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Keep it or upgrade?

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Old 01-11-18, 12:45 PM
  #26  
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If you're new to this, some of the more valuable "upgrades" to an older bike may not be obvious; many may consider some of these are necessary:

- Overhaul bottom bracket, wheel hubs, headset, pedals. Clean, adjust, new grease
- Adjust seat height/angle/horizontal; adjust handlebar height, brake lever position. Change seat, handlebar, seat post, stem if any of these components would improve fit
- New brake pads, cables, housing. Make any adjustments necessary
- True wheels and check for correct spoke tension
- New tires, new rim tape
- If it's old/worn, get a new chain
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Old 01-11-18, 12:47 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by phtomita View Post
I just got a 1985 (per serial number, but 1986 from some thread I read here) Nishiki Tri-A that has pretty much all original - will post photos on other thread - and originally was thinking on rebuilding it for the nice frame.
Bike is very nice and I like it - but but ....
Ride it. Try to identify its shortcomings, and try to distinguish the bike's shortcomings from your unfamiliarity with it.

If your feet hurt after a hundred mile ride, and you decide pedals with cages and straps don't agree with your shoes, change the pedals. That's an easy fix and a lot of riders consider it a bare minimum upgrade. Same with the saddle: if it doesn't work out for you, change it. And dial in the fit; you may need a longer or shorter stem, for example.

On the other hand, if you don't like the downtube shifters, I'd give that a few hundred miles at a minimum. Get used to down tube shifting before making any rash decisions. Switching to integrated shifters is expensive and, in my opinion, is not an upgrade anyway.
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Old 01-11-18, 01:05 PM
  #28  
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N+1, buy an additional new bike ..
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Old 01-11-18, 08:49 PM
  #29  
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Uploaded some photos here
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...shiki-tri.html
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Old 01-11-18, 10:31 PM
  #30  
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Looks good to me. I still think pedals plus tires, tape, consumables is all you need.


Originally Posted by rhm View Post
On the other hand, if you don't like the downtube shifters, I'd give that a few hundred miles at a minimum. Get used to down tube shifting before making any rash decisions. Switching to integrated shifters is expensive and, in my opinion, is not an upgrade anyway.
I tend to miss this, having been raised on DT shifters. When people say "upgrade", it appears that oftentimes all they want is modern shifters/brifters that they feel comfortable with. If that's the case, yeah, I'd agree with the above advice. Give the DT shifters a chance for a time. You will likely get comfortable with them. If you really don't like them, then consider swapping in brifters. Anyway, no reason not to ride it as is to get an idea of the bike before throwing money at it.

Given this bike is 600 equipped as is, meaning nice 'groupset' already. Most likely by upgrade we are talking cross grade at most. If you have a box full of modern parts fine, but to refit the bike from scratch you'd be looking at an ultegra group, set of wheels, and a frame realignment. I figure that cost at least $1200+ if bought new from online retailers, not including labor.
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Old 01-12-18, 03:45 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by phtomita View Post
Now that I see the photos, I haven't changed my mind. Nice bike if it fits. If you are riding clipless pedals on your Tommasso, put those pedals on the Nishiki and ride it as is.
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Old 01-12-18, 04:33 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by fender1 View Post
What most people do here (myself included) is spend as much as possible on "upgrades" of "period correct" or "modern" components, take lots of pictures, post about how it is the only bike you will ever want/need to justify the expenditure, ride it less than 100 miles total and then decide you want a different bike.

Next, try to sell the current bike (at not too much of a loss) to "raise cash" for a "new, grail bike" that just came up for sale and that you have NEVER seen for sale previously.....conveniently forget you were not LOOKING previously, but I digress..

Wash, rinse and repeat until you realize you can only ride one at a time and that you will always be in the "hole" and that y ou are looking for the next bike/upgrade because that is a large part of the fun.

Physical exercise is generally less enjoyable than buying stuff and talking about it on the internet.
Shhhhhh! You are giving away all of our secrets!
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Old 01-12-18, 07:53 PM
  #33  
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That is a really nice looking bike with good components. I'd get it all serviced and then ride it for a few hundred before deciding if you need to upgrade anything. Of course you do want to dial it in first to fit you.
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Old 01-12-18, 07:57 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by fender1 View Post
What most people do here (myself included) is spend as much as possible on "upgrades" of "period correct" or "modern" components, take lots of pictures, post about how it is the only bike you will ever want/need to justify the expenditure, ride it less than 100 miles total and then decide you want a different bike.

Next, try to sell the current bike (at not too much of a loss) to "raise cash" for a "new, grail bike" that just came up for sale and that you have NEVER seen for sale previously.....conveniently forget you were not LOOKING previously, but I digress..

Wash, rinse and repeat until you realize you can only ride one at a time and that you will always be in the "hole" and that you are looking for the next bike/upgrade because that is a large part of the fun.

Physical exercise is generally less enjoyable than buying stuff and talking about it on the internet.
Sell for the next "grail" ??!!

Dang it, if I had realized that's how you do it I wouldn't have this issue!



Seriously though, riding is so much more fun than buying and talking about them. Riding a different one each day makes it ever better!
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Old 01-13-18, 09:01 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by jamesdak View Post
Sell for the next "grail" ??!!

Dang it, if I had realized that's how you do it I wouldn't have this issue!



Seriously though, riding is so much more fun than buying and talking about them. Riding a different one each day makes it ever better!
Yeah riding is the best part. I was being a smart alec and reminding myself not to buy another bike.... hey,where did that used Rivendell Custom come from in my basement? Uh-oh, here we go again!
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Old 01-13-18, 10:13 AM
  #36  
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Your Tri-A is a decent bike, but the paint scheme is pretty boring and Nishiki is generally not a collectable brand that will appreciate in value, too many low end bikes and never a market leader/innovator.

Upgrade as your heart and mind desire, keep your original parts in a box in case you wish to switch the new parts to a newer acquisition.
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Old 01-13-18, 05:06 PM
  #37  
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I'm in the camp that says do what makes you happy. I would rather have a bike that is comfortable and has gearing for the terrain I ride, than one that is 100% original.

I bought my Miyata 310 in 1984 and for 27 years, it was my only road bike. In 2011 I decided to try a modern bike and bought a Jamis Quest. Since I'm not 23, the Miyata didn't fit so well anymore, but it was really apparent when I got the new bike. I didn't want to let go of the Miyata, so I set about making it something I would be happy to ride all day. I had already built a set of wheels with hooked beads so I could run better tires. I bought a taller stem and wider bars, and a Brooks saddle. I also switched to SPD pedals and shoes. It is still the same bike, but a whole lot nicer to ride.

Ironically, the only thing I've changed on the Jamis is the Brooks saddle. Everything else is just right.
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Old 01-14-18, 08:14 AM
  #38  
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What sloar said. What do you need the bike to do?

Answer that, and your decision is made.

That will be 3.50, and I'll send Shawn his cut....
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Old 01-14-18, 10:44 AM
  #39  
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From a purist standpoint, never upgrade the bike.

But, I'm not a purist. I have owned my 1985 Peugeot PGN10 since the day I rolled it out of the showroom at age 17, and it has undergone a few changes. First was a set of carbon/aluminum handlebars with new SRAM brakes. Then, a new carbon fiber fork. Then, an drivetrain/wheelset upgrade from helicomatic wheels (you can hear that "ping" sound of spokes snapping) to FSA Omega compact cranks, Mavic CXP22 wheelset, and an 8 speed cassette.

And this winter, a whole new drivetrain overhaul. Microshift Arsis 10 speed carbon groupset, new Microshift Centos 10 speed cassette, KMC 10 speed chain, and possibly a new Shimano cranket

And there's the other bike, an beat up old 1985 Peugeot P8 my dad picked up for me at a thrift store last year. The original components were far too rusted for use. So, this becomes the recipient of hand-me-down parts from the PGN10.

I like to look of old classics, but with new hoods, carbon fiber replacements, etc, the just are more comfortable than the older OEM equipment.

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Old 01-19-18, 02:37 PM
  #40  
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After couple miles on it and some hills, I need a lighter gear.
I think, the Shimano 600 is 53/42T and 13x24T (didn't actually check), but I know I gas out on hills.
Current Tommaso is 50/34T with 11x30T and am fine on most of the hills I go.

Shifters are not so bad, but brake levers are pretty strange and not comfortable with them, and probably looking for a longer quill stem.

So, it looks like my veredict is to move on to modern groupset - as someone mentioned, sell some bikes to fund it.
Looks a good fun thing to start picking the parts to it.
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Old 01-19-18, 03:13 PM
  #41  
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NB you have to deal with the rear fork spread being 126 not 130, every time you have to remove the wheel and put it back in..

with any modern cassette wheel..
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Old 01-19-18, 04:46 PM
  #42  
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Yep, will go with Sheldon Brown method for cold setting - https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html
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Old 01-19-18, 10:42 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by phtomita View Post
Yep, will go with Sheldon Brown method for cold setting - https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html
I prefer the method of cold setting that RJ the Bike Guy uses.

Dennis
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Old 01-19-18, 11:19 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by fender1 View Post

Physical exercise is generally less enjoyable than buying stuff and talking about it on the internet.
Truth.

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Old 01-20-18, 11:04 AM
  #45  
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I prefer the method of cold setting that RJ the Bike Guy uses.
Thank you Dennis, RJ's method has a much better fine adjustment and dropout alignment explained too. Very nice, will try that approach.
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Old 01-20-18, 11:17 AM
  #46  
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Remember more "speeds" the fussier the RD hanger alignment must be, for crisp Index shifting..

so once you have your perfect rear wheel, get the Shop alignment tool check..
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Old 01-28-18, 01:45 PM
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Update on cold setting and learned lessons.
Material: 3/8 retro-fit bolt (1 foot), nuts, washers. Caliper and ruler.
1. Had to expand to 170 to get to expected 130 (actual 129.82)
2. Used 4 washers on the side I was turning the nut - the washer in contact will rotate too, if I don't have the small washers between the big ones
3. Push the big washer in contact to the frame as deep as you can
4. Be careful when expanding or relaxing the nut - your frame is working like a very strong spring
5. When relaxing back, the threads on the bold can bite into your frame, so gently rotate a bit the whole bolt. If it is too easy to turn the nut, the bolt thread is stuck in the frame
6. Your bolt can move forward out from the dropout if you relax without being careful - and pops out. It happened to me The pressure was not that much, but I got a scratch on my frame
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Old 01-28-18, 02:23 PM
  #48  
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Frame alignment - I though this way is much more simple than the ones I saw on internet.
Material: 1 x 2 (actual is 3/4 x 1 3/4) and velcro, the same 3/8 retro-fit bolt and nuts, caliper.
1. Retro-fit bolt - nuts holding it on only one dropout
2. The 1x2 from head tube, seat tube and into inside the chain stay/seat stay
3. Velcro holds it tight close to head tube
4. Measure the distance between 1x2 and internal part of your drop out
5. Repeat other side - got 14.2 on cassete side, and 14.0 on other one.
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Old 01-28-18, 02:29 PM
  #49  
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Then, aligning the drop out.
Material: 3/8 retro-fit bolt, washer and nuts
1. Fix the 3/8 retro-fit very tight on one side of the frame and the bolt almost touching the other side of the frame
2. Use your good eyes to see if it is aligned - on the pics, have to move a bit up and forward (last pic after adjusted)
3. Repeat on other side

I bought two bolts as to mimic the park tool, but found this is much more easy and precise to work with on low budget
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Old 01-28-18, 02:59 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
Given this bike is 600 equipped as is, meaning nice 'groupset' already. Most likely by upgrade we are talking cross grade at most. If you have a box full of modern parts fine, but to refit the bike from scratch you'd be looking at an ultegra group, set of wheels, and a frame realignment. I figure that cost at least $1200+ if bought new from online retailers, not including labor.
Right. As has repeatedly been said here, newer does not equal "better."

I don't even use "upgrade" for something like replacing downtube shifters with STI or Ergo, or clips and straps with clipless pedals, or even 6-speed with 10-speed. I reserve the word "upgrade" for a clear improvement of quality. That's what it means: Up (in figurative) grade. I would use it for replacing a 105 derailleur with a Dura-Ace. I would not use it to describe replacing a Nuovo Record derailleur with a 105.

The term "update" is a better word for putting newer stuff on, because that's what that means: Up (in) date.

Of course, one can do both things at once. But better not to conflate them.
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