Spoke Help?
 

I've a Campy Record high flange hub. New Sun CR-18 630 wheel.

Advice regarding spoke size and decent quality appreciated. I'm not savvy on the various calculators out there. This is my first build. Planning on getting a truing stand and dishing tool

Thanks!

You likely won't get much of a response for two reasons:
1) all the online calculators out there require accurate hub and rim measurements, and
2) no one wants to give you wrong information that would cause you to waste your money on the wrong spoke length.

What I can say is that when I use the damonrinard.com spoke calculator or the one from the bike school somewhere in the northwest (slips my mind at the moment), the resulting spoke length always seems to be 3mm too long. Your results may vary.

Ok. Thanks. Entries in the calculator is where I'm having problems. Not sure how to get precise hub diameter and offsets. Looks like I'll be rereading Mr Brown and company.

Some of the spoke calculators have rim and hub databases, but I'm not sure if they include 27" rims. Plus, it is always good to do your own measurements.

For the hub, a caliper is handy. Harbor Freight has reasonably good digital metal calipers (inch and mm) for fairly cheap.

https://www.harborfreight.com/6-in-d...per-61585.html
https://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch...per-47257.html

Hmmm, I thought it was $9.99, but I think that is with a coupon that comes up from time to time. However, you can at least get a 20% off coupon.

https://www.harborfreight.com/digitalsavings.html

Anyway, with the calipers, measure the flanges and flange spacing as good as you can. Diameter of the flanges is most important. Otherwise, you can normally just be close for the offsets.

For the ERD, I usually measure my nipples, then assemble nipple (washer?), and two spokes on opposite sides of the rim. Tie the spokes together with a rubber band, or hook the J-bends together, then measure from the base of the nipple to base of the nipple, and add twice the length of the nipples.

I've never gone wrong with spocalc.xls, but garbage in = garbage out

Thanks gents.

This calculator has your hubs and rims already in its database.

https://leonard.io/edd/

This is the calculator I used for my first (recent) build. It walks you through the the measurements you need to make (click on the question marks). Invest in a good set of calipers if you haven't already. I used Roger Mussons ebook for the build.

https://www.bikeschool.com/index.php...oke-calculator

Much appreciated. Thanks!

Spokes: DT double butted. With a high flange hub you can go 4X....I never like the look of 3X on high flange.

If that CR-18 630 is a 27" rim your gonna need like 306's. Just a guess from my 1996 memory bank.

I think I'm getting there. I'm posting a pic of my hub and Edd's calculations. Problem I'm having is it appears to me the distance from the center of the hub to the flange is the same on both sides. I've looked at all the sites with dimensions for Campy high Flange hubs but they don't match what I'm seeing on my calipers. I'm reading a diameter of just under 65mm. The chart attached below states 67mm. The (W) or center to flange based on my measurement is 27mm(left or WL) and 26mm (right or WL). Actually, the center to both sides appears the same to me.

The hub noted on the chart was as close as I could find to my hub (Campy Record).

I plan to use a 3X patterns as the front wheel is 3X.

I don't want to spend $50 on spoke I can't use. Can anyone steer me from here to find the right spoke length?

Thanks!https://www.bikeforums.net/picture.p...ctureid=529111
https://www.bikeforums.net/picture.p...ctureid=529113

Accurate flange diameter and ERD measurements are much more important than the center-to-flange. But best get them all right, of course.

Flange diameter needs to be measured hole center to hole center. You're probably measuring the smallest diameter of the hole circle.
I physically measured one I have here and I get 67mm, with 2.3mm hole diameter.

You're definitely measuring center to flange wrong though. It's not the center of the hub shell that matters, it's the center of the axle. Since that's hidden inside the shell, you need to calculate it. Measure from the outside of the lock nuts to the flange, then subtract those numbers from half the total overlocknut.

On my hub I measure total OLN: 121.5mm
Right locknut to flange center: 37.5mm
Left locknut to flange center: 28.5mm

That gives me
Right center to flange: 23.25mm
Left center to flange: 32.25mm

To be honest, center to flange doesn't require that level of precision, within a mm or so is fine. So that's as spot on as needs be to your chart's C-F numbers. You can trust their hub measurements. Hopefully you can trust their ERD too.

(Not that this will have a huge effect on the calculation either, but I'm not sure why they're saying the CR-18 has a 1mm OSB. The holes are slightly offset from center, but symmetrically left to right. So if they want to factor that it, they should call it a ±1mm, which is effectively the same as zero.

And in case you're wondering why my hub has a 121.5mm OLN, it was probably set up for a 6s ultra freewheel, which would be about 2mm wider than a 5s.)

Based on the chart, with a three cross pattern, considering the nipple do I round up to 295mm or down to 294mm?

3X? Buy 294's and use them on both sides.

As Ghrumpy said, center to flange doesn't matter so much.

I've built wheels with Campagnolo hubs just like those. I've also built wheels with CR-18 rims. Have never used the two together. Just curious as to the reasoning for the combination.

First owner wanted a freewheel better suited for hills around Seattle area so he took the bike to the shop and asked for what's currently on the bike. Don't know what transpired after that but the original Paramount (Weinmann rim and gold tone freewheel) went MIA.

I want to get the bike back to original specs (as much as I can) and purchased the Campy high flange hub and the Sun CR-18 because it closely matches the polished aluminum original Weinmann rim and Campy high flange hub on the front (3 cross pattern). A forum member provided a picture of his and liked the vintage-like look and performance so I went with the Sun rim based on this and other online reviews of the rim.

While Weinmann options were out there, most I found were used. As this is my first build I thought it better to start with a new rim. If I'm not looking at this correctly, let me know. All help is appreciated.

I'm a rookie builder. 3x = three cross pattern. Same as what I have on the front ('74 Paramount).

It will definitely work, and will look appropriate. They are quite sturdy rims, and a bit heavy. If the owner expects quicker acceleration there are a couple of other suitable choices, but they will likely cost 2-3 times as much as the CR-18s.

I think you're fine. Though I prefer 4x with high flange hubs, 3x is, practically speaking, no problem. Millions of wheels have successfully survived being laced 3x.:)

I agree with your choice to have it match the front wheel's spoking pattern too. A pair of wheels should look like a pair of wheels.

No rim is perfect, but I've built and ridden many wheels with CR-18s and they are a good rim, and good value for money. Since this is your rookie build, starting with a new rim is a very good idea. If you ever come across a NOS Weinmann to match the front, chances are you could swap it over without relacing the wheel.

Modern production rims build up much easier and nicer than old 70's and 80's rims.

Gentlemen, thanks again for the help.

One last question, the spoke calculator states the hole is 2.3mm. The DT Champion spokes I plan to use are 2.0mm (294mm length).

Good to go?

Yep. That's the standard spoke hole size. Almost all spoke holes are 2.3mm since a long time ago. Hubs for tandems sometimes have bigger, holes for racing bikes sometimes smaller.

Since we like pics, here's a few of the subject bike and the rear wheel I'm trying to replace. She only had one owner I thought took pretty good care of the bike with the exception of "losing" the original rear wheel. I know the brake cables were gray but went with black instead. That's the original cloth bar tape. Other than the brake and derailleur cables and housings (and the new rear wheel I'm building) everything else is stock. Also, she's a rider. Only 10-15 mile rides but still gets used:
https://www.bikeforums.net/picture.p...ctureid=529116
https://www.bikeforums.net/picture.p...ctureid=529117
https://www.bikeforums.net/picture.p...ctureid=529118