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ISO and for trade thread part 5

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ISO and for trade thread part 5

Old 06-23-22, 03:27 PM
  #4951  
Hondo6
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Originally Posted by SJX426 View Post
@Hondo6 - thanks, no find.
Well, here's a cone set for the FH-7402 on eBay. Per Shimano documentation (exploded view diagrams), the part numbers for both cones for the FH-7402 appear to be the same as those for the FH-7403.

https://manualzz.com/doc/53869697/sh...-exploded-view

Vendor is in Taiwan. Supposedly NOS w/o any shop wear.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/363858310535

Pricey, but it's the only one I've seen.
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Old 06-23-22, 03:57 PM
  #4952  
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Originally Posted by ehcoplex View Post
Looking for a 10x1x137 axle to convert a 120mm Shimano 600 hub to 126.....
Are you looking just for a QR axle or axle and cones? I've got a FH-6400 QR axle I bought to canibalise cones and washers for solid axle and tracknuts conversion (I don't use QRs) and it's 137mm.
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Old 06-23-22, 04:03 PM
  #4953  
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Originally Posted by SJX426 View Post
If I could find an "Old Shimano Exploded Diagrams/Parts list" I could look for the number. Google is not my friend here.



When I discover this issue, I started looking without success either for the cone or a reasonable priced hub as a replacement parts donor. Consequently, I converted the bike from DA to Chorus. I was going to look for brifters for the 8v DA but the prices were too high at the time so I decided to do the conversion. Not sorry I did. This is the nail in the otherwise complete DA group set including the brakes. I would like to give it to my daughter but not with this cone.
What are the measurements of this cone? I'd have to do a bit of digging in my hub parts box, but I might still have some Shimano rear hub cones, not sure if I used them all up. If I have any, they would be from 6400. The dust seal rings a bell, definitely have something that looks similar.
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Old 06-23-22, 05:22 PM
  #4954  
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Originally Posted by VintageSteelEU View Post
What are the measurements of this cone? I'd have to do a bit of digging in my hub parts box, but I might still have some Shimano rear hub cones, not sure if I used them all up. If I have any, they would be from 6400. The dust seal rings a bell, definitely have something that looks similar.
Per Shimano documentation (see links in my comments above for exploded diagrams for the 7402 and 7403), the DS cone (right) for the 7402/7403/7463 is 10x14mm. The NDS (left) cone is 10x16mm. Shimano part numbers (1988 thru at least 1990) were 354 9805 354 9804 (DS) and 354 9806 354 9805 (NDS), respectively.

Don't have a clue about the outside diameter of the cone and/or dust seal.

Last edited by Hondo6; 06-24-22 at 01:39 PM. Reason: Edited to correct and highlight part number error in original.
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Old 06-23-22, 06:24 PM
  #4955  
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Originally Posted by SJX426 View Post
@Hondo6 - thanks, no find.
Shimano has made a great deal of their user and dealer documentation available across the breadth of their history for FREE, without having to resort to those sometimes shady third-party manual repositories.

Shimano Tech Docs, 7403 results

This doesn't get you any closer to a replacement cone. I strongly suspect that the OEM part has been out of production for over 2 decades. With careful measurement you might find a suitable replacement from wheels manufacturing. Unfortunately (again) Wheels Mfg doesn't list a direct replacement for FH-7403 drive side cones.
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Old 06-24-22, 03:36 AM
  #4956  
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Originally Posted by Unca_Sam View Post
Shimano has made a great deal of their user and dealer documentation available across the breadth of their history for FREE, without having to resort to those sometimes shady third-party manual repositories.

Shimano Tech Docs, 7403 results

This doesn't get you any closer to a replacement cone. I strongly suspect that the OEM part has been out of production for over 2 decades. With careful measurement you might find a suitable replacement from wheels manufacturing. Unfortunately (again) Wheels Mfg doesn't list a direct replacement for FH-7403 drive side cones.
Thanks - I hadn't found their documentation "search by keyword" utility. Bookmarked now!
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Old 06-24-22, 05:21 AM
  #4957  
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SJX426 Maybe Mad Honk can give your cone a "tune-up." He salvaged a couple cone nuts for me a while back.

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Old 06-24-22, 05:48 AM
  #4958  
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Originally Posted by Hondo6 View Post
Per Shimano documentation (see links in my comments above for exploded diagrams for the 7402 and 7403), the DS cone (right) for the 7402/7403/7463 is 10x14mm. The NDS (left) cone is 10x16mm. Shimano part numbers (1988 thru at least 1990) were 354 9805 and 354 9806, respectively.

Don't have a clue about the outside diameter of the cone and/or dust seal.
I'll do some digging and measuring when I get back home today.
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Old 06-24-22, 06:48 AM
  #4959  
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@VintageSteelEU - It is reassembled. My thoughts were to mark where the defect is and orient the cone away from the road when mounting on the bike. PITA, I know. It actually feels pretty smooth.
I will attempt to take measurements with it assembled. The flats are 15mm.

Disassembly is done on the NDS because the free hub is in the way of the DS cone and lock nut. I did think about taking measurements but.....

Starting from the cone the next 3 diameters are:
16.8
12.78
16.92
I thought the last one was a washer but I think the measurement is in the 17.48 or so.
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Last edited by SJX426; 06-24-22 at 07:20 AM.
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Old 06-24-22, 01:31 PM
  #4960  
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Originally Posted by VintageSteelEU View Post
I'll do some digging and measuring when I get back home today.
Correct (double-checked against Shimano EVs) for the 7403 DS and NDS cones in my comment above should have been 354 9804 and 354 9805. Was off by one in the part numbers in my earlier comment.

Last edited by Hondo6; 06-24-22 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 06-24-22, 03:16 PM
  #4961  
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Originally Posted by Hondo6 View Post
Correct (double-checked against Shimano EVs) for the 7403 DS and NDS cones in my comment above should have been 354 9804 and 354 9805. Was off by one in the part numbers in my earlier comment.
Looks like FH-6400 one won't be compatible. The cone itself is about 15.5mm long. 18mm with the washers which go under the locknut. It also looks slightly different:

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Old 06-24-22, 04:30 PM
  #4962  
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Originally Posted by VintageSteelEU View Post
Looks like FH-6400 one won't be compatible. The cone itself is about 15.5mm long. 18mm with the washers which go under the locknut. It also looks slightly different:

I think that may be the NDS cone. But it appears that the DS cone isn't a match, either - it's M10x12mm.

https://si.shimano.com/#/en/search/Keyword?name=6400
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Old 06-24-22, 05:20 PM
  #4963  
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Originally Posted by Hondo6 View Post
I think that may be the NDS cone. But it appears that the DS cone isn't a match, either - it's M10x12mm.

https://si.shimano.com/#/en/search/Keyword?name=6400
Blimey! You are, indeed, correct. Got another one, still on the axle and used (and the race isn't perfect, which is why I took photo of that other, new one). But if it's a different thread, then not very useful. Just a thought, looking at pdfs for these two hubs, it looks like the bearing balls are the same size. Hub axle is the same length. Freewheel body is different, but there might be a chance of getting the hub working properly with Ultegra cones and axle. Here's a photo of the other side cone (with some brinelling, but not too bad):

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Old 06-24-22, 06:26 PM
  #4964  
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Believe the threading is the same (M10 meaning "metric threaded 10mm diameter axle), but that the the "x12mm" refers to the length of the cone.

The 6400 cones are each a bit shorter than the corresponding 7403 cones. Might be usable with spacers (if you could find the exact spacers needed; looking at the exploded diagrams, it seems you'd need a 0.5mm and a 2.0mm for NDS and DS, respectively). But in that case it's also possible the location of the seal might be wrong, and/or the widest parts of the cone might not fit correctly.

In any case: for something being given to a son or daughter, I certainly understand wanting to do things exactly right.

Last edited by Hondo6; 06-24-22 at 08:06 PM.
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Old 06-25-22, 05:11 AM
  #4965  
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Originally Posted by Hondo6 View Post
Believe the threading is the same (M10 meaning "metric threaded 10mm diameter axle), but that the the "x12mm" refers to the length of the cone.

The 6400 cones are each a bit shorter than the corresponding 7403 cones. Might be usable with spacers (if you could find the exact spacers needed; looking at the exploded diagrams, it seems you'd need a 0.5mm and a 2.0mm for NDS and DS, respectively). But in that case it's also possible the location of the seal might be wrong, and/or the widest parts of the cone might not fit correctly.

In any case: for something being given to a son or daughter, I certainly understand wanting to do things exactly right.
The 2 spacers / washers between the cone and the locknut seem to be about 2mm combined. So it looks like it could do in a pinch. But I certainly would appreciate a lot having a parent to give me a bicycle with a complete 7400 group and it would be a very special bicycle, so there's a lot of sense in keeping all, even the tiniest bits, original. I completed most of the Ultegra 6400 group, but it's for a bicycle that will be frequently used. And as such, I don't care that much about every single bit being right. I also convert all my hubs that are going to be used on regular basis to a bolt and track nut, so keeping everything 100% original and genuine is impossible. The cones are Shimano, just in case there is a slight difference in the bearing race angle / curvature and because in my experience, using cones from different manufacturers causes more of a headache when it comes to getting the spacing right. I once converted a front hub to see it reach 105mm or so OLN. Had to go for junior bike hub axle to get it right...
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Old 06-25-22, 06:36 AM
  #4966  
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This Dura-Ace cone discussion really deserves its own thread. In fact, maybe a page on a wiki. (Forum software isn't a very good way to save knowledge in any sort of reasonable way.)
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Old 06-25-22, 10:09 AM
  #4967  
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All,
Thanks for your input. The bike I am thinking of dressing with the DA is a Pinarello Veneto. Not top of the line but a Pin which is never bad!
The more I think about it the more I think this is the right solution for her bike. I did dress it in Superbe Pro for a trial run when she visited a few years ago. Her comment was that it was a great bike that didn't required much peddling!
Pinarello Veneto on Flickr

The before picture as purchased.
Pinarello Vento- as purchased on Flickr

Example of the paint condition of the whole bike
P1000928 on Flickr
P1000949 on Flickr
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Last edited by SJX426; 06-25-22 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 06-26-22, 08:43 AM
  #4968  
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Originally Posted by smontanaro View Post
This Dura-Ace cone discussion really deserves its own thread. In fact, maybe a page on a wiki. (Forum software isn't a very good way to save knowledge in any sort of reasonable way.)
+1 on this becoming itís own thread. LBS sometimes puts old bikes and bits out to be claimed for scrap/reuse. Day before yesterday, there was a decent looking rear wheel, missing the axle and hub innards. Had a useable Mavic rim so I took it home. Got home and found wheel has a 7403 DA hub. I wasnít looking in this thread for rebuilding tips for my new wheel, but this has really helped me.
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