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Compass tire rolling resistance

Old 03-30-18, 07:55 PM
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Compass tire rolling resistance

Compass has been independently tested for rolling resistance: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...-jon-pass-2018

I have the Compass 700x32 Stampede Pass on a vintage Cyclocross bike. This bike gets used on chipseal and limestone paths and the tire is reliable. I'll be the first to admit, it's on this bike for aesthetics. It's natural tan sidewall is perfect on a lugged Italian bike with Campagnolo. But it's not a rugged tire for any kind of gravel and my vintage Cyclocross bike doesn't get abused. Several other of my vintage bikes use the tanwall Vittoria Corsa G in either the the 700x25 or 700x28. This is my favorite tire for vintage road bikes.

I have several tires that are faster rolling on chipseal & gravel that are more rugged than the Compass tires. The Vittoria Hyper is a great all-around tire for 50/50 road/gravel. Like the Hyper, the slick Panaracer Gravelking is both rugged and fast rolling. I also use the 700x28 Continental 4000 S II, this tire measures 32mm wide on a 24mm wide rim. The 4000 S II is more rugged than the Compass tire, but like the Compass tire, it's not ideal for challenging gravel. It has incredibly low rolling resistance, however.

The 700x38 Hutchinson Override is fast rolling and is rugged enough for almost any gravel. You can have it all, if your willing to use a tubeless tire that is nearly a slick.
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Old 03-30-18, 08:51 PM
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The Bon Jon would be a great tire to use if you wanted to validate the rank order accuracy of these drum tests. It performed abysmally on Tom Anhalt's drum as well.
Meanwhile, these results don't seem to square with Tour's test apparatus, which on a good surface had the Bon Jon at 6bar seeing lower rolling losses than the GP4000SII at 7bar (Jarno's data has the reverse by about 3 watts).
BQ's own measurements suggest that the drum tests are perhaps inaccurate in how they capture the crr effects of tread compound, and that they significantly overemphasize it.

It's all a big mess. Makes me want to get a power meter, really.

Originally Posted by Barrettscv
But it's not a rugged tire for any kind of gravel
Unprotected tires on rough/loose surfaces need to be wide enough to not have lots of sidewall exposure. I haven't had any trouble offroad with my Rat Traps, but they're also enormous and so rarely need to be run at very extreme drop.

I think Stampede Pass would be one of the more difficult Compass tires to ride on its namesake, if that road is still the way it was last summer.

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Old 03-30-18, 09:01 PM
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But how does it fare on the suppleometer?
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Old 03-30-18, 09:05 PM
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Can be a good tire if you don't care about puncture resistance.
This is what puts me off squandering my life savings.
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Old 03-30-18, 09:06 PM
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I have to wonder if the differences seen on these rolling resistance tests are actually noticeable on the road or just bragging rights. Kind of like which hub spins the longest. Do you really notice a difference?
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Old 03-30-18, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by CV-6
I have to wonder if the differences seen on these rolling resistance tests are actually noticeable on the road or just bragging rights. Kind of like which hub spins the longest. Do you really notice a difference?
Tire style and quality has a significantly larger performance impact than most other sorts of components choices on a bike. Whether it's actually significant is a matter of opinion. My gravel bike sped up by about 1mph when I switched to Rat Trap Pass ELs from the previous slicks that were on it, which had a basic 30TPI casing and used a puncture-protection belt under the tread. I considered that a very large performance difference.

Bearings are much less significant... a different order of magnitude in their effect.
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Old 03-30-18, 09:39 PM
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I’ve been using Compass Extra Lights for a few years now with two flats over that time; one pinch flat I caused when I first got these tires by going too low on air for the conditions while testing tire pressures, the other due to glass on the road that’d get most any good performance tire. Neither was a surprise. And now that I’ve said that I’ll get a flat tomorrow...

Tire pressure matters for longevity on gravel, especially the larger jagged variety. Mind the sidewalls. I’ve found I need less pressure than originality thought for good performance on the road and off. Lower pressure allows the tire to better conform to surface irregularities rather than fighting against them. To a point, of course, and that needs to be balanced to road miles for a given route, etc.

I’ll need to replace my second pair due to high mileage rather than some failure on the road/trail unless I’ve jinxed myself here (I probably have). YMMV, but I’ve had a good experience with them. The cost spread over the mileage has worked out, especially considering I very much enjoy their ride feel. I also coast faster downhill than my riding buddies.

FWIW, the friend I ride with the most has been using Soma Cazaderos for about the same time I’ve been using Compass ELs and has had many more flats over that time. There’s more at play than just tire construction in my opinion.

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Old 03-30-18, 10:18 PM
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Meh. I'm skeptical about some of these laboratory results.

Recently, the German magazine TOUR published a table showing the five fastest tires in the world. We are excited to see our Compass Bon Jon Pass 700C x 35 mm tires on this list, in the company of the fastest racing tires. A 35 mm-wide tire on a list that otherwise includes only tires between 23 and 26 mm wide!
So, is it a just OK rolling touring tire, or one of the five fastest tires in the world?
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Old 03-30-18, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CV-6
I have to wonder if the differences seen on these rolling resistance tests are actually noticeable on the road or just bragging rights. Kind of like which hub spins the longest. Do you really notice a difference?
They'll measure 20 watts or so lost on the drum, but what about the hundreds of watts that might be dissipated in the rider's body on bumpy roads?
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Old 03-31-18, 12:13 AM
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...yeaaaa, putting "compass tires" and "rolling resistance" in the same sentence effectively ignores the point of Jan Heine's existence.

If you want a comfortable, fast tire with decent puncture resistance - you'll love Compass tires.

If you want your tires to roll at x watts +/- 8finity bar demon pressure - you may never find happiness.
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Old 03-31-18, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by CV-6
I have to wonder if the differences seen on these rolling resistance tests are actually noticeable on the road or just bragging rights. Kind of like which hub spins the longest. Do you really notice a difference?
Yes. The Compass tires weaned me off sewups. Great, great clincher tires.
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Old 03-31-18, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by HTupolev
Unprotected tires on rough/loose surfaces need to be wide enough to not have lots of sidewall exposure. I haven't had any trouble offroad with my Rat Traps, but they're also enormous and so rarely need to be run at very extreme drop.

I think Stampede Pass would be one of the more difficult Compass tires to ride on its namesake, if that road is still the way it was last summer.
Yes, the 700x32 Compass Stampede Pass is useful as a chipseal and crushed limestone tire but I would not recommend it for rural gravel roads unless those roads are perfectly constructed and maintained. Strada Bianchi, si! Rural Ozarks, no.

A 32mm wide tire is a good size for the kind of C&V bike ideally being used at L'Eroica events. These include the Peugeot PX10 or Motobecane Grand Record. These models with centerpull brakes and indented chainstays can fit a 32mm wide tires in many cases. Larger gravel tires are usually impossible to fit on most C&V bikes.

For rural gravel roads on a modern gravel or Cyclocross bike, the tubeless 700x36 Donnelly MSO is a good choice. I currently use the 700x38 tubeless Hutchinson Override and the 700x40 Vittoria Terreno dry.
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Old 03-31-18, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by HTupolev
I considered that a very large performance difference.
So over the course of a 6-hour ride, you can ride an additional 6 miles.

Why don't you start your ride with those 6 miles?
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Old 03-31-18, 10:16 AM
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What I wonder is how Compass tires compare to the other half dozen or so boutique re-branded Panaracer tires currently being sold. I'd assume most of them or about the same if not identical. Comparing weights probably gives a good idea of what casing was used.
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Old 03-31-18, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty
But how does it fare on the suppleometer?
You need a special suppleometer that goes up to eleven.
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Old 03-31-18, 12:34 PM
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I would much rather have a 4000 s2 in 32mm than the compass tire tested. The 4000 rolls with far less resistance and is far better than Compass tires for resisting punctures. Compass tires are essentially old tech compared to the 4000 s2. S2 is a much better compound. I have tried compass tires and was completely unimpressed. Better tires are available for ess money. For awhile the compass tires were the only offering in the bigger tire for touring but in the last couple years they have been outclassed.

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Old 03-31-18, 12:53 PM
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Do these tire widths and terrain generalizations on the tires discussed - also apply to their tubulars???


I run:
Schwalbe 30mm (no knobs) for reasonably maintained, hardpack off-road;
32/33mm (with knobs) for lesser maintained off-road or anything off-road with twisty descent.
A mountain bike (clinchers) for anything tougher, choosing either rigid or front suspension, depending.


edit: I'm in the camp that says these rolling resistance figures that everyone worships are nebulous at best, misunderstood by many. Fine for laboratory analysis, mostly useless on the road (unless you are racing at a highly competitive level).
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Old 03-31-18, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine
What I wonder is how Compass tires compare to the other half dozen or so boutique re-branded Panaracer tires currently being sold. I'd assume most of them or about the same if not identical. Comparing weights probably gives a good idea of what casing was used.
Yeah, the appeal of Compass-style tires for me isn't that any part of their construction is all that special, but the combination of features: folding beads and file treads on a light-ish casing with no anti-puncture belts. Paselas tick a couple of those boxes, but you can't get the folding bead without the Kevlar belt. And the decorative sipes in the tread just invite small sharp things to get wedged in and cause punctures.

Panaracer Pari-Motos tick all the boxes without extreme prices, so I am pretty content on the 650B front.

I was interested in the "Fairweather for Traveler" 700C tires at first, but their prices keep inching up toward Compass's.

I scored a good deal on a pair of Compass Naches Pass tires last fall -- gonna try those on my 26" bike soon. If I get addicted to those, I may have to buy a few extras as there doesn't seem to be much like them for that wheel size.
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Old 03-31-18, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
I was interested in the "Fairweather for Traveler" 700C tires at first, but their prices keep inching up toward Compass's.
That's kind of my point. It seems like people expect other 'brands' like Fairweather to be cheaper than Compass, because they aren't the real thing. But they are all made by Panaracer anyway. It looks to me like the Fairweathers are the exact same tire as a Chinook Pass with a different label.

FWIW I ran Fairweather Travelers pretty much all of last year. Nice tires, and they are clearly a step up from Panaracer Paselas. Very smooth ride. Surprisingly good off road. I got some Gravel Kings recently. I'm kinda thinking they're the same tire. We shall see. They don't come in gum wall like the Compass and Fairweather tires though.
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Old 03-31-18, 02:57 PM
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I have 2 sets of Bon Jon Pass tires that I really like.
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Old 03-31-18, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine
What I wonder is how Compass tires compare to the other half dozen or so boutique re-branded Panaracer tires currently being sold. I'd assume most of them or about the same if not identical. Comparing weights probably gives a good idea of what casing was used.
While the Compass tires are made by Panaracer, they are not re-branded Panaracer tires. The design is from Compass, unique to their tires. Panaracer is the contractor who makes them for Compass.
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Old 03-31-18, 04:33 PM
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I love the ride and performance of my 28 & 32mm Compass tires, and recently reached 3000 miles on my first pair! (with only one flat) I have no reason to try any others, and at that mileage, not even cost is a consideration. YMMV... I'm a lightweight and always default to the clean part of the travel lane.

I have not tried their "extra lights" as the standard casing is plenty fast (and light) enough for me.
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Old 04-01-18, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick
I love the ride and performance of my 28 & 32mm Compass tires, and recently reached 3000 miles on my first pair! (with only one flat) I have no reason to try any others, and at that mileage, not even cost is a consideration. YMMV... I'm a lightweight and always default to the clean part of the travel lane.

I have not tried their "extra lights" as the standard casing is plenty fast (and light) enough for me.
Someone here posted that there was a BIG difference in ride quality between the standard and EL versions. I can't say myself, but it might be worth considering since you already notice and appreciate their qualities.
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Old 04-01-18, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine
What I wonder is how Compass tires compare to the other half dozen or so boutique re-branded Panaracer tires currently being sold. I'd assume most of them or about the same if not identical. Comparing weights probably gives a good idea of what casing was used.
That is quite an assumption.
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Old 04-02-18, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by CV-6
I have to wonder if the differences seen on these rolling resistance tests are actually noticeable on the road or just bragging rights. Kind of like which hub spins the longest. Do you really notice a difference?
I think this is one of those things where what you feel is not necessarily accurate. A 23 mm tire pumped up to 130 psi or some ungodly pressure will definitely feel faster than a 32 mm tire at 65 psi. You will really notice a difference. The point, however, is that though the narrow tire at high psi feels faster, it isn't really faster.

I have the Compass Rat Trap Pass (2.3") tires on one bike, and I must admit they feel slow. It is really hard to get over that "oh these tires feel so slow!" feeling. I know, I know, according to tests they are no slower than narrower tires. But they sure feel slow.

Dynamo hubs are the same; if you turn the axle with your fingers, you feel a lot of resistance. If you put them on your bike and ride, you feel this vibration. When you feel these things, you conclude this thing you're feeling must be slowing you down. Tests show that it doesn't slow you down much at all; but it's very hard to believe it.
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