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How to keep a freewheel safe after soaking it in water.

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How to keep a freewheel safe after soaking it in water.

Old 01-18-18, 08:07 PM
  #126  
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This is the Energizer Bunny of freewheel threads. It's going to be up there with "For Love of English Three Speeds" someday.
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Old 01-19-18, 07:51 AM
  #127  
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In order to help keep this thread "energized" (great analogy @jonwvara), I present a case study in how the "flush and dribble" method will never work on a Sachs Aris freewheel, which utilizes red plastic bearing cages which double as seals.

The day I returned @polymorphself 's Perfect, I received Sasha's Sachs Aris 7 speed corncob.



Not too bad looking as far as external dirt and grime is concerned, but the spin was not unlike a spoon stirring a jar of peanut butter. A quick inspection of the rear and one might wonder were is the red bearing cage seal?



When the freewheel is opened up, the sticky culprit is revealed.




There is really no grit or foreign material on the inside, just old contaminated, sticky, ineffective grease. Sasha was convinced it needed new bearings, pawls and springs. But all it really needed was a proper cleaning and new grease. It goes back together today for return. The cleaned parts.



Back together.


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Old 01-19-18, 11:24 AM
  #128  
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That's a thing of beauty. Long live the freewheel thread!
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Old 01-19-18, 01:31 PM
  #129  
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Ssince no one else has mentioned it, If you flood the interior with high purity Rubbing alcohol the Alcohol is hydroscopic and should absorb any remaining water. Then drain the alcohol and flood with wd40 , drain and flood with something like 3 in 1 20 wt motor oil which you may have to order. It is a light weight non detergent oil specifically to lubricate electric motors and is a good weight to lube the internals. I also use it to lube sturmey archer 3 speed hubs.

I have tons of old freewheels and they almost never fail. When I get an old crusty one I use wd40 and a stiff brush to cleen off the exterior then dribble some 3 in 1 20 wt into the interior through the front and rear and spin. Works almost every time.

As to color the Perfect fw is generaly silver colored and the Pro Comp Gold - but not always.
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Old 01-20-18, 05:43 AM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
Modern cogs are thinner than vintage cogs, to accommodate the profusion of cogs customers have come to expect. With less material to carry the load, they wear faster.
John, if the cog material is identical in the two cases, your logic is perfect. But, free wheels today seem amazingly light to me in some cases. Lighter gears as well as narrower load-bearing surfaces?

I guess the designs are also significantly different.
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Old 01-20-18, 08:15 AM
  #131  
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@Road Fan, in the few modern freewheels I can service, internally there is basically no difference mechanically from 1980s Shimano, Sachs, Suntour Winner Pro, and Regina freewheels.

Now with that said, I need to admit failure in opening up any Sunrace or IRD freewheels. The retaining ring/outer bearing race will either not budge or the smallest sprocket cannot be removed, thus blocking access to the retaining ring. In some cases a special tool is needed, and I've not been able to locate a source for the tool and have not invested in the cost to have one made.

The weight reduction you notice is in the thickness of the sprockets (as mentioned by @JohnDThompson) and also the amount of material removed from between the body opening and the teeth on the sprocket. Older sprocket manufacturers seemed to be more conservative with the amount of material which was removed, IMO.

For this reason I've been able to warp while riding a few Shimano Mega Range largest sprockets on 6 and 7 speed freewheels.
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Old 01-20-18, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
@Road Fan, in the few modern freewheels I can service, internally there is basically no difference mechanically from 1980s Shimano, Sachs, Suntour Winner Pro, and Regina freewheels.

Now with that said, I need to admit failure in opening up any Sunrace or IRD freewheels. The retaining ring/outer bearing race will either not budge or the smallest sprocket cannot be removed, thus blocking access to the retaining ring. In some cases a special tool is needed, and I've not been able to locate a source for the tool and have not invested in the cost to have one made.
...
Having commented earlier about having had success with the flush and fill method on a Suntour Perfect, this thread inspired me to go ahead ad do a full overhaul on it. I had to make a 2 pronged removal tool out of an old socket since I didn't have one. Everything looked good inside, no grit but some dirty grease remained. Cleaned it all up with acetone and a toothbrush and reasembled with some waterproof grease. It should be better than NOS now with the fresh grease. It was actually an enjoyable task. Here it is back in place.

Bianchi rear mech.jpg
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Old 01-20-18, 01:23 PM
  #133  
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Suntour freewheel tool.jpg
And a pic of the DIY removal tool fashioned from an old 19mm socket.
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Old 01-20-18, 02:45 PM
  #134  
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@IrishBrewer, Well done!
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Old 01-20-18, 02:55 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by IrishBrewer
Attachment 596258
And a pic of the DIY removal tool fashioned from an old 19mm socket.
Now that's inventive, if not cost effective. I think a two-prong Suntour remover costs maybe $8. What does a 19mm socket cost?
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Old 01-20-18, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jonwvara
Now that's inventive, if not cost effective. I think a two-prong Suntour remover costs maybe $8. What does a 19mm socket cost?
I just got a bug to get into it today so it was more a matter of what I could cobble together in 10 minutes with what I had on hand. BTW, my local surplus store sells old used sockets of odd sizes for fifty cents all day but I didn't even feel like getting in the car for that as I had spares on hand.

@PastorBob, what kind of tool do you need? I'd be glad to help if it's something I'm capable of.
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Old 01-20-18, 05:29 PM
  #137  
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And rightfully so imho, the lowly freewheel is the energizer bunny of bike parts. I have never failed to revive one with some sort of flush and fill method. Current flushing agent of choice is Marvel Mystery oil. Had a Suntour a while back that hat almost did not move, soaked in MM for a couple of days, got it going, flushed out and relube with 50w and it is one of the sweetest sounding and running now has about 1k mi. As I posted earlier, freewheels are easily one of if not the toughest components we have.

PS, not advocating my method, just taking the easy way out as I have a pile of these and have never had to scrap one, hence the pile.


Originally Posted by jonwvara
This is the Energizer Bunny of freewheel threads. It's going to be up there with "For Love of English Three Speeds" someday.
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Old 01-20-18, 06:14 PM
  #138  
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@IrishBrewer, this is a nice job on the two prong remover, it will probably last much longer than any of the old VAR tools. My problem with the Regina two prong is not in the VAR tool's prong hardness, its the slots on the body that get torn up easily. Tool grade steel in sockets will easily overpower the metal in the freewheel's body. There was a good discussion about the two prong type freewheels here a while back, someone had the whole gouge on the switch away from that type, to the four prong and splined bodies.

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Old 01-20-18, 06:53 PM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by IrishBrewer
Attachment 596258
And a pic of the DIY removal tool fashioned from an old 19mm socket.
So cool. If I had the skill and or tools to make my own I'd do it too. Great job!
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Old 01-20-18, 07:14 PM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by IrishBrewer
@pastorbobnlnh, what kind of tool do you need? I'd be glad to help if it's something I'm capable of.
That is so kind of you to offer! Thank you!

The IRD and the Sunrace freewheels have different lockrings which hold the smallest sprocket to the body. I would need to send them to you in order to make them fit. Probably best to take pictures and post first. I'll try to do so in the next day or two.
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Old 01-21-18, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
That is so kind of you to offer! Thank you!

The IRD and the Sunrace freewheels have different lockrings which hold the smallest sprocket to the body. I would need to send them to you in order to make them fit. Probably best to take pictures and post first. I'll try to do so in the next day or two.
Pics would be great as would some measurements like outside diameter and width and depth of the prongs.

Also, wanted to ask what type(s) of lubricants you use after cleaning up the internals and putting them back together.
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Old 01-21-18, 04:41 PM
  #142  
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Every time I see the title of this thread I think:

How you keep a FW safe after it's been in water?...

A Shimano FW, a Suntour FW, and a Campy FW walk into a bar...

What do you call a FW that been immersed in water?...

I don't know the answer to any of these questions. Do you?
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Old 01-21-18, 04:45 PM
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You must have made a lot of metal filings making that tool. But yes, very impressive!
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Old 01-21-18, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider
You must have made a lot of metal filings making that tool. But yes, very impressive!
Well, in the form of iron oxide dust. It was done entirely with a 4.5 inch angle grinder with a cutting disc. Didn't even break out a file. Fits surprisingly well for a quick hack job.
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Old 01-22-18, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by jimmuller
Every time I see the title of this thread I think:

How you keep a FW safe after it's been in water?...

A Shimano FW, a Suntour FW, and a Campy FW walk into a bar...

What do you call a FW that been immersed in water?...

I don't know the answer to any of these questions. Do you?
"What do you call a FW that's been immersed in water?"

Baptized.

The joke actually goes like this:

Suntour ProCompe and Shimano DuraAce freewheels walk into a crowded bar together.

At one end of the bar they see Campagnolo Nuevo Record rear derailleur sitting all alone, obviously forlorn and heart broken.

The ProCompe nudges the sprocket of the DuraAce and asks; "What's wrong with the RD at the end of the bar?"

DuraAce immediately responds; "Oh! I guess you didn't hear! Regina dumped him!"
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Last edited by pastorbobnlnh; 01-22-18 at 05:32 AM.
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Old 02-25-18, 01:10 AM
  #146  
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I have a 1983 Shimano 333 single speed hub and there are no prongs for disassembly any Ideas on how to open one of these? I have two to service

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Old 02-25-18, 04:13 AM
  #147  
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@kc0yef, I've never seen nor worked on one, so this is only a guess.

On the bottom photo looking at the outside, do you notice the small notches (or are they raised bumps?) near the "M", "F" and "H" near the bottom? I'm assuming there is a fourth one 180 degrees from the one near the "H". Try grabbing at least two opposite ones and turning that ring clockwise to loosen. Be careful, especially if you suspect it is plastic (my guess) and acts as a seal.

Once removed (it might be the retaining ring/outer bearing race) you should see the outer bearings (if metal), or another metal ring (if plastic). Hopefully this helps. Additional pictures posted might prove helpful.
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Old 02-25-18, 03:28 PM
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It is Plastic very hard... and That is the same thought I had so it is now my assumption as well. This one is sacrificial if need be to lean, I might just try to drill into that plastic ring to make a more sturdy contact point and then use a pin spanner... I can always fill the holes later...we'll see. Thanky ou for your thought apparently these are some kinda rare 1980's BMX hub that people really want but I am not sure if they use em but they are expensive on the auction site...

Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
@kc0yef, this is only a guess.

turn... that ring clockwise to loosen. Be careful, especially if you suspect it is plastic (my guess) and acts as a seal.

Once removed (it might be the retaining ring/outer bearing race) you should see the outer bearings (if metal), or another metal ring (if plastic). Hopefully this helps. Additional pictures posted might prove helpful.
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