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Will rim caliper brakes now be delegated to complete obsolecense??

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Will rim caliper brakes now be delegated to complete obsolecense??

Old 12-05-17, 02:23 AM
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Chombi1 
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Will rim caliper brakes now be delegated to complete obsolecense??

Every nice bike shop I go to these days are now selling sport and race road bikes with disc brakes.....
And it seems like it's already working quickly its way down to even mid level models. I could see even the lowest models to be featuring mechanical disc brakes within a couple of years. Most of the new road bike tests in bike publications are featuring just disc braked bikes.
I also noticed that a lot of modern race bike riders I know are now seriously thinking of trading in their still new, rim braked bikes for newer disc braked ones.
So is the rim caliper brake doomed forever, just like what we saw what happened to DT shifters??
I heartily agree with technology's continuing march of progress towards making riding a bike safer and more efficient with things like disc brake systems, but I cannot help to feel a bit down that the rim brakes on our bikes, especially the ones we stood by on our rides and with our C&V bike builds for many years, would now be be considered as antiquated and dangerous as the old spoon brakes from the turn of the century....
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Old 12-05-17, 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Chombi1
[...]but I cannot help to feel a bit down that the rim brakes on our bikes, especially the ones we stood by on our rides and with our C&V bike builds for many years, would now be be considered as antiquated and dangerous as the old spoon brakes from the turn of the century....
Let's be honest though. They are...if we consider their usage in all sorts of weather. Rim brakes are notoriously bad in the rain and near useless in the snow.

And using feathering to heat up the rim is similar to pumping the brakes because you don't have ABS in a car.

I'm a drum bake guy myself but most people view those as dangerous in the mountains. Even though a small addition such as heatsinks solves that problem.

Horses for courses but rim brakes work great for fair weather use in more sporty conditions but for utilitarian use there are far better options and I'm cool with them being replaced by discs.

Last edited by JaccoW; 12-05-17 at 03:09 AM.
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Old 12-05-17, 04:11 AM
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Not too many years ago there was a debate as to whether disc brakes were going to take over in cyclocross or not. A lot of the pros, especially in Europe, were sticking with cantilever brakes and so some people speculated that disc brakes might not be embraced.

As it turned out, it just took a couple of years for the technology to mature and the veteran racers who had used cantilevers all their lives to retire. Now everyone is using discs. I myself, Luddite that I am, finally made the switch this year.

I expect we'll see road bikes go the same way. The technology is just too compelling. That's not to say rim brakes are in any way lacking. There just isn't a very strong case to be made for why anyone should prefer them over rim brakes. Of course, many of us here will make the argument anyway. We'll just be wrong.
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Old 12-05-17, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K
Of course, many of us here will make the argument anyway. We'll just be wrong.
That's actually really ironic... when I started cycling as an adult a few years ago, my only two bikes were a vintage road bike with a Dia Compe single-pivot setup, and a modern MTB with hydro discs. And I was definitely under the impression that discs were a massive improvement even for road. After getting a modern road bike with 5800 calipers, I can't say that I care all that much anymore, even living in the Seattle area.

The thing that could actually push me to discs on a pavement bike would be fancy carbon wheels. Could avoid chewing up a rather expensive rim with mucky wet braking...

Last edited by HTupolev; 12-05-17 at 04:34 AM.
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Old 12-05-17, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Chombi1
I also noticed that a lot of modern race bike riders I know are now seriously thinking of trading in their still new, rim braked bikes for newer disc braked ones.
I'm looking forward to buying little-used high-end bikes that are cursed with rim brakes for next to nothing.
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Old 12-05-17, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K
Not too many years ago there was a debate as to whether disc brakes were going to take over in cyclocross or not. A lot of the pros, especially in Europe, were sticking with cantilever brakes and so some people speculated that disc brakes might not be embraced.

As it turned out, it just took a couple of years for the technology to mature and the veteran racers who had used cantilevers all their lives to retire. Now everyone is using discs. I myself, Luddite that I am, finally made the switch this year.
I knew discs would take over in CX for the same reasons they did in MTB.

Originally Posted by Andy_K
here just isn't a very strong case to be made for why anyone should prefer them over rim brakes.
People want to ride what the pro peloton rides. And the concern in the peloton is risk of injury in a mass pile up and slower wheel changes which IMO are legitimate concerns. Road racing is a different world than MTB and CX. And no I'm not going to debate it for 10 pages, you guys can do that lol
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Old 12-05-17, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
I'm looking forward to buying little-used high-end bikes that are cursed with rim brakes for next to nothing.
+1 as one who daily commutes in all weather, i find it odd that people think my brakes are notoriously bad. they stop great for me. oh well. spend your money as you will. i am old enough that i can get by with what i have for the next 40 years. i'll be 101 then and can quit worrying about the sheep following the corporations into 14 speed cassettes with hydraulic carpet fiber motorized bullhockey bikes.
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Old 12-05-17, 05:21 AM
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It really doesn't matter what GiTrekalized pushes down our throats. It's still up to us. It's rare that a brake caliper wears out so there will always be plenty of those. Stock up on rims with brake tracks and make sure you have lots of brake pads.
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Old 12-05-17, 05:28 AM
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Weather people like it or not, this is probably the future. Aqua Blue Sports 2018 team bike with discs and a 1x11. I personally have no problems with discs but I don't like the rear wheel dishing. The spoke tension is incredible. I expect road bikes will eventually go with a wider spacing so even the current disc frames will probably be obsolete.

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Old 12-05-17, 05:57 AM
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I firmly believe discs will take over entirely within a few years. Personally I like them just fine, they're a great technology, imo. When you really think about it, calipers grabbing the rim is a pretty primitive way to stop a bike, despite how good modern caliper brakes and have gotten at doing it.

And from a C&V POV, does it really matter? People with vintage bikes are still gonne be using older stuff anyway, stuff that was discontinued long ago. So I don't see the change making that much difference for people wanting to ride older bikes.

Editing to add: I suppose rims will be the great exception to my view on this. Better stock up.

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Old 12-05-17, 06:45 AM
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This is C&V. I doubt rim brakes will become obsolete here.
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Old 12-05-17, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
I'm looking forward to buying little-used high-end bikes that are cursed with rim brakes for next to nothing.
Completely agree. Remember all. There has to be a reason to sell you a bike for you to buy a bike. Itís only happened over and over and over again. Remember how awesome biopace was?
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Old 12-05-17, 08:08 AM
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As long as there are companies like Rivendell and Compass, rim brakes will still be around. They're becoming a niche product. I really don't care if 95% of the bikes sold nowadays have discs. I don't even care what's sold nowadays, since I have a good stock of vintage still that will last me the rest of my life, a torch and the skills to use them to build another one up from scratch.

Discs have a place in my quiver. My purpose-built gravel grinder has them. When you're going down a long, steep gravel road, there's nothing like them. I can brake without hand fatigue building up.

But I prefer simple, durable designs. Whatever tradeoff there is with more modern components is too small for me to accept most of the time.
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Old 12-05-17, 08:20 AM
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Why are we talking about "are rim brakes dead?" and (in another recent thread) "why do bar ends suck compared to brifters?"

This is the C&V forum, people. Screw obsolescence. We celebrate steel and all that comes with it, and this doesn't seem the place to ask when the reasons for this forum's existence will officially be "dead." Because around here I'm pretty sure the answer is "never." Isn't there a New Tech forum or something?

I'm gonna go find a pic of a rod-brake Raleigh now, just on general principle.



EDIT: *Relegated
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Old 12-05-17, 08:28 AM
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Relegated, not delegated.
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Old 12-05-17, 08:56 AM
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Disc brakes will -- or at least logically should -- render radial spoking obsolete, which is probably just as well. I was an early adopter (circa 1972) of radial front spokes, which I quickly abandoned when I cracked my first hub flange. Same goes for reduced spoke counts on the front wheel, since the brake torque up front will now exceed the windup torque at the rear.

For me, the only two arguments in favor of disc brakes are rim wear and rim overheating, both of which are indeed safety issues. I have heard of people melting glue and rolling their tubular tires off their rims on long descents, and I have heard of rim sidewalls failing due to brake-induced wear. (This is why I pump the rear brake to check my speed on a descent and use the front brake (both on wet pavement) for actually stopping.) Rim brakes are perfectly capable of applying maximum safe braking force.

My biggest argument against disc brakes is loss of universal interchangeability of components, which is my same argument against indexed shift and in particular against integrated brake/shift levers. C&V equipment affords delightful and endless opportunities for mix and [mis]match of components to suit one's needs, budget, desires, and luck of the hunt.
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Old 12-05-17, 09:02 AM
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Maybe I'm crazy...but I don't think disc brakes are that big of a deal. I like them just fine...but I don't see them as that much better than most rim brakes either. Maybe it's because I'm not riding on technical terrain.

Sort of like that post from the shifter thread...they stop the bike.
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Old 12-05-17, 09:05 AM
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Rim wear will not be missed, but they will be around for some time. Change is what is cool about old bikes. If they look the same/similar as modern they don't really stand out. Like the barcon discussion recently, they are not extinct, just much less common and still have a place.
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Old 12-05-17, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake
Maybe I'm crazy...but I don't think disc brakes are that big of a deal. I like them just fine...but I don't see them as that much better than most rim brakes either. Maybe it's because I'm not riding on technical terrain.

Sort of like that post from the shifter thread...they stop the bike.
That was my point, as well. Once you have enough braking force available to throw yourself over the front wheel, you do not need any more. What you do need is brakes you can easily and safely modulate for fastest safe deceleration.
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Old 12-05-17, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by John E
That was my point, as well. Once you have enough braking force available to throw yourself over the front wheel, you do not need any more. What you do need is brakes you can easily and safely modulate for fastest safe deceleration.
Dual front/single pivot rear...campy style...is my sweet spot on road bike braking. I have disc brakes on one bike...they're fine...good even. I don't think they're much preferable to dual/single.
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Old 12-05-17, 09:24 AM
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In a forum dedicated to both the obsolescent and the obsolete one might wait until at least Thursday before bemoaning the fate of Tuesday's hardware:

The Bicycle Life-cycle:

Monday: State of the Art
Tuesday: Obsolescent
Wednesday: Obsolete
Thursday: Old Junk
Friday: Classic
Saturday: Vintage
Sunday: Antique

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Old 12-05-17, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by exmechanic89
I firmly believe discs will take over entirely within a few years. Personally I like them just fine, they're a great technology, imo. When you really think about it, calipers grabbing the rim is a pretty primitive way to stop a bike, despite how good modern caliper brakes and have gotten at doing it.

And from a C&V POV, does it really matter? People with vintage bikes are still gonne be using older stuff anyway, stuff that was discontinued long ago. So I don't see the change making that much difference for people wanting to ride older bikes.

Editing to add: I suppose rims will be the great exception to my view on this. Better stock up.
Rim availability is my biggest concern out of all of this. I'm happy for all the folks riding the latest and greatest hardware, but there is a wide swath of C&V bikes that depend on replacement rims being available when theirs wear out, and if all the producers decide that there isn't any money in it anymore...
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Old 12-05-17, 09:50 AM
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I don't understand this rim wear thing. I've never worn any rims out with my brake pads, and I've never heard of anyone doing it, at least on a road bike. Now, suddenly it becomes a serious problem once disk brakes became the new thing the manufacturers are pushing?? It could happen if you get gravel stuck in the brake pads and leave it there, but the smart thing is to dig it out.

I'll buy that disk brakes are an improvement for MTBs that get ridden in the mud often. That's probably less than 10% of them in reality.
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Old 12-05-17, 10:10 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine
I don't understand this rim wear thing. I've never worn any rims out with my brake pads, and I've never heard of anyone doing it, at least on a road bike.
It's not a big issue in California where we have a fairly short and predictable rainy season during which most people don't ride much. But I've still worn out a few rims although here it takes me 50 - 70,000 miles to do it. Check with regular daily riders in Seattle and rim wear is a much bigger concern.
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Old 12-05-17, 10:14 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine
I don't understand this rim wear thing. I've never worn any rims out with my brake pads, and I've never heard of anyone doing it, at least on a road bike......
it's more of an issue when riding in wet conditions.
This is low of my list of concerns, since I don't ride much in the rain. The folks in Oregon and Washington talk more about it being a significant issue (based on what I see on the interwebs).

For southern California, it is probably as much of a concern as whether the bearing grease gets too stiff in freezing weather.


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