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Capo Sieger With Some History

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Capo Sieger With Some History

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Old 12-06-17, 09:42 PM
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obrentharris 
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Capo Sieger With Some History

This poor bike languished on Craigslist for several days while I waffled. After all it's too small for me and I prefer to work on bikes I can ride... and then there's the hideous paint. It was that last closer look at the brake detail that put me over the edge. Mafac Tigers! I've never seen a pair except in pictures.

Now it's mine in all its glory.



Did you catch a glimpse of the brand new cheapo brake levers with bonafide turkey levers attached? How about the cheesy "racing" saddle with ill-fitting shower cap cover? Allow me to treat you to a few close-up shots of the masterful repaint, recently applied, to increase curb appeal.










Notice the clever masking to preserve the decals on the fork blades and seat tube.



So Capo Sieger #42422 has suffered a bit of a makeover at the hands of some poor fellow who little realized that every step he took was lowering the value. Perhaps the hideous paint is why no one bought this bike before one painfully optimistic bicycle fool decided he had to bring it home with him.

But looking at the components and studying previous posts here by @John E and others I realized that this bike had a much earlier makeover as well. The 151BCD Record cranks, the Tiger brakes, the "Legnano" branded Record high flange hubs (with 1960 dating on the lock nuts), the 1958 Record pedals all seem to indicate that this bike was upgraded substantially in the first year or so of its existence.

And what about the missing "CAPO" lettering on the top tube? And who was "Young" and why does his name appear on the downtube? Was he an importer, a shop owner, or perhaps the first owner who wanted to personalize the bike?

Armed with paint thinner, lacquer thinner and a large pile of rags and q-tips I began the tedious process of removing the new paint while preserving the old. I had great success with the white paint and with removing the red paint from the chrome. The new red paint over the old red paint was another story. The old red paint was extremely fragile: I could find no technique that would remove the new without also removing the old.

I decided to leave the new red paint in place, try some touch-up work and sanding and polishing before resorting to more drastic measures.

In the process of removing the old white paint I found this interesting decal on the left chain stay.



Across the top appears to be the lettering "Marca Depose." Across the bottom is "Made in France." In the left and right corners are "T" and "B" respectively. I cannot make out what was written in the red center section. Did it originally say "Ideale?"


This is how it currently sits. I will do some more touch up and clean up to the red sections, some targeted rust removal and report back. In the meantime I welcome any and all advice, suggestions, and comments.



Brent
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Old 12-06-17, 10:46 PM
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Love it, you one crazy man, have fun!
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Old 12-07-17, 12:57 AM
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Welcome to the club! That's a lovely bike, even with the poor paint job. And it looks significantly better already with your efforts to bring forth the original paint and chrome. Looking forward to seeing your progress on this!

It sounds like you may have discovered this already, but yours appears to be a 1960 model. The stickers as well as the serial number seem to indicate as much. Some of those components are certainly a nice upgrade and rare in their own right, the crankset and brakes especially. Although it appears the original Ambrosio adjustable stem may have been removed? I'm not 100% certain if those were also stock on the 1960 models or only on the 59's. John may know more in that regard.

It's hard to tell from the photos, but is that a Record derailleur in the back? Or a Gran Sport? I believe the Gran Sport would be original spec, so that would be another nice upgrade if it is indeed a Record.
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Old 12-07-17, 05:48 AM
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Surprised that it has a full sloping crown without the ziggurat effect.

Will look forward to John's observations.
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Old 12-07-17, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
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Surprised that it has a full sloping crown without the ziggurat effect.

Will look forward to John's observations.
I think I see the stepped effect in one of the photos. It's amazing what paint can hide!
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Old 12-07-17, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by obrentharris View Post
...

In the process of removing the old white paint I found this interesting decal on the left chain stay.



Across the top appears to be the lettering "Marca Depose." Across the bottom is "Made in France." In the left and right corners are "T" and "B" respectively. I cannot make out what was written in the red center section. Did it originally say "Ideale?"
...
I'd say yes, for sure. Here's a reflective sticker with a similar shape:


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Old 12-07-17, 07:44 AM
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Fine detective work on the Tron et Berthet transfer gentlemen! Cannot recall seeing one of these afore.

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Old 12-07-17, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by WolfgangVerne View Post
...It's hard to tell from the photos, but is that a Record derailleur in the back? Or a Gran Sport? I believe the Gran Sport would be original spec, so that would be another nice upgrade if it is indeed a Record.
Thanks.
It is indeed a Gran Sport:



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Old 12-07-17, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
I think I see the stepped effect in one of the photos. It's amazing what paint can hide!
Rudi is correct. Lots of paint on that frame. I should have weighed it before and after paint removal!



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Old 12-07-17, 10:51 AM
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You should send the fork in to Andersens and have it plated...they can chrome it up nicely sure it will cost, but man that crown deserves to gleam.
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Old 12-07-17, 12:49 PM
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The original crankset would have been Agrati cottered steel, most likely with 52-48, or perhaps 52-46, rings.
Your freewheel, if it is a Caimi or a Regina, is probably original. I have seen Capos with 14-17-20-23-26 (your Sieger) and 14-16-18-20-22 (my Sieger and John Nelson's Modell Campagnolo).
The original brakeset was, of course, Weinmann Vainqueur 999, instead of the [email protected] that is on there.
Your Sieger and mine (see signature) are practically littermates, probably no more than a month or two apart, based on 5K units/year production (Harald "Harry Capo" Cap estimate) and sequential serial numbering. Since mine is pretty much all-original, I can help you with the component list, which included tubular tires.

The original red enamel on the head tube was indeed extremely fragile -- I went ahead and removed what was left of mine, with the plan to repaint just the head tube. My chrome isn't great, but it is tolerable.

Too bad someone got rid of the unique Capo seat post clamp. Yes, it's a bit ungainly, being made by simply bending an elongated oval around a bolt, but it is distinctive. Likewise the original under-the-top-tube cable clips. I hate them, but I have kept them on my Sieger, again because they are original.

The Ideale sticker is not surprising -- although my Sieger lacks one, it does have an Ideale saddle.

Do I see the diagonally-printed Reynolds 531 sticker at the top of your seat tube? As you can see, some clown covered mine with a bike license sticker. Lots of shops damaged 531 stickers on PX-10s and Capos by letting the frame slide down in the shop stand clamp, and then covered the evidence with either a bike shop or license sticker.
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Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324
Capo: 1960 Sieger, S/N 42624
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1981 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069

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Old 12-07-17, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by obrentharris View Post
Thanks.
It is indeed a Gran Sport:



Brent
Thanks for sharing, still a nice derailleur in it's own right and certainly original to the bike.

What size is your Sieger? Looks to be similar to mine, which if I recall correctly is about 21.5" ctc.
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Old 12-07-17, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by WolfgangVerne View Post
Thanks for sharing, still a nice derailleur in it's own right and certainly original to the bike.

What size is your Sieger? Looks to be similar to mine, which if I recall correctly is about 21.5" ctc.
Yes, same as mine -- 55cm C-T, which happily is just my size and the same size as my Bianchi and my Capo Modell Campagnolo. I have not seen ca. 1960 Capos in So. Cal. in any size other than 55 and 60.

I just noticed that your derailleur hanger/dropout has a hole, as though for a Simplex or similar spring-loaded derailleur. My MC does not have this, but it also doesn't have the brazed-on horseshoe-shaped trim piece which gives the stamped dropouts the functionality and look of forged dropouts (another Capo exclusive). I'll have to check the Sieger for a derailleur spring hole.
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Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324
Capo: 1960 Sieger, S/N 42624
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1981 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
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Old 12-07-17, 10:00 PM
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With that custom paint job it's the Capo di tutti Crappi.

It does have some interesting parts, though
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Old 12-08-17, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by John E View Post
The original crankset would have been Agrati cottered steel, most likely with 52-48, or perhaps 52-46, rings.
Your freewheel, if it is a Caimi or a Regina, is probably original. I have seen Capos with 14-17-20-23-26 (your Sieger) and 14-16-18-20-22 (my Sieger and John Nelson's Modell Campagnolo).
The original brakeset was, of course, Weinmann Vainqueur 999, instead of the [email protected] that is on there.
Your Sieger and mine (see signature) are practically littermates, probably no more than a month or two apart, based on 5K units/year production (Harald "Harry Capo" Cap estimate) and sequential serial numbering. Since mine is pretty much all-original, I can help you with the component list, which included tubular tires.

The original red enamel on the head tube was indeed extremely fragile -- I went ahead and removed what was left of mine, with the plan to repaint just the head tube. My chrome isn't great, but it is tolerable.

Too bad someone got rid of the unique Capo seat post clamp. Yes, it's a bit ungainly, being made by simply bending an elongated oval around a bolt, but it is distinctive. Likewise the original under-the-top-tube cable clips. I hate them, but I have kept them on my Sieger, again because they are original.

The Ideale sticker is not surprising -- although my Sieger lacks one, it does have an Ideale saddle.

Do I see the diagonally-printed Reynolds 531 sticker at the top of your seat tube? As you can see, some clown covered mine with a bike license sticker. Lots of shops damaged 531 stickers on PX-10s and Capos by letting the frame slide down in the shop stand clamp, and then covered the evidence with either a bike shop or license sticker.
Thanks for the detailed information John. Yes that is a diagonal 531 sticker, greatly faded, on the seat tube. The Agrati cups were still on the bike with a Campy record spindle installed. Alas the freewheel is not original, a Maeda "Perfect."

Here is a photo of the seat post clamp in question, still covered in a thick coat of sticky silver spray paint. It, along with several other parts, will take a trip through the paint remover can today.



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Old 12-08-17, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Lascauxcaveman View Post
With that custom paint job it's the Capo di tutti Crappi.

It does have some interesting parts, though
A homely paint job of the first degree! But I'm making some progress on it, restoring the wealth of patina that seems to be a hallmark of these old Capos.
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Old 12-08-17, 11:53 AM
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Mine appears to be the same size as yours, @WolfgangVerne , and John's, about 54.5 C to C. Alas, 59cm is about the smallest bike I can comfortably ride!
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Old 12-08-17, 12:11 PM
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Read a bit about Otto Cap. If the shop is still in business, as I read, that put's a smile on my face. The old survives thru the times.

Nice bike.
Have fun with the restoration, or whatever it ends up being.
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Old 12-08-17, 01:28 PM
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Do not recall this ends set. Have we discussed it previously? Wonder if it could be Agrati or possibly Albenburger. Agrati made several different ends sets which were unmarked.



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Old 12-08-17, 02:36 PM
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That seatube badge is one of the coolest things I have seen in a long time.
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Old 12-08-17, 06:48 PM
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I always wonder what kind of paint job one could produce using a floor mop. I now have a pretty good mental image. Could you show the Tiger brakes?
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Old 12-08-17, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by uncle uncle View Post
I always wonder what kind of paint job one could produce using a floor mop. I now have a pretty good mental image. Could you show the Tiger brakes?
Here they are in all their "floor mop" glory! They're actually cleaning up very nicely. I should have an "after" picture for you in a day or two.



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Old 12-08-17, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by obrentharris View Post


Brent
Thanks Brent... cool.
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Old 12-09-17, 04:48 PM
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Sweet old frame - worth saving alright, OP. . Yeah that re-paint was a horror story alright, lol.
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Old 12-09-17, 07:55 PM
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Interesting find,Brent. Looking forward to the final outcome!
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