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Retro Roadie braking joy

Old 03-20-18, 03:19 PM
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Andy_K 
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Retro Roadie braking joy

There are a few old threads about this, and I dug one up recently to verify that other people had successfully done this. I'm just so happy with the results the I had to share.

I've got a 1970's Stella that requires short reach nutted brakes. I wanted to build it up with modern components (because I'm just degenerate like that), but I didn't want to drill anything (because I'm not a total degenerate). Solution: Potenza brakes with the front swapped to the rear and replacing the pivot bolt on what now becomes the front brake with a long bolt from Tektro intended for nutted use.

I'm very happy to say that the replacement pivot bolt fits perfectly!





Incidentally, every dual pivot caliper brake I've looked at (Tektro, Campagnolo, and Shimano) all have the exact same design right down to the set screws to keep the bolts from coming loose, and they all seem to use the same size pivot bolts. What's the story there? Did someone patent this long ago with these specific features, or is someone paying royalties? I found a Campagnolo patent from 1992, but wasn't Shimano making dual pivot brakes before that?
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Old 03-20-18, 04:06 PM
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Glad to see you're getting that old lady up and running!

Just don't let the patent police near your garage...
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Old 03-20-18, 05:31 PM
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pads are backwards
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Old 03-20-18, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by droppedandlost View Post
pads are backwards
Ah! Good catch. Thanks.

Do you remember when I sold you those Athena brakes I said it would keep me from the temptation of trying to do this with them? At least I didn't put them on the De Rosa.
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Old 03-20-18, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by droppedandlost View Post
pads are backwards
Dunno, Andy keeps telling me he feels as if he's riding backwards sometimes.
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Old 03-20-18, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
Do you remember when I sold you those Athena brakes I said it would keep me from the temptation of trying to do this with them?
I guess we can't save them all. I really really like where they are now.
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Old 03-20-18, 07:36 PM
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Yeah, that's a good solution. Nice to have modern brakes.

I did the "front to rear switcheroo" on my Schwinn. I lucked out since the fork is a replacement that takes a recessed nut. All I had to do was get a 30mm nut instead of a new pivot bolt.
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Old 03-20-18, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by droppedandlost View Post
I guess we can't save them all. I really really like where they are now.
Nice! Have a missed a post showing full pics of that bike?
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Old 03-20-18, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
Nice! Have a missed a post showing full pics of that bike?
No, still no bar tape since I haven't ridden around the block yet to make sure it works
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Old 03-21-18, 01:42 AM
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Did the front/rear caliper swap on my gugie-repaired '74 Paramount. Since the fork had been previously drilled for recessed nut calipers, this was a thankfully easy task. Now I can stop with ease...and NOW. Can't be overstated how nice it is to have tremendous braking ability.
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Old 03-21-18, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
I found a Campagnolo patent from 1992, but wasn't Shimano making dual pivot brakes before that?
Modern dual-pivot calipers are quite similar to each other, but the dual-pivot concept is much older. Gerry Burgess, Weinmann, and Altenburger all had dual-pivot calipers on the market by the late 60s or early 70s.

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Old 03-21-18, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
Modern dual-pivot calipers are quite similar to each other, but the dual-pivot concept is much older. Gerry Burgess, Weinmann, and Altenburger all had dual-pivot calipers on the market by the late 60s or early 70s.
Thanks for the picture. I had read about early Altenburger dual pivots, though I hadn't seen any of these older brakes. The thing I'm curious about, though my question got at very poorly, is that the patent system seems to allow protection of relatively minor innovations within the design (as is illustrated by the fact that Campagnolo was awarded a patent for this in the early 90's: https://patents.google.com/patent/US5425434A/en).

There are, of course, minor variations between current brakes, but there is such consistency between them that substantial pieces are interchangeable between products from different companies. I'm not a lawyer and I'm sure there must be some reason for this, but it boggles my mind how the slant parallelogram patent was able to hold the industry back for as long as it did, but from the time dual pivot brakes became popular everyone has used the same design. Is it just that while minor variations can be patented only major variations are actually enforced?
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Old 03-21-18, 12:45 PM
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I think that looks great and wish I had the replacement brake bolt to do something like that for a similar project I had. What I did instead was a little different. I had an early (2001ish) set dual pivot brake calipers. In those days, Campagnolo used dual pivot in the front and single pivot in the rear. So I couldn't get the benefit of using the rear in the front like this.

What I did was use a longer nut to use the front dual pivot in the front. For the back, couldn't figure out how to use the matching (but single pivot) in the rear. I agonized for a while (and maybe would have used a longer bolt if I could get one). But then I realized that if the matching rear was single pivot, I could just use an old single pivot caliper in the back. They don't match, but there is no performance loss. And the back is period correct, and only the front has been upgraded to dual pivot. At least the front is also silver aluminum, like in this example, so it isn't too jarring, even if a bit of a mismatch.

When I have more posts, maybe I can post a picture of my retro-roadie project.
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