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Classic Klein pressfit bearing extraction question

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Classic Klein pressfit bearing extraction question

Old 01-07-18, 07:50 AM
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Classic Klein pressfit bearing extraction question

So iím quite excited about my 1989-ish Klein Quantum frame that I got from eBay last week for $61+ $22 shipping. $83 is not bad for a desirable size 57 without fork. I immediately acquired a nice threadless Ritchey 1Ē NOS fork for it that was $108.50 + $18 shipping ($126.50 total and like the 3rd or 4th time I spent more for the fork than the fame. Iím OK with all of this.
So this frame has the press in bottom bracket bearings with square taper spindle. I know I want to fit a Phil Wood external Shimano hollow 24mm bore bottom bracket on there.
I do not have the rare Klein bb extraction tools. Iíve been talking to several LBSís about this removal challenge. I went ahead yesterday and knocked the spindle out. No damage done to spindle or bottom bracket shell. So now remaking are the bearings. They didnít budge when the shoulderless spindle was knocked out.
Can someone recommend to me the right size of sealed bearing extractor to allow me to drive out the 35 mm OD bearings without damaging anything?
Hanks a bunch!
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Old 01-07-18, 10:04 AM
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Perhaps this might help:

https://www.mtb-kataloge.de/Bikekatal..._manuals96.pdf
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Old 01-07-18, 12:16 PM
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That manual is completely insane, expecting bike shop personnel to carry out what amounts to a complicated machine shop assembly.


Good, very good thing that every bike I've had with a pressed bb came with good usable bb bearings, bearings that are over-rated in size though perhaps not so well shielded.


In the event that I needed to ever replace such bearings, I would use my own methods including adjusting the finish on the spindle to achieve a sufficiently-light press-fit into the bearings so as to permit driving the spindle into already-installed bearings. Loctite and soft (copper or plastic) sleeves sized to cover the exposed lengths of the spindle would have to suffice and would be fully sufficient to prevent any drifting of the spindle's position relative to the bb shell.


Has anyone noticed if any of these smooth 17mm spindles turn up with much regularity on Ebay?
They are a rather pricy item if sourced from Phil, though might be well worth it for someone in need of a particular length that their bike didn't come with, or for someone who doesn't want to ride on a Viscount or Suntour bb spindle with grooves cut into it.
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Old 01-07-18, 02:11 PM
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Just put a punch through the spindle hole of the opposite bearing and knock them out. Even if the bearing comes apart, that's okay because it makes a bigger hole to access the outer race on the opposite side. Bearing removal was always a destructive process with pressed in bearings.

Liquid Wrench or other penetrant may help.

That manual is completely insane, expecting bike shop personnel to carry out what amounts to a complicated machine shop assembly.
Bike shop personnel do plenty of assemblies just as complicated. And you can do it with ad hoc tools. I rebuilt a more complicated Merlin press fit at the shop.
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Old 01-07-18, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by masi61
So iím quite excited about my 1989-ish Klein Quantum frame that I got from eBay last week for $61+ $22 shipping. $83 is not bad for a desirable size 57 without fork. I immediately acquired a nice threadless Ritchey 1Ē NOS fork for it that was $108.50 + $18 shipping ($126.50 total and like the 3rd or 4th time I spent more for the fork than the fame. Iím OK with all of this.
...
Off topic, no help but your purchase reminds me of my most fun bike project. I went to an "as is" sale by a local shop I had volunteered at and purchased several used frames from, looking for a good frame to be a fun, light road fix gear; something I have always wanted but never had. Bikes were priced from $40 down to $20. The deal was - not test ride allowed, no return. The only possible bike was a sport Peugeot, 501 tubing, hit hard by an SUV from the side with real damage but the tape measure said it would work for my fit. Headset and crankset were the only savable parts. Paid $20. $25 for a fork. Another $85, wheels, cockpit and seat I had ind it was rideable after straightening the rear end. What a blast! Two weeks later I saw the both chainstays were about to break. A crap of unidirectional carbon fiber, some boatbuilding epoxy, some old boatbuilding skills and a creative innertube bag (kinda like a vacuum bag) and the BB and chainstays were stiffer and stronger than new.

Now the fun part - money! $105 spent so far. But in a month I knew the seat had to go. $120 for my go to Terry Fly. My custom ti bike was on order whole all this was happening. It was going to get a fork paint in the color I have always wanted for a bike - fire engine red. THis fix gear wanted to be the same color. So, a few months later, I spent $250 for a gorgeous flaming red paint job for a bike that had $230 invested in it total.

Worth it? H*** yes! I retired the bike at 8000 miles, but by then I had my next custom another ti bike, but this time a fix gear inspired completely by that ride. Those two bikes are the most fun bikes I have ever owned.

I have a soft spot for Kleins. They absolutely don't work for this skinny, light climber but I took a spin one of the very early ones , Gary Klein's personal bike at a club race, 1977. In 100 yards, I knew that bike was going to change everything.

Ben
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Old 01-07-18, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by dddd
That manual is completely insane, expecting bike shop personnel to carry out what amounts to a complicated machine shop assembly.


Good, very good thing that every bike I've had with a pressed bb came with good usable bb bearings, bearings that are over-rated in size though perhaps not so well shielded.


In the event that I needed to ever replace such bearings, I would use my own methods including adjusting the finish on the spindle to achieve a sufficiently-light press-fit into the bearings so as to permit driving the spindle into already-installed bearings. Loctite and soft (copper or plastic) sleeves sized to cover the exposed lengths of the spindle would have to suffice and would be fully sufficient to prevent any drifting of the spindle's position relative to the bb shell.


Has anyone noticed if any of these smooth 17mm spindles turn up with much regularity on Ebay?
They are a rather pricy item if sourced from Phil, though might be well worth it for someone in need of a particular length that their bike didn't come with, or for someone who doesn't want to ride on a Viscount or Suntour bb spindle with grooves cut into it.
I've rarely ever seen any on eBay. I'll save mine, it is 119mm.
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Old 01-07-18, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
thanks for the link. Since I'm not planning on re-using my bb, just NOT damaging it is my goal as I remove it. Their procedure is kind of convoluted sounding but I imagine if you had the tool in front of you, then the steps would register more. As far as their rendition of the removal procedure, the instructions talked about pulling the bottom bracket as one unit (!)now this I would like to see. It seems that the big 8mm screw with wing nut extractor system would pull a bearing off at a time and would have to be switched to the opposite side of the bb shell once the first bearing was pulled out.
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Old 01-07-18, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by masi61
thanks for the link. Since I'm not planning on re-using my bb, just NOT damaging it is my goal as I remove it. Their procedure is kind of convoluted sounding but I imagine if you had the tool in front of you, then the steps would register more. As far as their rendition of the removal procedure, the instructions talked about pulling the bottom bracket as one unit (!)now this I would like to see. It seems that the big 8mm screw with wing nut extractor system would pull a bearing off at a time and would have to be switched to the opposite side of the bb shell once the first bearing was pulled out.
To be clear, you don't have a "BB" in the traditional sense. You have a reusable spindle and two disposable bearings that are designed to be pressed once and thrown out if removed. A pair of those bearings is $18.
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Old 01-07-18, 04:27 PM
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The Klein manual was a most impressive document though, ultra-inclusive of all of their frames dimensions and construction details. A Klein bike geek's dream manual.

Unbelievable!

The mere pretension that this manual would be put to good use serves to put their dealer base on a pedestal.

And I agree that there are some shops that could do it's existance some justice, though I might expect that performing the bb replacement service would be pretty goshdarn costly and that some 1990's Trek dealers might not have been the kind of place where I would want to get this kind of work done.

And speaking of Kleins in general, I am highly impressed by the artistic side of the equation, so much so that I applied the N+1 clause a coupe of years ago when I spotted this example being sold at the local consignment dealer's shop. The photo here hardly does the paint's radiance justice!

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Old 01-07-18, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
In 100 yards, I knew that bike was going to change everything.
Why did you think that and what were your impressions of the bike?
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Old 01-07-18, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by dddd
The Klein manual was a most impressive document though, ultra-inclusive of all of their frames dimensions and construction details. A Klein bike geek's dream manual.

Unbelievable!

The mere pretension that this manual would be put to good use serves to put their dealer base on a pedestal.

And I agree that there are some shops that could do it's existance some justice, though I might expect that performing the bb replacement service would be pretty goshdarn costly and that some 1990's Trek dealers might not have been the kind of place where I would want to get this kind of work done.

And speaking of Kleins in general, I am highly impressed by the artistic side of the equation, so much so that I applied the N+1 clause a coupe of years ago when I spotted this example being sold at the local consignment dealer's shop. The photo here hardly does the paint's radiance justice!

Crazy long chainstays on an otherwise racing bike frame.
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Old 01-08-18, 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Crazy long chainstays on an otherwise racing bike frame.


One interesting thing about this bike, and which made my purchase more compelling, was that I remember reading a test of this model back in the day. The report mentioned a racer who preferred this long but steep geometry to the pure racing version.
So having never so much as ridden a bike with similar geometry, I remained curious all of these years.
I generally don't have issues with ride quality, so any comfort derived wouldn't be much of an issue, but longer stays would put more weight on the front wheel, as would my relatively forward positioning of saddle atop the 74.5-degree seattube (headtube angle is 73.5).
So predictably it is plenty stable, nothing bad to say about it at all and it goes around corners with little effort.
It is sprightly on steep climbs so I guess it's added rear stiffness is doing a good job making up for the long chainstays.
Oh, and the steel fork with flat-top crown, so much easier on the eyes than the Litage forks!
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Old 01-08-18, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by dddd
The Klein manual was a most impressive document though, ultra-inclusive of all of their frames dimensions and construction details. A Klein bike geek's dream manual.

Unbelievable!

The mere pretension that this manual would be put to good use serves to put their dealer base on a pedestal.

And I agree that there are some shops that could do it's existance some justice, though I might expect that performing the bb replacement service would be pretty goshdarn costly and that some 1990's Trek dealers might not have been the kind of place where I would want to get this kind of work done.

And speaking of Kleins in general, I am highly impressed by the artistic side of the equation, so much so that I applied the N+1 clause a coupe of years ago when I spotted this example being sold at the local consignment dealer's shop. The photo here hardly does the paint's radiance justice!

Yours appears to be the version that was later called the ďPerformanceĒ.
I did notice in the manual that the quantum 2 was almost a pound lighter than the regular quantum.
Mine is the regular Quantum with straight tubing. It seems really OVERbuilt! I already have a Cannondale CAAD3 with the straight seat stays. This has a reputation of being one of the stiffest Cannondales ever. If I were to guess I would say This Klein might even be stiffer still with that 76 mm wide bottom bracket shell & ridiculous thick seat & chainstays.
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