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Beautiful 45 year old Silver Lady

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Beautiful 45 year old Silver Lady

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Old 01-13-18, 03:03 PM
  #1  
trainman999
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Beautiful 45 year old Silver Lady

Fed Ex stopped yesterday and off rolled this beautiful Silver and Chrome Ladies Paramount.
She looks good for her age just needs some TLC. So off to the spa she goes to be completely dissembled ,inspected and cleaned. Her parts to be washed, polished and waxed, so they gleam like the day she was first unpacked. The scars on her frame, a few paint touch ups the same. Her bearings and chain need cleaned and fresh grease, so they spin like a dream. Her wheels need trued. her pivots some lube so they spin, shift, and stop like they day they were new. A little proof hide on her Brooks and some new pumps on her feet, Iím sure she will ride sweet. Some cable ,some housing, matching tape for her arms, and she will look like a charm. 100_3970 by galon783, on Flickr
100_3974 by galon783, on Flickr
100_3971 by galon783, on Flickr
100_3972 by galon783, on Flickr
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Old 01-13-18, 03:40 PM
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@trainman999

That is awesome, congrats! Looks to be a 74,75 P60 with full NR 10 speed group. Catalog says 531, but I don't see a sticker on any of them. Please put me on the short or long list if you ever move it along please.

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Old 01-13-18, 05:35 PM
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Wow, looks really clean. Nice find.
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Old 01-13-18, 06:22 PM
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merziac: She is a 73 P60. She looks to be original except for the tires, a piece of the rear brake housing and cable, and possibly the bar tape, don't know what she would have left the factory with. A corner of the 531 decal is near the crank. She is definitely a keeper. I'll put you an the list but gona be a looooong wait.
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Old 01-15-18, 01:26 AM
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Wow! So beautiful...
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Old 01-15-18, 02:31 AM
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From looking at the catalog it has 74-75 decals on the seatube, the 73 catalog shows the olympic rings and the 531 at the top. It may have a 73 serial number, but just like cars the new model year starts in the fall of the previous year with plenty of variation from time to time. I will be waiting patiently.


Originally Posted by trainman999 View Post
merziac: She is a 73 P60. She looks to be original except for the tires, a piece of the rear brake housing and cable, and possibly the bar tape, don't know what she would have left the factory with. A corner of the 531 decal is near the crank. She is definitely a keeper. I'll put you an the list but gona be a looooong wait.
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Old 01-15-18, 05:25 AM
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Merziac: That decal set started in March or April of 73 check the pictures of 73's here. Schwinn Paramount Registry Database
This bike is an Oct 73 frame
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Old 01-15-18, 05:32 AM
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Nice find! We see so few P60s posted here on C&V. I've always been curious about how many were made each year just as regular production or if they were all special order. Possibly @Scooper or @Metacortex know the answer.

I'm also curious about the ride. I've ridden a few drop top bar framesets and they were really "flexy" under my 200+ lb. weight. But none were Reynolds 531, so wonder how that might make a difference.

Best to you and Silver Lady on her long overdue makeover!
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Old 01-15-18, 12:37 PM
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Beautiful! I realize they are original, but if it were mine, I would ditch the "safety" brake levers. Which Brooks saddle is that?
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Old 01-15-18, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
@trainman999

That is awesome, congrats! Looks to be a 74,75 P60 with full NR 10 speed group. Catalog says 531, but I don't see a sticker on any of them. Please put me on the short or long list if you ever move it along please.
Brakes are not NR... Weinmann center pulls ??

NR or other nice sidepulls and nice levers would be a good upgrade.
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Old 01-15-18, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by trainman999 View Post
She looks to be original except for the tires, a piece of the rear brake housing and cable, and possibly the bar tape, don't know what she would have left the factory with. A corner of the 531 decal is near the crank. She is definitely a keeper.
Very nice indeed! I concur with your assessment and also believe the black "Flexon" handlebar tape is original as well.

Originally Posted by merziac View Post
It may have a 73 serial number, but just like cars the new model year starts in the fall of the previous year with plenty of variation from time to time.
At that time Schwinn did not follow the same production schedule as auto manufacturers, it did not start building a given model years bikes until well after the start of that year. I say well after because at the time Schwinn also had a fairly lengthy holiday tooling and inventory change-over shutdown. According to the December 1973 Reporter (dealer newsletter) in 1974 the factory was shut down from Jan 1 through the 15th and 1974 model production began on Wed. January 16th 1974. @trainman999 is correct that the decals changed around March of 1973, long before his new acquisition was built.

Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
We see so few P60s posted here on C&V. I've always been curious about how many were made each year just as regular production or if they were all special order. Possibly @Scooper or @Metacortex know the answer.
I believe all Paramounts at that time were built to order (e.g. not built just for warehouse inventory). There were no "special orders" however for $40 one could get a "Custom built made to measure frame". @Scooper previously posted the 1973 Paramount order forms here: Need 1973 Schwinn Paramount Brake info/pics




Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
Brakes are not NR... Weinmann center pulls ??
Campagnolo side-pull brakes were optional only on the P13 that year. I find it interesting to note that the Ladies' Paramounts (P60/P65) were introduced in 1973 and used Prugnat lugs, while the Men's models used Prugnat lugs only in '69 and '70.
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Old 01-15-18, 03:24 PM
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@Metacortex -

ever' time i see one o' these i has me the same thought - "why the heck did anrie & co. put a 750 on the rear with that insane tortuous transmission path?" seems it would have given so much smoother operation to fit the stern with a 730 pulling from the bottom...

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Old 01-15-18, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----
@Metacortex -

ever' time i see one o' these i has me the same thought - "why the heck did anrie & co. put a 750 on the rear with that insane tortuous transmission path?" seems it would have given so much smoother operation to fit the stern with a 730 pulling from the bottom...

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The Weinmann 730 bottom side-pull was used on the Ladies' Varsity. There's no way Schwinn would put Varsity brakes on a Paramount!
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Old 01-15-18, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Metacortex View Post
The Weinmann 730 bottom side-pull was used on the Ladies' Varsity. There's no way Schwinn would put Varsity brakes on a Paramount!
-----

...but Continental brakes were OK...


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Old 01-15-18, 08:07 PM
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Thanks everyone for the compliments
Hardrock23; If you are ever in Western Pa. and want to take her for a spin let me know.
Pastorbobninh; Was curious about that too 10%+? Better question how many survived? I have seen several references that a lot are striped for there parts. I’ll report how she rides when her makeover is done and we have a nice day. Would 531 make a difference? I suspect Schwinn used the heaver version of 531. I have a 21” Nov 68 frame, Prugnat lugs weighs 2030 gram. An 83 Superior 21” Nervex lugs made with the leftovers of Paramount production, weighs 2297 gram. A 22.5 Trek 710 made with 531 weighs 2075gram.
JohnE; Saddle is a Brooks professional.
Homebrew01; Brakes are Schwinn Approved type LC 2.3 F and type LC 2.7 R.
Metacortex; Would pedals have silver cages or black? How long from date serial # applied to frame till is is built and shipped? Have 83 Superior in Gunmetal Grey build date on headbadge 2422 August 30 82 when did they go off the calendar year and on to the automaker year?
No Silver Mist paint option on the order form? So the long point lugs are Prugnat? Is the fork crown Nervex? Peugnat? Something else? Have a Nov 68 frame with Prugnat lugs if they only used them in 69-70 is it considered a 69?
Juvela; Does the Weinmann 730 come short, medium, and long like Records? Do you just switch the barrel adjuster and the anchor bolt to make them bottom pull or do you have to find ones from the factory that way ?
Sorry for the long post with all the questions but I am always interested learning about Paramounts and Schwinns.
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Old 01-15-18, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by trainman999 View Post
Juvela; Does the Weinmann 730 come short, medium, and long like Records? Do you just switch the barrel adjuster and the anchor bolt to make them bottom pull or do you have to find ones from the factory that way ?
Sorry for the long post with all the questions but I am always interested learning about Paramounts and Schwinns.
-----

The Weinmann model 730 is a sidepull caliper which comes in a single reach. The model 500 Weinmann is a sidepull caliper with a shorter reach. Model 810 has a longer reach.

The model 750 centrepull caliper that is on there has a centre of slot dimension of 67mm and a longest reach of 76mm.

Model 730 has a centre of slot dimension of 62mm and a longest reach of 71mm.

You are spot on about switching the housing stop with the cable anchor to convert a Weinmann 500/730/810 caliper to one pulling from the bottom.



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Old 01-15-18, 08:37 PM
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Speedy/high end parts on a step-through or mixte frame--love it! Beautiful bike, and a tall one at that, if the HT is to be believed. I like the plan to keep it original, though if you put some lovely swept-back bars on it, I would certainly not complain as it would just look even classier. Best wishes on your restoration!
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Old 01-15-18, 11:09 PM
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A lovely lady who has aged well!

Cheers,
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Old 01-16-18, 12:04 AM
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Wow, thanks for the offer!

I would've thought 74 off the SN too. Didn't know that's how it was done back then...Interested to know when they changed over also. Surprised also that the color option isn't listed.
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Old 01-16-18, 12:59 AM
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Don't see one of those every day. I'd keep it original as much as possible, but still rideable. To me that means decent brake pads and tires and don't touch anything else if it still functions properly.
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Old 01-17-18, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by trainman999 View Post
Metacortex; Would pedals have silver cages or black?
I believe the original Campagnolo Superleggeri pedals would have had black anodized cages: VeloBase.com - Component: Campagnolo 1037/a, Record Strada Superleggeri (SL)

They would have also included Christophe toe clips with Lapize straps.

How long from date serial # applied to frame till is is built and shipped?
Unlike the fillet-brazed or electro-forged models where the serial number was stamped on the headtube or dropout before that component was brazed or welded to the frame, I believe Paramount frames were stamped during the actual frame build or possibly even after completion (but before chrome and paint). Since Paramounts were built to order and not for inventory, with the exception of certain documented parts shortages in late '72 I believe it was only days to weeks from the time a Paramount of that vintage was SN stamped before the bike would have been completed.

Have 83 Superior in Gunmetal Grey build date on headbadge 2422 August 30 82 when did they go off the calendar year and on to the automaker year?
With rare exceptions the first time Schwinn set out to built a given model year bikes before that year began was when it used the last 10 days of 1975 production to build a limited number of '76 models. This was a new program announced in several Schwinn dealer "News Flash" bulletins around that time.

No Silver Mist paint option on the order form?
The 1973 Paramount order forms posted above were dated September 1, 1972, well before the 1973 catalog had been finalized. The November '72 Schwinn Reporter indicated that the '73 Paramounts (including the new Ladies' models) would be available in "all Schwinn colors, including black, white and Silver Mist." This is also reflected in the '73 consumer catalog that followed:



A dealer News Flash bulletin dated 11/72 indicated that Silver Mist was being offered on '73 Paramounts as a substitute for full chrome plating as that option was being discontinued.

So the long point lugs are Prugnat?
Yes indeed.

Is the fork crown Nervex? Peugnat? Something else?
The fork crown is probably Nervex, but I am not 100% sure: Nervex Professional lugs

Have a Nov 68 frame with Prugnat lugs if they only used them in 69-70 is it considered a 69?
It is a 1968 model built during the 2nd half of the year. Upon further research I believe Schwinn changed the Paramount from Nervex to Prugnat lugs after the annual summer holiday shutdown in July 1968. The earliest model I've seen with Prugnat lugs so far was built in August 1968: Story of my 1968 Schwinn Paramount P13


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Old 01-18-18, 12:01 AM
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So I was referring only to the drivetrain as the 15 speed would have had the LeTour RD to go with the triple crankset.


Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
Brakes are not NR... Weinmann center pulls ??

NR or other nice sidepulls and nice levers would be a good upgrade.
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Old 01-19-18, 08:29 AM
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Metacortex:
Thank You for all the info. I find it interesting that Schwinn didn’t put the GT300 rear derailleur and a 31 tooth sprocket on the P60 they must have thought the ladies were only going to ride on the flats or were Amazons, with the stiff gearing.
A few more questions. Any idea what percentage of ladies models were made in a given year? Looking at the production figures on the Waterford site I am guessing a 79 P60 or P65 is real rare with a total of just 360 Paramounts for the year. Were there any ladies models made after production moved to the Waterford plant? One more question any idea how many track bikes were made in a year? Thanks again for all the info you provide
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Old 01-19-18, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by trainman999 View Post
...A few more questions. ...Were there any ladies models made after production moved to the Waterford plant...?
I have never seen a Waterford made women's specific frame Paramount, either listed on ebay, or CL or in the 1981-1994 catalogs. But this is just an observation, not a stated fact.
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Old 01-20-18, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by trainman999 View Post
I find it interesting that Schwinn didn’t put the GT300 rear derailleur and a 31 tooth sprocket on the P60 they must have thought the ladies were only going to ride on the flats or were Amazons, with the stiff gearing.
The P60 was a ladies' version of the P10, the P65 was a ladies' version of the P15, with the same componentry and gearing respectively. If one had wanted the GT-300 and 14-31 freewheel on a Ladies' Paramount from the factory then they would have ordered the P65. Of course at the time dealers would happily swap components and customize bikes to fit the customers needs.

Any idea what percentage of ladies models were made in a given year? Looking at the production figures on the Waterford site I am guessing a 79 P60 or P65 is real rare with a total of just 360 Paramounts for the year.
Schwinn published no production data on Ladies' models but I'd guess they were less than 5% of total Paramount production. Schwinn indicated in an August '72 bulletin that it was increasing Paramount production from 3,400 units in '72 to 5,200 units in '73, 5% of that would be 260 units. I would say that '73 was most likely the peak of Ladies' Paramount production since that was the peak production year for Paramounts in general and the Ladies' models were new that year.

Were there any ladies models made after production moved to the Waterford plant? One more question any idea how many track bikes were made in a year?
As @pastorbobnlnh indicated I don't believe Waterford made any Ladies' models but I don't know for sure. Also no idea of how many track bikes were made, however several bulletins I have from Schwinn indicate that P14 track models were built only in the first quarter for April/May delivery in order to be ready for the summer racing season.
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