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Modern Campy Advice Please

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Modern Campy Advice Please

Old 03-18-18, 12:21 PM
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tarsi 
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Modern Campy Advice Please

Hi all,

Been looking at new Campy components and starting to plan for a possible upcoming grail build (Bianchi Ti Mega Tube). Although the new carbon cranks look stunning on the darker frames, I can't see mounting them on a celeste bike which is what mine would be. The carbon shifters and derailleurs I can live with as they would match the carbon fork I'd put on it. IMHO however, carbon cranks would just look wrong.

Having said that, this leaves a fairly limited selection of new alloy cranks, all of which are Power Torque vs the higher-end Ultra Torque. Aesthetics-wise, my preference would be the CX 11X (https://www.raceviewcycles.com/compo...-36-46-x-170mm). Whatever crank I go with, this will be a mixed build comprised of an odd-ball crank and most likely Record for everything else.

What do you guys think? I've also toyed with the idea of a nice 9 Speed Record Titanium group. Any advantages/disadvantages of going new vs old, mixed vs complete set, mixing CX crank with road components, Power Torque vs Ultra Torque etc..?
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Old 03-18-18, 12:34 PM
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I put Athena-11 on mine (a steel SLX celeste frame), just as it was being phased out by Crampy. I think it is worth it not to have a bunch of ugly overpriced black plastic. Powertorque is, however, an idiotic design. If I ever have to take it off, I am resigned to paying someone at a bikeshop who has the gear-puller tool. That CX crank looks really nice, and will look great on your frame.
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Old 03-18-18, 01:17 PM
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I know I post pics of this bike a lot, but its my favorite build


The build kit is all over the map but it works together in a cohesive fashion
  • I had to have a square taper crank, but I wanted compact, so I scoured the web until I found a Cantaur compact crank - 34/50
  • Centaur carbon 10 speed RDR (these centaur parts are from the early '00's I believe)
  • I think the FDR is a Record - vintage unknown
  • Shifters/levers are modern Veloce - picked for the white hoods and 10 speed compatibility
  • brake calipers are a NOS set of Chorus units from the mid 90's

Wheels are non branded take offs from a Campy equipped Felt from a couple of years ago, -- one of the "heritage" type bikes

Nothing matches, yet everything looks good and works well together ------ I wont claim the Thomson cockpit ensemble actually looks good, but twas' picked for their performance first and foremost

Its your bike - have fun with it (But make it tasteful -- LOL



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Old 03-18-18, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by DMC707 View Post
...I wanted compact
Yes, compact is almost a must for me as well with at least a 11-28 cassette. Legs aren't what they used to be
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Old 03-18-18, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by tarsi View Post
Yes, compact is almost a must for me as well with at least a 11-28 cassette. Legs aren't what they used to be

I know that this frame would be a grail build for me as well, ----- I likely wouldn't put a carbon fork on it though --- it was good enough for Evgeni Berzin and the Gewiss-Ballen team in that time frame , so its still darn good enough for me

I hate to say it though ----- in another thread , I innocently posted up a pic of my old truck from the 70's because the paint scheme matched one of our poster's bikes ------ then went n craigslist to see what old Chevy trucks cost -------
There is a shocking difference in price between a vehicle that is "good enough" and one that is "perfect"

7 Speed to 10 speed. Upgrade my Ciocc.


Pint being -- your not going to lose 10k or more in value by doing it your way with a classic bike in most cases, so have fun making it your own and ride the heck out of it
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Old 03-18-18, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by DMC707 View Post
Pint being -- your not going to lose 10k or more in value by doing it your way with a classic bike in most cases, so have fun making it your own and ride the heck out of it
Agreed. The modern components (especially the compact cranks) are for nothing else but to "ride the heck out of it!" The decision to go with carbon forks is solely aesthetic to coordinate with the carbon RD and shifters. The original fork won't be going anywhere just incase I change my mind down the road.
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Old 03-18-18, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by tarsi View Post
Yes, compact is almost a must for me as well with at least a 11-28 cassette. Legs aren't what they used to be
Triple. Needs I say more?

I actually prefer the second generation Campy stuff to the latest. I like the way the silver new stuff looks, but the silver groups don't have the micro-ratcheting front shifter, which is way better than indexed shifting for triples.

But if you like compact doubles, let me suggest that Potenza would look great on that bike. Here's my evidence:

A Classic Speedvagen with Silver Components | The Radavist
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Old 03-19-18, 07:27 AM
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I agree, silver Campy can go a long way; keeping some around would have been a good idea, but they have to make a living, I guess.

Re: the Power Torque cranksets, yes, poor maintenance design, but a $4.95 3-prong puller from Harbor Freight and the Octalink crank pulling insert worked together to pull mine off with ease, this after LBS broke 2 Park tools designed just for the task.

Grey 10sp Centaur would look great on that frame.
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Old 03-19-18, 08:00 AM
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I seem to remember reading somewhere recently that Campy is ditching the Power Torque and everything will be Ultra Torque. Anyway, I’m with you in the opinion on the look of the alloy crank. There was a recent thread on Paceline with long term reviews of Potenza and people seem to like it. I have one bike with Super Record 11 and it’s good but IMO doesn’t particularly stand out as light years better than the 8 and 10 speed stuff I have. As Andy said, Racing Triple would be an option if you can’t find an acceptable alloy compact crank.
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Old 03-19-18, 08:34 AM
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Thanks for all the great info/suggestions everybody.

One thing I found during my research is that some groups don't allow for shifting more than one gear at a time. Still trying to determine which groups/years do allow multiple gear shifts as that is definitely a "must have" for me.

Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
Grey 10sp Centaur would look great on that frame.

Last edited by tarsi; 03-19-18 at 08:48 AM.
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Old 03-19-18, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by tarsi View Post
Thanks for all the great info/suggestions everybody. One thing I found during my research is that some groups don't allow for shifting more than one gear at a time. Still trying to determine which groups/years do allow multiple gear shifts as that is definitely a "must have" for me.
SR, Record and Chorus all years. The first years of 11sp Athena also had Ultrashift (multiple shifts) but only in black Ergos....I think 2010 was the last year. In 10sp I believe that the 2nd gen style levers are all Ultrashift though I could be wrong on some of the lower stuff...but I know all the Centaur were and some Veloce as well. There are 3rd gen (11sp style) 10sp Ergos but they are all Powershift (single shift per lever movement).

Also, there are alloy Ultra-torque cranks out there....Athena 11 for the first few years, Centaur 10, etc.
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Old 03-19-18, 09:07 AM
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Potenza cranks are now ultra torque. A recent change. They are blocky looking and not quite shiny but would suit that frame pretty well.
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Old 03-19-18, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Chrome Molly View Post
Potenza cranks are now ultra torque. A recent change. They are blocky looking and not quite shiny but would suit that frame pretty well.
Ok, so what's the advantage of Ultra Torque over Power Torque? The CX11 crank which I prefer from an aesthetics point of view is Power Torque.
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Old 03-19-18, 11:22 AM
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Practically speaking the only difference is that you can remove ultra torque crank sets without a gear puller

If you are willing to build the right tool based on a harbor freight Pittman arm puller then pt cranks can be removed with relative ease. The puller is less than $10 and just needs some mild grinding to work well. You might save more than that in the purchase price of pt vs ut...
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Old 03-20-18, 11:37 AM
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I'm not real sure what's being asked versus what's being answered here. I have looked quite a bit for silver Record CT (50/34 compact) and I don't think I've seen any. Record triples in silver and 10s are out there, I think I've bought three over time. In Compact you can find silver Centaur, silver Chorus (more rare), silver Veloce, and ... maybe Mirage?

Essentially you cannot build a compact geartrain on a Campy standard road double 53/42 or 53/39 crankset. Same for a 52 tooth main ring. The reason is that the basic idea is to have two chainrings spread out far enough to allow a traditionally "high enough" hard gear paired with a small chainring that is as small as front derailleurs can shift. The resulting 50/34 has a 16 tooth spread. On a standard double the minimum is 39. With that the big ring would have to be 55 teeth. To limit the upper gear range to 100 to 105 (I think this is also one of the "principles" of a compact), the small rear sprocket has to be (27" rear diameter) 14 teeth.

The Campy idea of a wide range cassette has been 13-29 (more recently 12-30, for an 18 tooth spread), so the large rear sprocket would likely be around 34 teeth.

So the "big granny compact" with wide range would look like 55/39 front and 14/34 rear. Not so shocking I guess, but are the parts available? Can the rear derailleurs handle it? And the larger front and rear chainrings means extra weight.

So to the OP, if you need more range with Campy, you'd be well off to go with Campy Veloce CT parts with a 13-29 cassette. Alternatively (and with a Campy long-cage rear derailleur) go with a Campy Mirage to Record 53-39-30 triple in the front and a 13-29 cassette in the rear. For either approach, the silver Veloce derailleurs are excellent.
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Old 03-20-18, 12:02 PM
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Tf you talking about?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-...&ul_noapp=true

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Old 03-20-18, 01:06 PM
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I try to stay with silver components for a classic build but in this case the color sets off very nicely against the carbon Athena cranks...

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Old 03-20-18, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by kansukee View Post
I try to stay with silver components for a classic build but in this case the color sets off very nicely against the carbon Athena cranks...
Very nice. Now you have me wondering how carbon would look against celeste....
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Old 03-20-18, 01:17 PM
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If you're going to put a carbon crank on that frame I actually think it will still look good with all modern parts.
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Old 03-20-18, 01:51 PM
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I like Racing T triple cranksets. Pretty, silver, square taper, and more range for my fat, out of shape legs on hills.
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Old 03-20-18, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
I'm not real sure what's being asked versus what's being answered here. I have looked quite a bit for silver Record CT (50/34 compact) and I don't think I've seen any. Record triples in silver and 10s are out there, I think I've bought three over time. In Compact you can find silver Centaur, silver Chorus (more rare), silver Veloce, and ... maybe Mirage?
Record CT was only made in carbon, both square taper and Ultra-torque. I believe that is the case for Chorus as well....I've certainly never seen an alloy Chorus CT crank. Athena 11 CT exists in silver alloy though it is Ultra-torque rather than square taper but after a couple of years Athena changed to Power-torque.
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Old 03-20-18, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Choke View Post
Record CT was only made in carbon, both square taper and Ultra-torque. I believe that is the case for Chorus as well....I've certainly never seen an alloy Chorus CT crank. Athena 11 CT exists in silver alloy though it is Ultra-torque rather than square taper but after a couple of years Athena changed to Power-torque.
Yes, I think this is correct, thanks for the correction.
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Old 03-20-18, 06:44 PM
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The later (2016+ I think) Potenza PT cranks are self-extracting, so no more issues removing the cranks and no special tools needed. Replacing the bearings is another matter.
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Old 03-21-18, 11:42 AM
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How big of a deal is the Ultra shift (Chorus, Record, SR) over the Potenza's Power shift? I am used to Ultegra shifting. Will I be disappointed?
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Old 03-21-18, 12:52 PM
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Ultra-shift will allow you to shift up 5 sprockets at a time (towards the small sprocket) and down 3 sprockets at a time (towards the largest sprocket. I *think* those are correct, but if I'm wrong someone will come along with the correct info.

Potenza, again I *think* is one at a time up or down.

I believe that all shimano shifting is one sprocket at a time, up or down. So yes, you will see a difference between ultra-shift and ultegra.

I have ultra-shift and it is nice to press the lever twice and shift 2/3rds of the rear sprocket, especially coming down off a descent and beginning another climb immediately. Same at the top of a hill, you can shift from the largest cog in the back to the smallest, with 2 presses of the lever. You get used to that flexibility very quickly and won't want to give it up.
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