Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Is this a Motobecane Grand Touring 1975/76?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Is this a Motobecane Grand Touring 1975/76?

Old 12-10-17, 07:28 AM
  #1  
TimMK
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 56

Bikes: Roadbikes: Gazelle Champion Mondial (1982), Gazelle Tour de l'Avenir (1977), Pinarello Gallileo (2009); Tandems: Gazelle Champion Mondial (1982), Gitane Mont d'Auvergne (1973), Trek T1000 (2002)

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Is this a Motobecane Grand Touring 1975/76?

Hi,

my latest project for a friend is shown below. Could it be a Motobecane Grand Touring? At least I found some pictures of bikes looking kind of like this type in a 1975 catalog. The frame is quite particular with the top tube starting as one fat tube an splitting up in two around the middle length. Everything was shiny and almost unused. I guess the bike lived in a garage until today and was almost never ridden.

Thanks,
Tim
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
Motobecane zerlegt.jpg (759.0 KB, 188 views)
TimMK is offline  
Old 12-10-17, 08:35 AM
  #2  
TireLever-07
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Malden, MA.
Posts: 402

Bikes: 2009 Masi, 2014 Specialized Crossroads 1975 Schwinn Unicycle

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
That's a *Mixie* style, woman's bike. The Grand touring was a drop bar road bike. Plenty of road bikes got converted to flat bars over the years. The Motobecane decals, type face helps dating the year. Later 1970s Motobecanes had a bolder, thicker letter decals. Kona was making a modern Mixie bike, but not like the 1970s & 80's when they were everywhere. cheers
TireLever-07 is offline  
Old 12-10-17, 10:00 AM
  #3  
Roger M 
Senior Member
 
Roger M's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Snohomish, WA.
Posts: 2,749
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 374 Post(s)
Liked 1,517 Times in 448 Posts
Motobecane did make the Grand touring in a mixte frame(I had a 1973 mixte GT). I think the grand touring models had chrome on the fork legs?
Roger M is offline  
Old 12-10-17, 10:06 AM
  #4  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 20,555

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 292 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23325 Post(s)
Liked 6,751 Times in 4,835 Posts
.
...in the mid 70's, Motobecane was using cotterless cranks on anything as upscale as a Grand Touring.

It's some other level mixte frame, of which they marketed a few. Those frame dropouts will be different from the picture of the GT you found as well.
3alarmer is offline  
Old 12-10-17, 10:54 AM
  #5  
CV-6 
If I own it, I ride it
 
CV-6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cardinal Country
Posts: 5,450

Bikes: Lejeune(14), Raleigh, Raysport, Jan De Reus, Gazelle, Masi, B. Carré(4), Springfield, Motobecane(2), Greg Lemond, Andre Bertin, Schwinn Paramount

Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 546 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 490 Times in 240 Posts
Originally Posted by TireLever-07 View Post
That's a *Mixie* style, woman's bike. The Grand touring was a drop bar road bike. Plenty of road bikes got converted to flat bars over the years. The Motobecane decals, type face helps dating the year. Later 1970s Motobecanes had a bolder, thicker letter decals. Kona was making a modern Mixie bike, but not like the 1970s & 80's when they were everywhere. cheers

That is Mixte, not Mixie. It is not necessarily a woman's bicycle and literally translates as mixed or unisex.

That frame is not your usual mixte. Note you have the "top tube" starting as a regular tube and then it stops partway down and the stays are brazed in into the end. More common is the two stays running up to the head tube. Appears to have forged dropouts.

The rear derailleur needs attention.
__________________
Please do not "like" my posts. This isn't Facebook.

Lynn Travers

Photos


Last edited by CV-6; 12-10-17 at 10:59 AM.
CV-6 is offline  
Old 12-10-17, 11:10 AM
  #6  
verktyg 
verktyg
 
verktyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,942

Bikes: Current favorites: 1988 Peugeot Birraritz, 1984 Gitane Super Corsa, 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo, 1992 Paramount OS, 1990 Bianchi Mondiale, 1988 Colnago Technos, 1985 RalieghUSA Team Pro, 1973 Holdsworth

Mentioned: 195 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 992 Post(s)
Liked 1,043 Times in 580 Posts
Originally Posted by TimMK View Post
Hi,my latest project for a friend is shown below. Could it be a Motobecane Grand Touring? At least I found some pictures of bikes looking kind of like this type in a 1975 catalog. The frame is quite particular with the top tube starting as one fat tube an splitting up in two around the middle length. Everything was shiny and almost unused. I guess the bike lived in a garage until today and was almost never ridden.

Thanks,
Tim
Motobecane started using the "high water mark" horizontal stripe decals on the seat and down tubes in 1977. The Grand Touring models from the late 70's used Vitus 172 main tubes with standard Motobecane carbon steel forks and stays.

They made this style mixte frame for a number of years during that era. It might be the Sprintour model with a standard carbon steel frame.

Because of the upright bars, cottered steel cranks and Huret derailleurs rather than Suntour it might be a European model.

Chas.
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....

Chas. ;-)

verktyg is offline  
Old 12-10-17, 11:18 AM
  #7  
verktyg 
verktyg
 
verktyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,942

Bikes: Current favorites: 1988 Peugeot Birraritz, 1984 Gitane Super Corsa, 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo, 1992 Paramount OS, 1990 Bianchi Mondiale, 1988 Colnago Technos, 1985 RalieghUSA Team Pro, 1973 Holdsworth

Mentioned: 195 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 992 Post(s)
Liked 1,043 Times in 580 Posts
Originally Posted by CV-6 View Post
That is Mixte, not Mixie. It is not necessarily a woman's bicycle and literally translates as mixed or unisex.

That frame is not your usual mixte. Note you have the "top tube" starting as a regular tube and then it stops partway down and the stays are brazed in into the end. More common is the two stays running up to the head tube. Appears to have forged dropouts.

The rear derailleur needs attention.
Lynn, supposedly the mixte design was developed for the French army - one size fits all and they were easy to get on and off with military gear.

If you look closely the head tube is not lugged. It has pseudo lugs rolled into it with internal spuds that the tubes fit over. The whole design of the frame was a lot easier to manufacturer.

The dropouts look to be forged but they're stamped steel.

Chas.
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....

Chas. ;-)

verktyg is offline  
Old 12-10-17, 12:13 PM
  #8  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 22,764
Mentioned: 605 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4486 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2,564 Times in 1,626 Posts
It would appear to be an entry level European city bike based on the steel cottered crankset, generator tab and kickstand plate. Despite the integral derailleur hanger, the dropouts appear to be stamped, 3D versions.

Edit: It looks a lot like this French market 1983 Motobecane DM 21. Lugless Inexternal brazing with a Motobecane brand should place it 1983-1984, unless European models were using Inexternal brazing earlier than the USA models.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
Motobecane fraNCE 1983a.JPG (89.3 KB, 124 views)

Last edited by T-Mar; 12-10-17 at 12:40 PM.
T-Mar is offline  
Old 12-11-17, 06:35 AM
  #9  
TimMK
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 56

Bikes: Roadbikes: Gazelle Champion Mondial (1982), Gazelle Tour de l'Avenir (1977), Pinarello Gallileo (2009); Tandems: Gazelle Champion Mondial (1982), Gitane Mont d'Auvergne (1973), Trek T1000 (2002)

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanks for all the answers! I will quickly go through them:

1) I live in Germany and bought the bike in the Netherlands, so it's very likeley to be a European model

2) The lugs on the head tube really are a bit strange. Their surface kind of transitions very smoothly into the head tube. They don't have the usual steps like normal lugs.

3) The dopouts are definately not forged.

The 1983 DM12 looks quite like it, but there are several frames with the caracteristic of the splitting top tube.

I tried to date the Huret drailleur but it seems this type was built over a period of 10 years?

I could not find any frame number, so I've made a few additional pictures:

Sorry, I somehow cannot upload any images, since a "security token is missing", whatever that means...

Last edited by TimMK; 12-11-17 at 02:02 PM. Reason: missing pics
TimMK is offline  
Old 12-11-17, 07:49 AM
  #10  
verktyg 
verktyg
 
verktyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,942

Bikes: Current favorites: 1988 Peugeot Birraritz, 1984 Gitane Super Corsa, 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo, 1992 Paramount OS, 1990 Bianchi Mondiale, 1988 Colnago Technos, 1985 RalieghUSA Team Pro, 1973 Holdsworth

Mentioned: 195 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 992 Post(s)
Liked 1,043 Times in 580 Posts
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
It would appear to be an entry level European city bike based on the steel cottered crankset, generator tab and kickstand plate. Despite the integral derailleur hanger, the dropouts appear to be stamped, 3D versions.

Edit: It looks a lot like this French market 1983 Motobecane DM 21. Lugless Inexternal brazing with a Motobecane brand should place it 1983-1984, unless European models were using Inexternal brazing earlier than the USA models.
T-Mar,

I think you nailed it. I don't have any French Moto catalogs, only US, UK and German. Where did you find the French info?

Motobecane, Peugeot and Gitane all switched to lugless frames on their entry level to lower mid range models in the early 80's. They used "preforms" - brazing material rings inside and outside the tubing with automated heating instead of hand brazing.

When properly done the results work well.

The reduced manufacturing costs allowed those French companies to survive a little longer against the onslaught of lower priced bikes from Taiwan.

The marketing department hype billed this as a revolutionary technology but the process was in use for manufacturing products made of tubing for decades.

Chas.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
MotobecaneFiletBrazing.jpg (25.1 KB, 91 views)
File Type: jpg
File Type: jpg
PeugeotInternalBrazing.jpg (1.02 MB, 91 views)
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....

Chas. ;-)


Last edited by verktyg; 12-11-17 at 07:56 AM.
verktyg is offline  
Old 12-11-17, 09:09 AM
  #11  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 22,764
Mentioned: 605 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4486 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2,564 Times in 1,626 Posts
Originally Posted by verktyg View Post
T-Mar,

I think you nailed it. I don't have any French Moto catalogs, only US, UK and German. Where did you find the French info?...
Sorry, I don't recall where I got it. I've found maybe a handful of French Motobecane catalogues but they were all random sites. I've never found a collection of French Motobecane catalogues on one site.

Unfortunately, the image isn't of sufficient resolution to positively identify the components. However, the frame does have the same features (i.e. wishbone top tube, generator mount, rack eyelets on the upper stays). The only other model with the wishbone top tube in the catalogue was a higher model and it didn't have the generator tab or stay eyelets.

Of course, it could be a different model depending on the market and year. I don't know how much model variation there was between European countries for Motobecane. Still, we should be looking at a relatively small window of time. Inexternal brazing was introduced in 1982 (1983 in my previous post was a typo). While it's possible that the process was introduced earlier in Europe, I think this would be unlikely. Based on my research, the Motobecane name was dropped in favour of MBK for 1985, with only some early 1985 models being labeled Motobecane. So, while it may not be a DM21 due to market or year variation, it is the closest I have to offer.

Last edited by T-Mar; 12-11-17 at 09:14 AM.
T-Mar is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Doooombringer
Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals.
7
05-01-16 04:18 AM
IrepairBikes
Road Cycling
6
06-09-15 05:43 PM
gstep51
Classic & Vintage
0
04-29-15 10:57 AM
LegsBenedict
Classic & Vintage
7
08-21-11 07:57 PM
fender1
Classic & Vintage
14
04-13-10 10:24 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.