Early Columbus decal, from when?
 

I'm researching an older Bottecchia from approximately 1970. Can anyone tell me more about the Columbus decal below? Is the tubing SL or something earlier? Rinforzati means reinforced. Does this simply mean butted? Does it imply helical reinforcements?


http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...psny6xrsb2.jpg

I'm definitely not an expert on these decals, lol, but I did own an early '70s Bottecchia Professional for a short while. Mine was a cool blue color. The ones like yours, with just an outline of the dove, preceded the ones with a white dove. I want to say your decal is from the '60s, but I could easily be wrong. 🤔 Other folks here know way more than I do, so wait for them.

Whatever you do, be careful of that paint. It falls off if you look at it wrong. 😲
EDIT: Classic Rendezvous has a chart of Columbus stickers, showing yours as "very early" , then the white dove ones for late-60s to early-70s.

Thanks,


Was the headbadge on your Professional like this?

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...psvg68z2nk.jpg

Nope, my headbadge was either painted on, or a decal, and the colors were all melted together, to the point you couldn't easily tell it was a bird. 😯 That one's in great shape, especially for it's age.

This webpage dates the decal specifically to 1970: https://cyclesroland.wordpress.com/2...-timeline/amp/


Can anyone verify this?


Where can I find a summery of models and additional information on Bottecchia from 1970?

This headbadge appears to be riveted on.

Tubing decal from my early 70s Bottecchia Giro 'd Italia.
I don't know the exact year of the bike.

Actually, your decal is a bit different from CR's "very early" one. Hard to know which is earlier. This is getting interesting. 🙂
EDIT: Yep, if your link is correct, you nailed it down to 1970. The black oval around the dove is the give-away, for me. You definitely have to look close.

I came across this while searching for another site that I called had info on Columbus tubing. The “Doppio Spessore” on the later stickers means double butted I believe.

https://cyclesroland.wordpress.com/2...ecal-timeline/

This is the site I was looking for but it is hard to navigate around.

Columbus tubing full catalog circa late 1970's

Note to @Barrettscv -
My bike has the white circular CARNIELLE sticker below the TT. Same headbadge. Same black&white checkered squares on the top tube. Universal brakes, maybe not the same model (no red paint fill-in on mine). Mine has script "Giro'd Italia" between b&w squares.


The rumor I heard was that the top 2 frames were identical. Maybe fork, too.


Mine is 58.5cm square (ctc) with a 16cm HT. Record RD & Campy shifters, Nervar Star crank.
It was purchased new in western Canada in Spring of '72or'73, original owner wasn't sure.
edit: Came with tubular wheels, which owner switched to clincher.


Wondering how yours might differ? Can't judge your frame size from the above pic.

The bike I'm considering is identical to the model you're describing in every detail, including the size. Thank you for the help.

The head tube is a bit shorter than I prefer on a level top tube bike. But I have the flexibility to make it work without raising the stem an excessive amount.


I find the bike immediately wanted me to go faster - which I attribute to 'new bike' enthusiasm and the slightly more aggressive position. However, with a (mismatched) set tubular wheels with 22mm tires it was confirmed that this bike likes to go fast where pointed. I have the chainstay length at 43, about mid-point in the long dropouts. I would call it a keeper, in my group at least. I have yet to tear down and re-build completely which will only make it smoother. Did change the wheels.


Let me go look for a pic or 2, but only it because it possibly matches yours.

Despite the OP's decal style being unique to 1970, the bicycle could be newer. The Italians were notorious for poor stock rotation, especially during the boom. It's very possible that they just dumped the new Columbus decal stock on top of any remaining stockand didn't get down to the old stock until years later.

The decal indicates the tubing is double butted, likely Columbus SP, given the size of the frame. The only helical ridges would be inside the bottom of the fork's steerer tube.

As noted, the Professional and Giro d'Italia used the same frame. Given the headset, the OP would appear to have the latter.

Other dating clues can be obtained from the patent date on the rear derailleur and the dates stamped into the back ofthe hub locknuts, assuming they are OEM.

The script on the driveside of the top tube was flaking off badly, so i removed the little remaining. Much better on the non-drive side.
Saddle not original.
I haven't researched what tubeset was used.

Agree with all above. Thanks for the tubing confirmation, but wondering if it might be mixed (SL stays?).
Haven't checked mine for helical ridges in steerer, nor date codes on hub locknuts (which should be original on mine).
On the Record RD, I read at VeloBase (i think) that Record RDs were out of production around 1970. I don't see a PAT year, only 13-36 on the inner arm.

edit: I should have done more research but my Batavus and Zeus are screaming to get finished.

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Barrettscv -

Headset on bicycle in your photo is Way-Assauto.

Brakeset is Universal Sport (not 61). Dimensions are identical to those of model 61 but spring stops on caliper are different. Sport caliper has rougher finish.

Would expect chainset to be Peyrard's NERVAR Star.

The Berthet pedals are a nice touch; must have been fitted by a previous owner.

If machine a '70 would expect Carnielli stem to have exposed hex head expander. By '72 they were coming through with 3TTT Record stem & bar sets.

I believe the last year for the Record rear derailleur was 1973. It never did have the patent date code, at least on any that I've seen. I keep forgetting that the very early 1970s Gd'I used the Record as one of the cost concessions. Only the Nuovo Record had the patent date code, and only from 1970 onwards.

Most manufacturers started moving from SL to SP around the 58-60 cm frame size. It would be nice to think that the transition range used SL with SP down tube and chain stays but that would be improbable on a production frame of this era. You could always try to determine SL vs. SP via the post size.

It should have the helical ridges in the steerer tube, though they can sometimes be hard to see on the older models, with the corrosion that typically occurs inside the steerer tube.

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On the Record model rear mech one "trade story" I heard from a local distributor's representative BITD was that it had gone out of production and Teodoro asked Tullio to put it back into manufacture for a model he wanted to use it on. Unfortunately the story did not come with a specific date for this action.

If correct, it might explain the difference between the early and late type Record rear mechs. Have no idea as to how accurate this account may be. Just passing it along FWIW.

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The RSC has a 1972 catalog, but you have to be a paying member to view it.

The Professional has a Nuovo Record drivetrain, Record hubs, Universal "professional" brakes. The Giro d'Italia has a Record drivetrain, Tipo hubs, Universal "sport" brakes. Both have are "handmade with Columbus tubing and Campagnolo ends".

I can see the cost concessions - RD, seatpost, Nervar crank, Universal mid-model brake, non-Campy headset.


Seatpost design is the seatpin and clamping saddle-rail attachment. Certainly not lightweight. Measures differently in a couple of spots but none are 27.2.


And to correct an earlier statement - NO non-drive side top tube script Giro 'd Italia

Columbus tubing decals did not distinguish between SL/SP until the mid 1980s. Prior to the mid 1980s, only the base of the steer tube had the helical reinforcements; the main tubes were simply butted. SLX and SPX were the first tube sets to add the helical reinforcements to other tubes, introduced in the mid-1980s.

I have a '73ish Giro in blue. It was purchased with a mixture of parts but retained its original crank, Nervar, and HS. Spirals in the Steerer:
[IMG]https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1600/...f8f03363_z.jpgP1030583, on Flickr[/IMG]
[IMG]https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1575/...a18e8bd9_z.jpgP1030588, on Flickr[/IMG]
[IMG]https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1626/...5bb5e855_z.jpgP1030591, on Flickr[/IMG]
[IMG]https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3853/...65a080d3_z.jpgP1020417, on Flickr[/IMG]
Hung Campagnolo Nuovo Record kit on it:
[IMG]https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1614/...cb3ff875_z.jpgP1030662, on Flickr[/IMG]

I would take those decal timeline dates with a grain of salt. I have a Carabela Professional from ~1975 that has the slightly earlier variation with the double lined border around the dove that they're saying is from '69. I'm not 100% positive on this bike's date, as the Acer-Mex serials don't appear to be well understood. It came stock with first Generation black Dura Ace components, which weren't introduced until '75, and there aren't any date codes on the derailleurs, which they added '76 onward.

Here's my decal:

Thank you all for the replies. The bike I'm researching is identical in every detail to Wildwood's, including size and color. I told the seller yesterday that I'm not going to purchase. The bike would be a time consuming restoration and I don't really need another bike from the seventies. I was hoping it was older.

If anyone wants to buy the bike, I could facilitate. The seller is looking to get $300. It is complete. The seatpost and stem came out easily. PM me if you want more info.

Thanks for the update. Although not a screaming good deal, that's a pretty fair price. Too small for me though.