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ISO and for trade thread part 5

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ISO and for trade thread part 5

Old 10-03-22, 09:01 PM
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Shimano SL-7800 downtube shift levers wanted.
Have SL-7401 pair to trade, or a large number of other items.
Thanks,
Brent
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Old 10-06-22, 07:00 AM
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I started rebuilding yet another bicycle and of course have hit some obstacles. Firstly, the frame seems to be Italian (70mm BB shell). I had huge problems removing the cranks (originally some low-tier Ofmega and LH crank had to go) and I'm still having issues with removing the drive-side cup of the BB (yes, I tried unscrewing it counter-clockwise). Eventually, I thought I might just leave the RH cup on and reuse the spindle with the crankset I'm planing to use (Shimano FC-1056 which I have). The problem is the spindle is 130mm (!!!) and probably ISO, not JIS. It might still work, but it will be way too long to get the chainline anywhere near to where it needs to be (FC-1056 requires roughly 109mm spindle). If I were able to remove the RH cup, there's no problem. One can still buy even Shimano cartridge BBs in 70mm width and many spindle lengths with JIS taper. But because I might not be able to remove the RH cup, I am now looking for a spindle to use with the existing BB cups. anything between 109-111, perhaps even 113mm length and JIS taper would be great. Even ISO taper might be ok. I'm happy to buy one from someone based in the UK or EU. I do have a few items I could trade, but nothing special (I think SR Laprade, NOS in 26.8mm, some new toe clips and straps, that sort of stuff).
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Old 10-06-22, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by VintageSteelEU
I started rebuilding yet another bicycle and of course have hit some obstacles. Firstly, the frame seems to be Italian (70mm BB shell).
Shell width is not a reliable indicator of bottom bracket shell thread spec. Are there any markings on the cups? Measuring the inside diameter of the threaded portion of the shell, or the outside diameter of the threads on the cup can distinguish Italian thread from English/French/Swiss: Italian thread will have 36mm diameter, the others 35mm.


I had huge problems removing the cranks (originally some low-tier Ofmega and LH crank had to go) and I'm still having issues with removing the drive-side cup of the BB (yes, I tried unscrewing it counter-clockwise).
Right-hand thread fixed cups (i.e., Italian and French thread) tend to be installed very tight to prevent precessional loosening, and a shop-quality tool may be required to get them out, e.g. Campagnolo #793/A, VAR #30, Hozan C-358.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
793a.jpg (20.7 KB, 310 views)
File Type: jpg
var30.jpg (127.1 KB, 312 views)
File Type: jpg
hozan-fc-tool.jpg (127.8 KB, 315 views)

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Old 10-06-22, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by top506
ISO single Campagnolo Moskova rim. Can work with either 32 or 36 hole.

Top
Top,
That animal is hanging just outside my shop door. Gimme a call and show us pics of your three speed conversion. Smiles, MH
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Old 10-06-22, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
Shell width is not a reliable indicator of bottom bracket shell thread spec. Are there any markings on the cups? Measuring the inside diameter of the threaded portion of the shell, or the outside diameter of the threads on the cup can distinguish Italian thread from English/French/Swiss: Italian thread will have 36mm diameter, the others 35mm.
Right-hand thread fixed cups (i.e., Italian and French thread) tend to be installed very tight to prevent precessional loosening, and a shop-quality tool may be required to get them out, e.g. Campagnolo #793/A, VAR #30, Hozan C-358.
Measuring the LH diameter of the BB shell returns 35.5 mm (35.6 for the outside diameter of the cup). I understand BSA shell should be nearer 33.7mm (or thereabouts). There are no markings on the cups or spindle. Absolutely nothing.
That tool would be great, but quick search got me the price in the ball park of $450 with customs and shipping for the Campy version. The only tools I have for BB are for Shimano standard (multiple splines) or just a standard adjustable wrench (which was fine for BBs on my other bicycles, which are Swiss threaded) and that is part of a problem. Adjustable spanner doesn't offer much of a purchase on the cup. So I would have to figure out some thinner wrench with a corect diameter and a way of attaching it onto the cup so that it stays in place. Maybe I have to find a piece of some decent steel and try to manufacture some custom tool. Overall, search for a replacement spindle seems to be the least headache-inducing way out of this, especially that the frame itself is not in any way valuable or worth investing too much time and money into it.
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Old 10-06-22, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by VintageSteelEU
Measuring the LH diameter of the BB shell returns 35.5 mm (35.6 for the outside diameter of the cup). I understand BSA shell should be nearer 33.7mm (or thereabouts). There are no markings on the cups or spindle. Absolutely nothing.
That tool would be great, but quick search got me the price in the ball park of $450 with customs and shipping for the Campy version. The only tools I have for BB are for Shimano standard (multiple splines) or just a standard adjustable wrench (which was fine for BBs on my other bicycles, which are Swiss threaded) and that is part of a problem. Adjustable spanner doesn't offer much of a purchase on the cup. So I would have to figure out some thinner wrench with a corect diameter and a way of attaching it onto the cup so that it stays in place. Maybe I have to find a piece of some decent steel and try to manufacture some custom tool. Overall, search for a replacement spindle seems to be the least headache-inducing way out of this, especially that the frame itself is not in any way valuable or worth investing too much time and money into it.
Paging @merziac He has some good images of a brace for removing fixed cups
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Old 10-06-22, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by VintageSteelEU
Measuring the LH diameter of the BB shell returns 35.5 mm (35.6 for the outside diameter of the cup). I understand BSA shell should be nearer 33.7mm (or thereabouts). There are no markings on the cups or spindle. Absolutely nothing.
That tool would be great, but quick search got me the price in the ball park of $450 with customs and shipping for the Campy version. The only tools I have for BB are for Shimano standard (multiple splines) or just a standard adjustable wrench (which was fine for BBs on my other bicycles, which are Swiss threaded) and that is part of a problem. Adjustable spanner doesn't offer much of a purchase on the cup. So I would have to figure out some thinner wrench with a corect diameter and a way of attaching it onto the cup so that it stays in place. Maybe I have to find a piece of some decent steel and try to manufacture some custom tool. Overall, search for a replacement spindle seems to be the least headache-inducing way out of this, especially that the frame itself is not in any way valuable or worth investing too much time and money into it.
Regarding BB tools: have you seen this (about 1/3 from end of article)?

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html

Might be worth a try. Parts to fabricate same certainly won't cost $450.
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Old 10-07-22, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Hondo6
Regarding BB tools: have you seen this (about 1/3 from end of article)?

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html

Might be worth a try. Parts to fabricate same certainly won't cost $450.
I tried something similar before, though with a length of pipe instead the spring washers. Perhaps spring washers are the way to go? I might give it another try and pop out to my local ironmonger.
Just stumbled upon some cheap NOS Shimano italian threaded bottom bracket which seems to be roughly the right size. So here's hoping I will find a way of removing the existing one.
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Old 10-07-22, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by VintageSteelEU
I tried something similar before, though with a length of pipe instead the spring washers. Perhaps spring washers are the way to go? I might give it another try and pop out to my local ironmonger.
Just stumbled upon some cheap NOS Shimano italian threaded bottom bracket which seems to be roughly the right size. So here's hoping I will find a way of removing the existing one.
Sheldonís contraption has worked well for me with tough French BBs.
Cheers,
Van
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Old 10-08-22, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by VintageSteelEU
Adjustable spanner doesn't offer much of a purchase on the cup. So I would have to figure out some thinner wrench with a corect diameter and a way of attaching it onto the cup so that it stays in place. Maybe I have to find a piece of some decent steel and try to manufacture some custom tool.
J.A. Stein offers a tool that will clamp a typical fixed cup spanner against the cup:


https://steintool.com/portfolio-item...-wrench-clamp/

It is designed to work with a cotterless BB axle. If your bike uses a cottered axle, you could temporarily use a cotterless axle to hold the tool while you extract the cup.
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Old 10-08-22, 09:35 AM
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thanks to mrv for the helicomatic tool - worked great and i got the broken plastic piece off. however, i've decided to go a different route for this particular bike. i used a 27 araya gold anodized wheelset i had, lighter and matches the motobecane grand touring (dark blue with gold paint) quite nicely.

anyone looking for a 27 rear wheel with maillard helico-matic hub and 14-34t freewheel with weinmann concave rim?


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Old 10-08-22, 09:42 AM
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while we're at it, i'm looking for a front triple simplex derailleur to match this rear for a px10le. and retrofriction shifters!

i'd also be open to a set of front and rear simplex derailleurs with long cage, but those tend to be hard to find and pricey.


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Old 10-08-22, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by dukeofearl
while we're at it, i'm looking for a front triple simplex derailleur to match this rear for a px10le. and retrofriction shifters!

i'd also be open to a set of front and rear simplex derailleurs with long cage, but those tend to be hard to find and pricey.


Braze-on or clamp/banded? For the retrofrictions...
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Old 10-08-22, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by jdawginsc
Braze-on or clamp/banded? For the retrofrictions...
clamp for shifters and fd
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Old 10-08-22, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
J.A. Stein offers a tool that will clamp a typical fixed cup spanner against the cup:


https://steintool.com/portfolio-item...-wrench-clamp/

It is designed to work with a cotterless BB axle. If your bike uses a cottered axle, you could temporarily use a cotterless axle to hold the tool while you extract the cup.
FWIW: If the axle is removed, you can accomplish the same thing with a bolt & a couple of large, thick fender washers. If the axle is in place, you can use a stack of 5/8 inch washers to fill the space & the crank arm bolt to hold everything tight.
Cheers,
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Old 10-08-22, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Senior Ryder 00
FWIW: If the axle is removed, you can accomplish the same thing with a bolt & a couple of large, thick fender washers. If the axle is in place, you can use a stack of 5/8 inch washers to fill the space & the crank arm bolt to hold everything tight.
Cheers,
Van
Got the bolt (M16) and some flat washers today (somehow they didn't seem to have coil washers at the hardware store). And of course I had to find out when I got back home that the bigest socket I have is 22mm (with the nut and bolt being 23mm and a bit ). Which, you know, of course had to be the case. So a new set of these is on its way now.
Actually, it's a good idea with oversized flat washers for holding wrenches and spanners. Now when I think about it, they actually had some fairly big square ones which might be very useful for this purpose.

As for the tool in picture, it gives me an idea of using a crank puller. I have a rubbish one which with a washer could do exactly the same thing.
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Old 10-08-22, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by dukeofearl
while we're at it, i'm looking for a front triple simplex derailleur to match this rear for a px10le. and retrofriction shifters!

i'd also be open to a set of front and rear simplex derailleurs with long cage, but those tend to be hard to find and pricey.


I have a Simplex with a long cage that I'd trade for that short-cage one, it's a normal parallelogram with alloy knuckles, not a dropped one like the pic above...

And consider front cable routing, you may want to look for a front mech with a cable-stop.
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Old 10-08-22, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by oneclick
I have a Simplex with a long cage that I'd trade for that short-cage one, it's a normal parallelogram with alloy knuckles, not a dropped one like the pic above...

And consider front cable routing, you may want to look for a front mech with a cable-stop.
do you have one you recommend? send a pic of the rd thx
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Old 10-09-22, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by dukeofearl
do you have one you recommend? send a pic of the rd thx
[posting because I seem to remember not having enough posts to reply to pm)

Ok, do you need dropout or claw mount? Depending I may have to swap bits over from another Simplex;
and the alloy bodied one has no nameplate.
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Old 10-09-22, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by oneclick
[posting because I seem to remember not having enough posts to reply to pm)

Ok, do you need dropout or claw mount? Depending I may have to swap bits over from another Simplex;
and the alloy bodied one has no nameplate.
thanks but i think i might stick with this one and just try to find a front derailleur, unless someone is selling like a matching set or something
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Old 10-09-22, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by dukeofearl
while we're at it, i'm looking for a front triple simplex derailleur to match this rear for a px10le. and retrofriction shifters!

i'd also be open to a set of front and rear simplex derailleurs with long cage, but those tend to be hard to find and pricey.

Just an FYI- Iíve successfully run triples with two SLJ FDs that arenít triple-specific (ie, donít have the bigger inboard cage plate).

I also had good luck getting Retrofriction shifters on ebay.fr (in one case some essential bits were missing, but even after sourcing those bits from Wayne @ veloclassique they were still a good deal).

Retrofrictions + SLJ mechs (esp a GT RD..) = tres bien
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Old 10-10-22, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by ehcoplex
Just an FYI- Iíve successfully run triples with two SLJ FDs that arenít triple-specific (ie, donít have the bigger inboard cage plate).

I also had good luck getting Retrofriction shifters on ebay.fr (in one case some essential bits were missing, but even after sourcing those bits from Wayne @ veloclassique they were still a good deal).

Retrofrictions + SLJ mechs (esp a GT RD..) = tres bien
good to know! maybe will try a double fd if i can't find a triple. can only seem to find the braze on ones.
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Old 10-10-22, 08:55 AM
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ISO Mafac adjuster....

Anone have an extra of these lying around? I just need one. (I know I can find 'em on eBay & from Rustines, just figured I'd check here first......)
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Old 10-10-22, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by ehcoplex
Anone have an extra of these lying around? I just need one. (I know I can find 'em on eBay & from Rustines, just figured I'd check here first......)
Check the nose diameter (the bit that sticks in the lever body) as there are at least two for MAFAC adjusters.
And if the nose breaks (as they often do), send it to me and I'll send you back one with a bit of stainless tube silver-soldered in - which will not break.
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Old 10-10-22, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by oneclick
Check the nose diameter (the bit that sticks in the lever body) as there are at least two for MAFAC adjusters.
And if the nose breaks (as they often do), send it to me and I'll send you back one with a bit of stainless tube silver-soldered in - which will not break.
Ah, interesting... I've got Mafac levers on my PX-10 and on a TH8 tandem. One has the 'big' adjusters as pictured above, the other has smaller ones, but I can't recall even looking at whether the noses of the adjusters were different. I did just measure the one I have here and it's 3.7mm for most of it, but widens to 4.7 at the top, and only the lower part fits into the levers I've got (the ones on the bikes are cabled up & hooded, so I can't compare....). I wonder if it's supposed to drop all the way into the lever?


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