I will toss a grenade and suggest Black. Belinkey did a restoration of one to Black and it was stunning and an OEM color.
If you paint then you have to consider the head badge, it will be lagging visually afterward.