Mikeps181

I picked this up a few years ago and never checked into it. Anyone recognize what it might be? It is titanium and all dura ace components. It’s older but obviously a higher end bike. There are no stickers at all. Serial number is BR56xxx. I checked with lite speed and they will search the serial number for $15 (which I would be happy to pay if I knew for sure it was a Litespeed). Any help would be appreciated.

pastorbobnlnh 

Did you contact Litespeed or Lynskey Performance in Chattanooga? Did you send them a picture?

Lynskey was the originator of Litespeed. They also made/make titanium frames for other manufacturers under contract. In fact this is the bulk of their business. I know this firsthand from a nephew who works for them.

The fact that there are no decals nor headbadge, and no Litespeed branding on the carbon fork, my guess is that it is not a Litespeed. But that does not rule out that it didn't originate in Chattanooga.

Welcome to C&V. Glad you joined us.

2manybikes

Looks like a Litespeed Classic. No way to be sure other than with the serial number that I know.

SJX426 

Welcome and nice bike! We like to see the drive side of a bike for Identification as knowing what is hung on it can make small differences at times.

Bianchigirll 

Closeups of some of the frame details may help, dropouts, hanger, cable stops etc. looks nice

voyager1

What did the seller think it was?

Ex Pres 

I have a '96 Litespeed Classic, according to them. My SN# format is nothing like yours. Mine is 5 digits, all numbers 19xxx

CliffordK

Not a lot of details on those, but yes, remove the rear wheel and take a closeup of both sides of the rear dropouts.

Also, where did you find the serial number?

I'm inclined to go with pastorbobnlnh that Litespeed has been marking their forks for quite some time, even if they are produced by other manufacturers. So, probably not a Litespeed fork (not that it couldn't have been changed).

Can you date the component gropuset? That may help some, unless it has been changed. Look for mismatched parts in the groupset.

Wildwood 

Not to derail - but, Is the 5 digit number on the BB?; circumferentially near the outer edge, with the frame size stamped beneath it.

Reason: I'm trying to determine if a late 90s or early 00s titanium frame was TN (LiteSpeed) or MA (Merlin) welded. Or contracted out to somewhere else in USA.

edit - attached pic shows distinctive feature on Macalu frame - marketed as Excel Sports' (CO) house brand. Cirrus model pictured, size 59cm.

aeshultz

I was going to say Litespeed Catalyst, but the curved chainstays would place it a few steps up the food chain.

Kontact 

Given the dropouts, the long tapered bullets at the ends of the stays and the rounded ends on the cable stops I believe it is one of these:



They were sold by Colorado Cylist and supposedly made by Titanium Sports - a side venture of a wheelchair company.

It would not be my first choice given some things I've heard about weld failures, but if the price is right it will ride about like most Ti bikes.

Wildwood 

Got a serial number for that Douglas? Meet the OP's format? BR56XXX

MauriceMoss

I'd agree with @Kontact and bet this was made by TST:



(from this post).



There was also a frame that (supposedly) wore Mongoose decals that was purchased off ebay a while back with a serial # of BR56402. Might even be the same frame:

Just won this on ebay, what do you guys think??

Kontact 

As I indicated, I wouldn't buy a Douglas, so I don't know what sort of SN format they used. I figured it out from photos, but I would be shocked if I'm wrong.

I'd call Colorado Cyclist.

Kontact 

Here's picture of one of the Mongeese. All the pics I can find show these two hole drop outs and no chainstay bullets:

Ex Pres 

I'll have to get back to you. It's hanging out in the shop, and it's cold, I'm in for the night.

dddd

It seems that internet consensus says that the higher-end Douglas Pro 6/4 Titanium model was produced by Litespeed, but that the Douglas 3/2 Precision Ti model was made by Titanium Sports, at least at one time.
The OP's frame sure looks like the Precision Ti, though the ones I'm familiar with had a fully polished rear frame with the rest being painted.

The bullets welded onto the ends of the stays near the dropouts are a feature shared with my Merckx EX Ti, which is Litespeed-made, but on the Merckx the bullet-to-tube welds have been ground flat.

I've had a couple of the Precision Ti models, in two different sizes, I kept the smaller of the two and it has been a favorite ride, definitely one of the most comfortably smooth-riding bikes I've ever ridden.
I'm light and was attracted to the low price with a 1" steerer tube, figuring it didn't need to be a very stiff frame for me to get good use out of it. Both of mine came with 1" threadless Reynolds Ouzo Comp carbon forks.

Kontact 

The bullets on the Douglas are longer than the Litespeed's. The Litespeed welds aren't ground, they're fusion welds. My Basso Litespeed also has them.

You can see an unpainted Douglas Precision Ti in the photo I posted above. That's the way they were usually shown in the catalog.

sloar 

Hey, that’s one of my old bikes.

dddd

Looks like Mike here hasn't revisited the thread he started, but I can confirm the exact same BR56xxx serial number for my 56cm (Center-to-Top of top tube) Douglas Precision Ti.


Good memory on the part of Kontact, who also stated that some number of these frames reportedly had weld-area failures.
What part(s) of the frame was most afflicted, if you recall?

Kontact 

I don't recall hearing about a specific trend. Ti bikes tend to crack at the welds from weld pollution, not from a structural design problem. So the failure is likely to show up anywhere that has a polluted weld AND receives stress during riding. So cracks around down tubes are the most common, but you might have a poor weld somewhere else that hasn't cracked because it isn't stressed very much.

TST and Clark Kent both appear to have exited the market because of the costs associated with higher failure rates. 30 years after the launch of Merlin and Litespeed, many of those same people are still making Ti bikes, so it might be fair to assume that the brands that have lasted did so because they managed to keep their welds clean enough to keep warranty costs down. I'm pretty confident riding old Litespeeds.


Like I said earlier, if the price is low enough or you already have a TST - enjoy. It is still a nice riding, corrosion proof bike and if it has lasted this long it might not have any hidden issues. TST likely had some welders who were better than others, and some that cut corners. I would just rate some brands ahead of them for their lower likelihood of post-warranty failure.


One of my Ti bikes is a totally weird, skinny tubed Italian made road bike. If I was being entirely sensible I wouldn't have bought such a question mark. But it was cheap and fun to ride, so I'll enjoy it and not get too upset if it starts to fail.

artorresv

Nessism

Money down the frame was made by TST. As mentioned TST made lots of frames for different companies such as Mongoose and Douglas but the name doesn't matter, they are TST frames. As far as I know TST frames were nicely built and robust. I had one for a while and liked it. Regarding the stay bullet business, there was some hoopla back in the day, including Litespeed, where there was claims of intellectual property infringement. I don't know who actually owns the IP for the bullet plugs but after the dispute some companies changed their designs.

Edit: below is a photo of my old TST frame. Note the similarity with the OP's bike...

RobbieTunes

Perhaps a Tesch frame build, I'd guess. I had one with the same stays, and his wife confirmed it. He was just one of several building Ti back then for re-branding elsewhere. Most of his had the 7 o'clock cable routing, and those stays. Most had hoods over the rear dropouts, and most took 1" forks. Mine had DT shifter braze-on posts, as well.

At the time, Colorado Cycler, Douglas, and others in the area were kind of the leading edge, marketing-wise, of Ti frames built by a variety of folks.

RobbieTunes

The polishing weakened the frame, but by how much, no idea. I see a lot of Ti frames with similar characteristics, and they all seem to have a Colorado connection, Douglas being one. I once bought several frames from a kid whose dad had been a pro, and 3 of them were Douglas frames. I've had 4 Douglas frames in all, one of which I think was the Precision Ti. They were all really nice.