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Taxonomy of Campagnolo Hubs

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Taxonomy of Campagnolo Hubs

Old 03-01-18, 05:52 PM
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Taxonomy of Campagnolo Hubs

As a result of my notorious Hermiston estate sale purchase last fall, I have a bunch of Campagnolo hubs and skewers in my garage. Some of the hubs were built into wheels. Others were loose. Some of the skewers were in the hubs. Others were loose. Now I'm trying to figure out what exactly everything is and whether or not the things that are currently together actually belong together. I feel like a paleontologist who was given responsibility for a collection of bones that were dubiously grouped by a predecessor.

Sooo..... I know a few people here are intensely knowledgeable about the differences between various Campagnolo components over time, but is this information documented anywhere? Like, is there a web page I can go look at to figure out that a part I'm holding is the skewer nut from a 1973-1977 Record hub (for instance)?

On a related note, most, if not all, of the distinctions I'm familiar with a specific to the skewers. Are there identifiable characteristics on the hubs themselves that would tip off their identity? For instance, if I have a low flange hub with an oil port and a hollow axle, it's a 1034 Record hub, right? Is there anything to look for beyond that (apart from the markings on the lock nuts!)?
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Old 03-01-18, 06:24 PM
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I’m in the middle is selling off my Campy parts stash and could probably type for an hour on this....

I’ll type something up tomorrow...
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Old 03-01-18, 06:24 PM
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on a rear hub the thread will be denoted by decoder ring(s), or lack thereof... later received the threading marked in readable numbers. Oh, you want the code? That would be telling. I have plenty of times before.
Record, or Pre- Record? The early hubs did not show the model name on them.
Overall spacing. 5,6,7?
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Old 03-01-18, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage
on a rear hub the thread will be denoted by decoder ring(s), or lack thereof... later received the threading marked in readable numbers.
Oh yeah, I actually did know about that. So much information.... I don't know how anyone keeps track of it all.
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Old 03-01-18, 07:06 PM
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Velo-Base is your friend.

https://velobase.com/default.aspx

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Old 03-01-18, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K
As a result of my notorious Hermiston estate sale purchase last fall, I have a bunch of Campagnolo hubs and skewers in my garage. Some of the hubs were built into wheels. Others were loose. Some of the skewers were in the hubs. Others were loose. Now I'm trying to figure out what exactly everything is and whether or not the things that are currently together actually belong together. I feel like a paleontologist who was given responsibility for a collection of bones that were dubiously grouped by a predecessor.

Sooo..... I know a few people here are intensely knowledgeable about the differences between various Campagnolo components over time, but is this information documented anywhere? Like, is there a web page I can go look at to figure out that a part I'm holding is the skewer nut from a 1973-1977 Record hub (for instance)?

On a related note, most, if not all, of the distinctions I'm familiar with a specific to the skewers. Are there identifiable characteristics on the hubs themselves that would tip off their identity? For instance, if I have a low flange hub with an oil port and a hollow axle, it's a 1034 Record hub, right? Is there anything to look for beyond that (apart from the markings on the lock nuts!)?
My advice would be to date the hub first by the locknut. Then find the appropriate catalog for the approximate year, and identify the hub model in the "particulars" pages. Old Campy catalogs can be found at several sites on the internet.

If you find something anomalous or extra-catalog-ous, I'd bring it to our general attention.
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Old 03-01-18, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by qcpmsame
Velo-Base is your friend.
VeloBase is my friend, but I don't think it provides nearly the level a detail I'm looking for. The VeloBase entry for the 1034 hubs tells me which year they switched from flat to curved QR levers. Beyond that it's pretty silent.
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Old 03-01-18, 07:44 PM
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Record hubs are Record hubs.

1. The earliest version didn't say 'Record' and are known as 'no Record' hubs.
2. They went more or less unchanged through their demise in the mid-80's
3. Slight change in lock nut style in the 80's when spacing went from 120mm to 126mm
4. Axle color changed from silver-ish to black sometime in the early 80's

Skewers are more or less 'pre-cpsc' and 'post cpsc'. Pre cpsc skewers have a flat handle and triangle/'V' style nuts. Post cpsc have curved blades and mushroom style nuts. Some have acorn nuts holding the blades some have nylock nuts. Pre cpsc blades will have font differences depending the year. Some are more collectible than others.

Campy catalogs help....but they weren't always updated so a little homework is needed. I find eBay is great for research.
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Old 03-01-18, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Ghrumpy
My advice would be to date the hub first by the locknut. Then find the appropriate catalog for the approximate year, and identify the hub model in the "particulars" pages. Old Campy catalogs can be found at several sites on the internet.

If you find something anomalous or extra-catalog-ous, I'd bring it to our general attention.
That's a good starting point I suppose (assuming the lock nuts are original), but one of my main suspicions is that some mixing and matching has been done with the skewers. I'm not even sure the skewer nuts are all matched with the original QR levers.

Ultimately I know it doesn't matter much, but since I've got a bunch of stuff I want to get it as well sorted as I can. I'm looking for absolute minutia, like what the engraved letters on the skewer nut says. I've got a couple that say "Brev. Camp." parallel to the hub flange. I've got others that say "Premium" perpendicular to the flange. Are the latter even Campagnolo? I don't know, but I'd bet someone here does. Then there's the nut on the lever. I've got some with a domed top, some with an open top and some that are recessed with a C-clip.

seeking
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Old 03-01-18, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by miamijim
Skewers are more or less 'pre-cpsc' and 'post cpsc'. Pre cpsc skewers have a flat handle and triangle/'V' style nuts. Post cpsc have curved blades and mushroom style nuts. Some have acorn nuts holding the blades some have nylock nuts. Pre cpsc blades will have font differences depending the year. Some are more collectible than others.
Thank you! This is exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for. I can visually pair up the skewers easily enough, but I wondered if there was a way to get them with the right hubs. There's also the matter of pairing them with the correct skewer nuts. I'll post a picture later of what I've got in the way of skewer variations.
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Old 03-01-18, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K
Thank you! This is exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for. I can visually pair up the skewers easily enough, but I wondered if there was a way to get them with the right hubs. There's also the matter of pairing them with the correct skewer nuts. I'll post a picture later of what I've got in the way of skewer variations.

Record skewer nuts have 'D' rings. Non-Record do not.

Curved blades always go with mushroom nuts.
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Old 03-01-18, 08:00 PM
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Old 03-01-18, 08:11 PM
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Campagnolo Hub bub

And then there is one of these...
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Old 03-01-18, 08:58 PM
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I'm wondering if this is the first instance of "taxonomy" on BF C&V. Based on a Google search, it might be.
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Old 03-01-18, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles Wahl
I'm wondering if this is the first instance of "taxonomy" on BF C&V. Based on a Google search, it might be.
That would be cool but also kind of surprising considering what goes on here.
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Old 03-02-18, 12:00 AM
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So here's what I've got in the way of skewers:



I'll give some description since my picture came out a bit fuzzy.

5-6 and 9-10 seem to be well matched pairs. All of the hubs I have are absolutely Record -- oil ports and they say "Record" on the shell. Two pairs are high flange. Two of the rear hubs are French threaded (one high flange and one low). Two are English threaded. One is Italian threaded. I mention all of this just to indicate the variety.

5 and 6 came from the radially laced wheels on the Urago I posted about a month or so ago. The rear hub there had the "decoder ring" which indicates English threading, right? These are also the only skewers showing any signs of corrosion. The skewer nuts both say "BREV. CAMP." horizontally (i.e. in line with the axle). The nuts on the QR lever are as black as they look in the picture and are domed.

The skewer nuts on 9 and 10 say "BREV. CAMP." perpendicular to the axle. The QR nuts are open on top.

7 and 8 don't match as well as they might appear at a glance. They have the same skewer nuts as 5 and 6, but the QR nut on 7 is domed, while that on 8 is open. 7 says "BREV. CAMP." on the side of the cam facing the camera, while 8 says "BREV. INT. CAMPAGNOLO" on the end of the cam.

2, 3, and 4 appear to have the same skewer nut, but I guess it doesn't belong with any Record hub. Are those from Nuovo Tipo hubs?

And then there is 1, which has a skewer nut unlike any of the rest and a flat QR coupled with a c-clip instead of a proper nut. What is that? The skewer nut on 1 is very conical with a knurled ring that sticks out a good bit. The ring says "PATENT CAMPAGNOLO" and the end of the cam says the same thing.

So, what have I got here?
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Old 03-02-18, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K
2, 3, and 4 appear to have the same skewer nut, but I guess it doesn't belong with any Record hub. Are those from Nuovo Tipo hubs?
I think Nuovo Tipo nut is like #1
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Old 03-02-18, 05:28 AM
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I think the QR #2 is from design exercises later than SR - C Record? I'll have to look, I have a pair of CR hubs.

For me the clue is the tapered end pieces. On the old ones the housing for the QR cam is shaped like a soup pot, and the nut is a nearly complete cone. On the newer ones the housing is tapered as yours is, and the nut is a similar shape. Based on the "old versions" (Nuovo Tipo, possibly Gran Sport) use of the knurled ring rather than the bail or pail handle, I think the nut on #2 is from a C Record era hub that is lesser than C Record, whatever that might be.
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Old 03-02-18, 07:15 AM
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1. If it has a 'c' clip holding the lever its gran sport/tipo and looks correct
2. Newer model...maybe Record maybe not. 'c' says otherwise
3. Pre cpsc...wrong nut
4. Pre cpsc wrong nut
6. Pre cpsc...looks correct
7. Pre cpsc...looks correct
8. Post cpsc...wrong nut
9. Post cpsc...looks correct
10.Post cpsc...looks correct



3,4,7,8 have incorrect nuts. Swap 3,4 nuts with 7,8 nuts. 3,4 will now be correct but 7,8 will not. That's the best you'll do with acquiring more more 'mushroom' nuts.
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Old 03-02-18, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K
VeloBase is my friend, but I don't think it provides nearly the level a detail I'm looking for. The VeloBase entry for the 1034 hubs tells me which year they switched from flat to curved QR levers. Beyond that it's pretty silent.
Understood, and I realized that I sounded a bit flippant in the reply. I think that the information you are assembling here now is a good start on what you actually are seeking Andy. I am following this thread with great interest.

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Old 03-02-18, 08:15 AM
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#1 is a pre-CPSC Tipo skewer
#2 is a Victory/Triomphe skewer
#3 and 4 are pre-CPSC Record skewers with Tipo nuts
#5 and 6 are pre-CPSC Record skewers
#7, 8, 9, and 10 are post-CPSC Record skewers
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Old 03-02-18, 08:32 AM
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[QUOTE=JohnDThompson;20200343]

#1 is a pre-CPSC Tipo skewer
#2 is a Victory/Triomphe skewer
#3 and 4 are pre-CPSC Record skewers with Tipo nuts
#5 and 6 are pre-CPSC Record skewers
#7, 8, 9, and 10 are post-CPSC Record skewers[/]

7&8 have pre-cpsc nuts. If they swapped with the 3&4 nuts then the 3&4 will be 'correct'
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Old 03-02-18, 10:11 AM
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You guys are great! This feedback is awesome.

Can anyone tell me what year they started stamping the threading on the edge of the rear hubs?
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Old 03-02-18, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K
You guys are great! This feedback is awesome.

Can anyone tell me what year they started stamping the threading on the edge of the rear hubs?
Pertty sure that was the same time as the CPSC modifications and the change from "PATENT" to "BREV," so around 1977-8
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Old 03-02-18, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K
You guys are great! This feedback is awesome.

Can anyone tell me what year they started stamping the threading on the edge of the rear hubs?
I've seen '77 with the markings and '73 without..
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