Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

59 Paramount P12 before and after

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

59 Paramount P12 before and after

Old 02-23-18, 02:40 PM
  #1  
trainman999
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 367

Bikes: 83 Schwinn Superior, 86 Paramount,86 Madison,87 Cimeron,86 Nishiki Linear

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked 94 Times in 58 Posts
59 Paramount P12 before and after

As the previous owner found it
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ount-year.html
As I got it+ a bonus photo for those who like Paramounts
more photos here https://flic.kr/s/aHsmbnrftq
100_3978 by galon783, on Flickr
Frame: After Chrome polish , rubbing compound ,polishing compound and 7 coats of wax. an a extra
more polished photos here https://flic.kr/s/aHskwJa49s
100_4036 by galon783, on Flickr

Last edited by trainman999; 02-23-18 at 02:56 PM. Reason: add photos
trainman999 is offline  
Old 02-23-18, 04:49 PM
  #2  
John E
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 20,544

Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1016 Post(s)
Liked 440 Times in 322 Posts
What a classic!
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline  
Old 02-23-18, 07:44 PM
  #3  
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ascending or Descending the NH Mountains NW of Concord!
Posts: 11,726

Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)

Mentioned: 100 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 751 Post(s)
Liked 399 Times in 254 Posts
It is definitely a grail bike for many C&V enthusiasts! Looking forward to seeing it completed and hearing about your ride impressions!
__________________
Bob
Dreaming about riding in NH's summertime!

Visit my websites:
FreeWheelSpa.com orpastorbobnlnh.com
pastorbobnlnh is offline  
Old 02-23-18, 08:55 PM
  #4  
rossiny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 616

Bikes: Trek 970, Bianchi Volpe,Casati

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 278 Post(s)
Liked 50 Times in 43 Posts
Love the blue and chrome!!
rossiny is offline  
Old 02-24-18, 02:51 PM
  #5  
trainman999
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 367

Bikes: 83 Schwinn Superior, 86 Paramount,86 Madison,87 Cimeron,86 Nishiki Linear

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked 94 Times in 58 Posts
I am a sucker for chrome socks and lugs, add my favorite color blue and it was love at first sight the only way it could have been better was if it was a 1956
pastorbobnlnh it is chromed under the paint, but as the tubes weren't buffed completely before plating I think it was meant to be painted. Freewheel says "Regina. G.S. CORSE S.I.C.C. MERATE" 13-26 do you know if this freewheel is from the right era? Do you know any way to tell what tube set was used, 531 or Eccles & Pollack?
trainman999 is offline  
Old 02-24-18, 05:06 PM
  #6  
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ascending or Descending the NH Mountains NW of Concord!
Posts: 11,726

Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)

Mentioned: 100 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 751 Post(s)
Liked 399 Times in 254 Posts
@trainman999, I'm pretty certain that 1959 was the first year for the second generation Paramount when Schwinn started building them from Reynolds 531. This era would run 20 years until 1979.

In 1980 production moved to Waterford, WI, and eventually would become Waterford Precision Cycles. Richard Schwinn is a co owner and maintains the old Paramount records. For a fee of $50 he will research the archives and provide a written report on what information they have on your specific serial number.

Two important Paramount Links.

Paramount History at Waterford

The Paramount Registry Database maintained by BF member cudak666 (only one other '59 listed)

As far as your freewheel is concerned, it could very well be original. I've worked on freewheels with the same or similar lettering and they were definitely from the early '60s.
__________________
Bob
Dreaming about riding in NH's summertime!

Visit my websites:
FreeWheelSpa.com orpastorbobnlnh.com

Last edited by pastorbobnlnh; 02-25-18 at 04:00 AM.
pastorbobnlnh is offline  
Old 02-25-18, 09:58 AM
  #7  
trainman999
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 367

Bikes: 83 Schwinn Superior, 86 Paramount,86 Madison,87 Cimeron,86 Nishiki Linear

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked 94 Times in 58 Posts
1961 catalogue page states 531 , 1956 says customers choice of tubing, in several previous posts on 59’s say choice of tubing, just wondering.
Ordered provenance report on it day I received it will be interesting to see what it says.
Use those two links often researching Paramounts, considering summiting a few of mine to add to his registry.
There is a 59 on Ebay, good paint, bad chrome, optimistic price.
trainman999 is offline  
Old 02-25-18, 07:33 PM
  #8  
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ascending or Descending the NH Mountains NW of Concord!
Posts: 11,726

Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)

Mentioned: 100 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 751 Post(s)
Liked 399 Times in 254 Posts
Let us know what the report says. Someday I'll order ones on my '71 and '83 Paramounts.

The '59 on ebay appears to be the non-chrome model. Up through the early '60s having chrome lugs and stays was an option. That one appears to the basic model, maybe a P10, but I could be mistaken.
__________________
Bob
Dreaming about riding in NH's summertime!

Visit my websites:
FreeWheelSpa.com orpastorbobnlnh.com
pastorbobnlnh is offline  
Old 02-25-18, 08:29 PM
  #9  
trainman999
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 367

Bikes: 83 Schwinn Superior, 86 Paramount,86 Madison,87 Cimeron,86 Nishiki Linear

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked 94 Times in 58 Posts
@pastorbobnlnh
Did you look at this one C 31 its definatly chrome but in poor shape
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Sch...MAAOSwr2xajkOf

Or this one G 17
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SCHWINN-PAR...cAAOSwALhaanhs

And now that I am out of bike cash, this comes up a carbon 9C
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Schwinn-Par...4AAOSw6eZakynN
trainman999 is offline  
Old 02-25-18, 08:34 PM
  #10  
Kactus 
Senior Member
 
Kactus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 2,825

Bikes: 1962 Schwinn Paramount P12, 1971 Schwinn Paramount P13-9

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 344 Post(s)
Liked 26 Times in 15 Posts
Originally Posted by trainman999 View Post
@pastorbobnlnh
Did you look at this one C 31 its definatly chrome but in poor shape
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Sch...MAAOSwr2xajkOf
What I found so cool about yours is the chrome bottom bracket shell.
__________________
Life... is a state of mind.
Kactus is offline  
Old 02-26-18, 05:42 AM
  #11  
Fairview 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 184

Bikes: 1971 and 1972 Schwinn Paramount

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked 16 Times in 7 Posts
What an interesting bike! I wonder how many were being built per year back then?
Fairview is offline  
Old 02-26-18, 05:51 AM
  #12  
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ascending or Descending the NH Mountains NW of Concord!
Posts: 11,726

Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)

Mentioned: 100 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 751 Post(s)
Liked 399 Times in 254 Posts
Originally Posted by trainman999 View Post
@pastorbobnlnh
Did you look at this one C 31 its definatly chrome but in poor shape
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Sch...MAAOSwr2xajkOf

Or this one G 17
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SCHWINN-PAR...cAAOSwALhaanhs

And now that I am out of bike cash, this comes up a carbon 9C
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Schwinn-Par...4AAOSw6eZakynN
I hadn't seen Serial #C31. So sad that it is passing through the hands of storage locker raider. Hopefully it finds a loving new owner. It appears to not be Reynolds 531 tubing and wears the same Chrome Moly decal as do early '60s Superiors and Super Sports. I wish there was a better picture.

Serial #G17 is almost my size, and good thing it isn't because the price seems fair to me.

For shame! To cast your eyes upon a CF Paramount is one thing--- but to mention it in a discussion about your classic '59 beauty--- well, that is just poor C&V manners! Hahaha

As @Kactus mentions, does the BB appear to be intended to be chrome or was it first painted? I've never seen this before. A close-up picture please!
__________________
Bob
Dreaming about riding in NH's summertime!

Visit my websites:
FreeWheelSpa.com orpastorbobnlnh.com
pastorbobnlnh is offline  
Old 02-26-18, 11:13 AM
  #13  
trainman999
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 367

Bikes: 83 Schwinn Superior, 86 Paramount,86 Madison,87 Cimeron,86 Nishiki Linear

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked 94 Times in 58 Posts
Fairview; about 270 in 1959, link to Paramount production
https://waterfordbikes.com/w/paramount-stats/
pastorbobninh, yes BB and seat lug meant to be chrome sun shining here today will get pictures when you see the glow in the sky you will know I got the pictures. Did you look at the pictures in the albums in the first post? I hid 2 bonus Paramounts among the 25 pictures just for you.
As to the CF Paramount I am an equal opportunity Paramount collector 39-99 and beyond I like them all. Road, Track, Lady’s, and Tourist, Accles and Pollock, 531, Slx, True Temper, 753, 853, Titanium, and CF. Some day hope to have one of every flavor.
At 26 is it not vintage? At less than 1000 going to be a harder one to acquire
trainman999 is offline  
Old 02-26-18, 02:01 PM
  #14  
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ascending or Descending the NH Mountains NW of Concord!
Posts: 11,726

Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)

Mentioned: 100 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 751 Post(s)
Liked 399 Times in 254 Posts
I figured out the link to your album later and appreciate seeing more pictures. Chrome on BB and seat stay cluster is certainly a sweet bonus!

I was just pulling your leg about the CF Paramount.
__________________
Bob
Dreaming about riding in NH's summertime!

Visit my websites:
FreeWheelSpa.com orpastorbobnlnh.com
pastorbobnlnh is offline  
Old 02-26-18, 02:16 PM
  #15  
trainman999
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 367

Bikes: 83 Schwinn Superior, 86 Paramount,86 Madison,87 Cimeron,86 Nishiki Linear

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked 94 Times in 58 Posts
Bright shiny pictures,
I am glad previous owner decided to sell and liked my offer. Thoughts anyone, on a Waterford repaint and decals, or do you like the patina as is
100_4057 by galon783, on Flickr
100_4058 by galon783, on Flickr
100_4059 by galon783, on Flickr
100_4060 by galon783, on Flickr
100_4062 by galon783, on Flickr
100_4064 by galon783, on Flickr
trainman999 is offline  
Old 02-26-18, 02:16 PM
  #16  
Kactus 
Senior Member
 
Kactus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 2,825

Bikes: 1962 Schwinn Paramount P12, 1971 Schwinn Paramount P13-9

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 344 Post(s)
Liked 26 Times in 15 Posts
That looks a lot better than I thought from the original pics.

trainman999, did you get my PM?
__________________
Life... is a state of mind.
Kactus is offline  
Old 02-26-18, 02:26 PM
  #17  
trainman999
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 367

Bikes: 83 Schwinn Superior, 86 Paramount,86 Madison,87 Cimeron,86 Nishiki Linear

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked 94 Times in 58 Posts
@ Kactus no on the PM, try again.
I was pleased with how well it cleaned and shined up.
trainman999 is offline  
Old 02-26-18, 02:28 PM
  #18  
Piff 
Senior Member
 
Piff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 942
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 428 Post(s)
Liked 179 Times in 118 Posts
If you have the funds, I vote repaint. Though I imagine it'll be expensive given all the pinstriping of the tubes and lining of the lugs.
Piff is offline  
Old 02-26-18, 02:44 PM
  #19  
Kactus 
Senior Member
 
Kactus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 2,825

Bikes: 1962 Schwinn Paramount P12, 1971 Schwinn Paramount P13-9

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 344 Post(s)
Liked 26 Times in 15 Posts
Originally Posted by trainman999 View Post
@ Kactus no on the PM, try again.
I was pleased with how well it cleaned and shined up.
PM sent.
__________________
Life... is a state of mind.
Kactus is offline  
Old 02-26-18, 03:02 PM
  #20  
trainman999
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 367

Bikes: 83 Schwinn Superior, 86 Paramount,86 Madison,87 Cimeron,86 Nishiki Linear

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked 94 Times in 58 Posts
Kactus no Pm on this end ,sent you one with my email address, maby will go through
trainman999 is offline  
Old 02-26-18, 03:16 PM
  #21  
jj1091
Mike J
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Jacksonville Florida
Posts: 1,609

Bikes: 1975 Peugeot PX-50L, 1971 Peugeot PX-10, 1974 Peugeot PX-8

Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by trainman999 View Post
Thoughts anyone, on a Waterford repaint and decals, or do you like the patina as is
I don't see patina, I just see a nearly-stripped frame. I'm okay with a lot of scrapes and scratches and a bit of rust that I can touch up, and I've restored some that initially looked almost hopeless, but in this case it just has too much large areas of missing paint to do anything but a repaint. Love the frame though.
jj1091 is offline  
Old 02-26-18, 03:17 PM
  #22  
d_dutchison
Classic, Vintage Mechanic
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Posts: 102

Bikes: '65 Legnano Gran Primeo || '76 Holdsworth Mistral || '82 Specialized Stumpjumper

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked 22 Times in 16 Posts
Beautiful bike. I'd say that a repaint which would do this frame justice would run somewhere north of $1000 with masked and lined lugs, masked dropouts, box pin-striping, restored decals etc. I think anything less would lower the value. I'm not allowed to post links yet, so paste this into google for a good series of articles on the topic from My Ten Speeds [should i paint my bike site:www.mytenspeeds.com]
d_dutchison is offline  
Old 02-26-18, 04:11 PM
  #23  
The Golden Boy 
Extraordinary Magnitude
 
The Golden Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 12,806

Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT

Mentioned: 77 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2275 Post(s)
Liked 786 Times in 480 Posts
Beautiful bike- I love the box lining!

With as much of the paint gone, I would want it repainted- but all the exposed chrome has to be preserved and you HAVE to do the box lining. Those chrome lugs and crown and socks are all extras that the owner paid for- same with the lining. This isn't anything you can do half-assed.

Outrageously cool bike.
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*

Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!

"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
The Golden Boy is offline  
Old 02-26-18, 04:57 PM
  #24  
tiredhands 
Sempiternal Newb
 
tiredhands's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Panama City, FL
Posts: 656

Bikes: '92 Trek 750, '85 Univega Gran Turismo, '95 Stumpjumper,

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 231 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times in 8 Posts
I for one think that it looks pretty fantastic as-is. You did a great job with buffing and waxing, and as others said a repaint would have to be a no-expense-spared job. At least you can build it up and ride it while saving pennies for a proper restoration and still have the coolest bike around.
tiredhands is offline  
Old 02-26-18, 06:53 PM
  #25  
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ascending or Descending the NH Mountains NW of Concord!
Posts: 11,726

Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)

Mentioned: 100 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 751 Post(s)
Liked 399 Times in 254 Posts
@trainman999, WOW! The condition of your chrome is just amazing. I can hardly see any pitting. The fork crown appears to be the worse for wear, but even then it is still great considering it is nearly 59 years young!

Personally, I'm torn on whether to paint or simply clean, polish and leave as is. I'd say I'm leaning more towards @tiredhands advice, to build and ride now and consider painting later.
@Scooper here on C&V had his late '30s track Paramount restored by Waterford. The work was fantastic! Stan might share what the cost ran a few years ago. I imagine it would be comparable.

My two cents of caution is this: If you paint, you will probably never recoup the cost if you feel as if you need to sell sometime in the future.
__________________
Bob
Dreaming about riding in NH's summertime!

Visit my websites:
FreeWheelSpa.com orpastorbobnlnh.com
pastorbobnlnh is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.