machinist42

None of the above. But should you choose to ignore my previous post, and commit to an expensive rack, you may want to read this:

"Recovering from shimmy

That shimmy occurs at high downhill speeds makes it especially dangerous. A violent shimmy starts suddenly, and so it can panic the cyclist. The shimmy reduces the traction of the front wheel, so leaning into a turn will very likely cause a fall. Steering to keep a shimmying bicycle balanced is generally still possible while traveling in nearly a straight line. On a winding downhill run, you may be faced with the choice to keep the bicycle balanced and go off the road, or lean it over and crash. This is one more reason to brake before entering a turn.

Light braking is possible while the bicycle is shimmying. Slowing will stop the shimmy. A light grip with relaxed arms is best, to keep your hands on the handlebars, and to operate the brake levers. Stiff arms will propagate the shake through your entire upper body and make it harder to keep control.

Jobst Brandt reports that unloading the saddle without standing up will stop shimmy. I haven't had the occasion to try that, but it makes sense because it reduces the "anchoring" of the back end of the frame. Placing a knee against the top tube also may help, by changing the resonant frequency, but I haven't tried that either." https://www.sheldonbrown.com/shimmy.html

Shifting my weight on to the bars worked for me. The "knee against the top tube", not so much. I use bar and frame bags on the Maserati, (aka "The Pink Bike"), now. I'm a heathen.

Salamandrine 

RE shimmy -

If this is going to be a commute to school and go on fun rides on the weekend, I wouldn't worry about it. Speeds aren't going to be an issue. Be aware of what it is, of course. I've had two PX-10's and neither of them ever shimmied. I never did try using either of them as a touring bike though. I suspect a lot of that reputation may be the result of people touring with heavy bags, nearly all the weight in the back, strapped to an old single stay Pletscher rack. Cuz that's what people did in the 70s... Note that my recommendation was for the new improved Pletscher with double stays and an alleged 55lb max load.

AFA descending - I always lift my rear or at least unload the saddle. At high speeds, my knees will always be pressed into the top tube. This is how I learned how to descend, and it works. Sort of converts your bike into quasi full suspension. Perhaps that's why I've never experienced shimmy. It kind of seems that with the decline of the old velo club system, a lot of this basic technique stuff isn't passed down anymore.

FWIW, most early PX-10s are 72º parallel, with about 60-61mm of trail, and a fairly long wheelbase. IOW, it's exactly the same as traditional British touring bike geometry. My Mercian is exactly the same as my PX10, in a way. This geometry tends to be rock stable at high speeds, even loaded. I stick with it for that reason even in the face of impending uncoolness. The PX-10 is a pretty floppy bike though, between the metric sized tubes and the over generous chainstay crimps. I could see that being an issue. It isn't as subjectively stable at very high speeds as my other bikes.

ballinwang

Thanks for all the inputs! I think I will go with the VO Campeur rack. I'm not so worried about shimmying as I don't go fast anyways with a big backpack on my back. The rack has to look good and be able to carry a medium load. I will keep you guys updated when the rack comes!

dddd

The OP's bike isn't one with anything close to 72-degree angles. Starting in 1973 with the "E" and "LE" variants, frame angles went to 75+ degrees parallel, and stayed that way for several years, finally returning to 73-degree angles in 1979.
Not all PX10's are the same, or even similar, when it comes to geometry!
The OP's bike is low-trail by virtue of it's extremely steep headtube angle, though compensated somewhat by the low-offset fork rake (as is typical of criterium racing bikes).

Shown below is one of these later PX10E models positioned in front of a Holdsworth special having 73-degree parallel angles, so visibly showing the extreme steepness of the Peugeot's angles.
The lower picture shows a PX10LE model with the same angles by itself.

These bikes are extremely quick steering, so I can't say whether any rack is a good idea, but I thought of a front rack as likely being more compatible with a bike (frame plus fork) having low trail. I would be especially leery of any use of a short-reaching stem or of any alternate style of handlebar having a short forward reach to the grips.

Salamandrine 

Yeah, that's true, and to be blunt, I know. I did say "most".

That one looked like 72º to me, so I measured it. (pixel stick, great app) I got 71.5 for the ST and 72.5 for the HT. That's a good straight on photo, but there's always some perspective distortion, which would account for that. At any rate, it's clear it's not one of the super steep 1973 and later models. I'm thinking it's one of the relatively rare 1972 models that came with fancy lugs.

dddd

I didn't get what you meant as to which bike was "that one" that you took angles off of?

The ones that I posted I measured first hand. The OP's bike I could identify as a steep-angled bike by it's fork rake, they are quite discernable from the earlier ones.

I have yet to see a '72 bike with plain lugs and anything other than the older, slacker geometry, but I haven't seen them all.

I put the two bikes close together so that any camera parallax would affect both of them equally.

ballinwang

While waiting for a deal on the Campeur, what 700C fenders.would you suggest for the px10? It doesn't rain too much in SoCal so it would be purely for the looks. Is it a good idea? Would it affect the handling too much?

Dfrost 

Fenders don’t affect handling at all, but they add lots of versatility, at least for those of us with weather variations.

We can’t see that you’re in SoCal. You can add that info in the block on the left in the “User CP” section.

mountaindave 

Re fenders: if you are going VO Campeur rack, I would go with VO fenders as well. Choose something at least 10mm larger than the tires you intend to use. There are other all metal fenders like Honjos and Berthoud, but definitely stay away from plastic. Not as easy to install, but we’ll worth the hassle.

Grand Bois

What's wrong with plastic fenders?

Salamandrine 

Yeah, I don't mind plastic fenders either. I ran black plastic Zefal fenders for years on my old PX10. Never any problems at all, and the bike was used a lot. I think it looks nice with the basic white PX10 paint scheme. With that special blue PX10 and fancy rack, I'd probably spring for some hammered aluminum VO fenders.

Fenders can be handy even in socal, at least during the winter. It's just that the last ~6 years of drought have made that less than obvious.

John E

This tends to be a problem in many butted Reynolds 531 frames of that era. I had precisely the same issue with my 1960 Capo Modell Campagnolo when I commuted to UCLA with a stack of textbooks on my Pletscher mousetrap rack. I had better luck carrying an equivalent weight of groceries in a big backpack. I have not yet tried a rack on my 1959 Capo, which has a plain gauge frame, but the same geometry as the 1960.

machinist42

The 1974 MT-1 (Fiorelli/Coppi) with which I experienced the wobble is Columbus SP. I think for the most part it's in the geometry, but the tubeset certainly could play a factor in augmenting the phenomenon.

I slapped a seat tube rack on the bike because I'm rather fond of ultra-light bikepacking. TABR is coming up and well nigh no one uses a touring bike for the cross country race. I think I understand why a light load in the rear is favoured by the racers, with frame and front bags carrying most of the gear.

I want to emphasize that I did not experience "a slight shimmy at high speed". The front wheel violently wobbled at a relatively low speed, when my weight came off the bar. This is why I suggested the OP try weighting down the rear of his PX-10 before committing to a major investment in a rear rack. (You know, an experiment? Some cable ties, a couple of two by fours and a brick or two? Science rather than speculation?)

But, as is said, "whatevs".

mountaindave 

They don’t plane for me.

ballinwang

So I'm probably going to pick up the VO FENDERS. Should I go with Hammered or normal? 35mm or 45mm with 28 tires? Thanks!

mountaindave 

I bought 45mm fenders for 38mm tires (7mm difference) and wish I had gone up to 50mm. But I see more rain and mud up here in the NW Rockies. There are those who would be fine with only a 7mm difference, such as the 35/28 combo you have suggested - others (me included) not so much. Some worry about clearance for the odd pebble that gets picked up.

Smooth fenders in 37 mm would be better, slightly cheaper, still look great while being period correct.

FWIW, fenders are also great for keeping the dust out of your running gear while exploring dirt paths. Dirt gets picked up and “splashed” around just like water. We have nothing but glacial till around here that is baby powder-fine and fenders really help.

Salamandrine 

I'd go hammered. It's a French bike. 45mm is a better size for general use.

I have 35. It just barely works with these nominally 28 tires because they are really 25.5 on these rims. I only went this route because originally I was going to use 25c tires. BQ did some testing recently which convinced me that any aero penalty from slightly wider fenders is minimal.

Rainy season pretty much just ended, even if pretty pathetic this year in socal, so it might be some months before you could actually test any fender set up.

At any rate this is what the 35c VO fenders look like on my PX. (repainted)

smontanaro 

I'd go normal. A PX-10 is too pedestrian for fancy stuff like that. My PX-10 has fenders, the front is silver, the rear is black. Save the hammered fenders for your M.A.P., Herse, or other high-end randonneur.

Salamandrine 

Normally I'd mostly agree with you. My old PX-10 with original white paint looked just right with plain black plastic Zefal fenders. At the time they were still French made. However, the OP's bike seems to be a slightly fancier than normal model, and a little fancier than normal might be nice. Note the unusual blue metallic paint and fancy world champion stripes everywhere. (if anyone knows anything about this please chime in... )

At any rate the French at one time put hammered aluminum fenders on everything, including basic utility bikes, so it isn't necessarily fancy.

Aubergine 

Baloney. I use the hammered ones on my AO-8, which is as pedestrian as they get.



That said, I think black plastic would look great with a white PX-10.

mountaindave 

I would actually argue that plain fenders are fancier than hammered. Hammered fenders are like textured walls - they hide imperfections. Plain fenders do not have the ability to hide imperfections and need a higher level of attention to make them perfect and to keep them looking new (if one cares about that).

Salamandrine 

Good point. Hammered fenders come pre-dented.

mountaindave 

But don’t misunderstand me, I put hamered fenders on both my Trek 710’s.

ballinwang

The rack came today. Got it for 120 on sale. What size p clamps should I get for the seat stays to mount the rack?

greg3rd48 

I ended up choosing VO Facette fenders for my Raleigh Super Course. I like the French style and they were a compromise between the smooth and hammered fenders. I use 45mm for 28 Pasela PT tires.

Untitled by irishbx4th, on Flickr