Revracer

Was looking for more range on my 130 bcd double without going triple, added the 38T small ring and spotted the Sunrace 8/9/10 speed freewheels used on e-bikes and wondered why I could not fit one to my vintage to make give it more usefulness in the hills. I wished that Sunrace made an 11-36 7 speed, but alas they either looked like MTB gear sets or were shy a few teeth on either end. I tried DNP and chewed those up too quick. The hope was whether the 10 speed would fit in 126mm spacing...NOPE! Maybe with the 8 speed that Sunrace offers but based on Sheldon's crib sheet, I think it would be close call.

However an $8 141x10 axle and the cold set to 130 worked well on the Ross Utopian. With the price of these freewheels (more expensive than low end cassette) why not go with 130mm freehub wheelset versus an old wheelset? Good question. I guess because I had more vintage wheels laying around than I did freehub wheels and I wanted to see if it could be done. I also either have super modern looking straight pull spoke black freehubs or sexy anodized SR/Campy hubbed wheels, so retro-grouch was order of the day.

How much dishing? I compared the finished wheel drive side spoke to axle nut and there was maybe 1-2 mm more dishing needed on the freewheel. Not enough to worry me.

I used a Suntour VX-GT and it handled the 36T cog with no problem and frankly both the 38-11 and the 52-36 work with no chain slack, and amazing piece of machinery as I had to remove the more modern Shimano Sora I did have mounted.

Today I took the bike for a 60 mile commute. Like all modern tooth profiles, even with downtube shifters, the shifting was so much quieter and smoother than with the Sachs or the Atom I had on before it. No more ghost shifting and I presume the 10 speed chain helped in some respects being narrower. There was some overshifting with the Golden Arrow front derailleur that I am not sure I can limit screw out. I suspect those derailleurs were not made for that kind of spread, but careful trimming and shifting avoids issues depending on where the chain is on the freewheel. It shifted even better than the brand new Sunrace 13-28 I have with my Campy NR with an 8 speed chain, I want to check the width of the cogs and see if Sunrace uses skinny cogs on the 7 speed FW too and then I might try a 10 speed chain on that setup.

Perhaps it is a touring or commuting question, but thought I would post here as we all get another year older, pretty much every year and I read lots of posts about not being able to turn the corn cob gears on the hills the way we used to. I blew a few coins on vintage freewheels with range only to find the middle gears were worn and skipped. I really want reliable for a vintage tour/commute, but I also expect this freewheel will wear much faster than modern cassettes in the tooth profile. Why, I don't know.

There is always the change that set of SRAM Apex brifters may find their way onto this bike with a SRAM RD, but I will have fun with the DT Golden Arrow for now.

rccardr 

Larger issue is the additional strain on the hub bearings (they are far inboard) and the axle itself (it is unsupported between the hub bearing and the dropout). 8 speed freewheels caused many a broken axle back when they were introduced, and I would expect no less of a 9-10 speed freewheel.


Might be better to drop pastorbobinNH a line for a custom 6 or 7 speed freewheel; he can go up to a 34 or 36.

Revracer

I will keep a close eye on that as I am no lightweight at 195lbs on a good day and packing a rear rack for commutes. If this truly fails in that area, I will explore either a custom freewheel (hoping with modern tooth profiles) or will just relent and go freehub since this is a rider that needs to be reliable, but vintage appeal with the other appointments.

dddd

I used a 10mm solid rear axle on my Huffy mountainbke, whose wheels use a 7s freewheel and with 135mm hub spacing.
The axle length had to be great to accommodate the hex nuts and thick aluminum dropouts, but I had a Sansin Tandem axle that was 180mm or so and it has lasted through two seasons of off-roading.

Lascauxcaveman 

That's a helluva commute

bark_eater 

Are the cogs on these new freewheels compatable with older 5, 6, and 7 speed freewheels?

Ferrouscious 

Pretty sure he's not putting on two freewheels on his bike at the same time, so I don't see how that's even an issue.

Road Fan

One measure to reduce risk is to have your frame cold-set to the new dimension (130 old) and the dropouts aligned to be parallel at the new width. It's not a lot of difference, but it will eliminate one source of bending stress on your extra-long rear axle.

If you can build a wheel with a cassette hub, that will be better, but the frame and dropouts should still be cold-set for good alignment and to minimize stress on the hub.

seypat

FWIW, I have done numerous weight comparisons between 2x vs 3x within a company line that has both available. In your case the Shimano 600 series was one of the comparisons. That crank is available in 110/74. I take all of the parts included for each, add up the weights, and get a total. If the 2x has to have a 32t or bigger cogs on back, the 3x setup is the lighter setup, every time. Those pie plate cogs on back weigh more than a 3rd ring up front/spacers/longer spindle. You can usually run a standard RD instead of a long cage RD as well. You can also gear/skew the triple one way or the other and still get the range on either end. With the 7 speed you have, a 52/42/30 12-28 is hard to beat. Want it a little lower? Go 50/40/28 with the same in back. A little higher, put a tighter cassette/freewheel on back.

If you are in love with your 130 and have lots of rings for it, there were/are cranks made with 130/86 BCD. Takagi made some. The Tourney AID was made in both 130/86 and 110/74. The 130/86 will go down to a 28t ring. Here is one.(not mine, but I do have one just like it) The listing says 85, but they are 86 BCD.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1983-Takagi...4AAOSw68lamFi1

Revracer

I try to fit one bike commute per week, 30 miles each way but 4000' of climbing round trip and yesterday had a wonderful headwind which made me appreciate the 38/36.

seypat, for some strange reason I threw weight to the side with this experiment, but your weight comparison is very helpful in considering increasing range on a few other vintage bikes. I must admit, I feel the weight with the 700x32 tires, big freewheel and commuter rack/bag. I have one triple with an Ultegra 12-27 and 30-42-52 that is my travel setup. It has performed very well and I considered duplicating. Having never converted a double to a triple, I assume it would require a distinct triple front derailleur and wider bottom bracket?

bark_eater 

But which way to pitch the propeller on my beanie??

I was asking the question because I might like to build a 5-6 speed freewheel and starting with 10 cogs would give me some options. I would be transferring the cogs to a 5 or 6 speed "core" (the correct nomenclature escapes me). Apologies for the tread drift.

Revracer

bark_eater, I have not undertaken the disassembly to know if these are splined or threaded and if they are compatible with the older "core". If this 10 speed gets to be troublesome, I might try your suggestion and mount them on a 7 speed Sunrace, hoping they are the same. This 10 speed Sunrace does have the higher end gold colored alloy cog attachment / spacer versus some that might actually be plastic.

Revracer

I was curious, so following up with weights on the freewheels:

Sunrace 10 speed 11-36 - 670g
Sachs 7 speed 13-34 - 560g
Sunrace 7 speed 13-28 - 485g
Atom 77 6 speed 14-28 - 470g

So almost 1/2lb more for the gears which was about the same as going from 23 to 32 wide tires.

bark_eater 

Here's the exploded image of the 10 speed.

fietsbob

Separate cogs choice , LBS cog board, was on its way out in the early 80s.. as stocking and distribution costs rose,

Now you just get a complete freewheel as it is.

even back then only the cogs of the same company/brand were swappable within the marque ..

Aubergine 

I had no idea that 10-speed freewheels were a thing. So I did a quick search and discovered that Sunrace also makes 12-speed freewheels.

The mind boggles.

bark_eater 

So that's one vote for definitely maybe not....

fietsbob

Last one giving you a choice, ordered from the distributor, was Sachs-Maillard ARIS , when SRAM bought out Fichtel-Sachs group,
they had no use for the French Maillard division and they went out of business,
Now they are jettisoning all the Sachs Internal gear hubs ... production has ceased..

8th cog a 12t, screwed into the 7th, then 7th to 6th...
you needed 2 chainwhips to unscrew the 12 & 13t to get to the freewheel remover

to even get the freewheel off..

+ the long unsupported axle breaking frequently, makes freehubs the market dominant design this day.






....

seypat

Most of the vintage Japanese FDs I have tried will run on a triple. The main issue is if the FD has enough movement in/out to access all 3 rings. Try them and see. One that will not is the Shimano FD-1050. The 600 FD-6207 that matches that crank will work, at least the 2 I have do. Check the curve on the cage. As for the BB, all you need is a different(wider/longer) spindle.

seypat

You can also find a Shimano 126mm freehub which would give you access to all of those cheap Shimano Hyperglide cassettes with the Mega Range big cogs. If the freehub is a 6 speed Uniglide, just change the freehub body to a 7 speed Hyperglide. Cheap and easy swap.

bark_eater 

Looking at the Sunrace Web page, the cogs on these free wheels are listed as replaceable and presumably individually availible. Cog compatability with previous generations of
Sunrace freewheels has yet to be determined.

jcb3

Those big freewheels are boat anchors

Going to a freehub will save a bit of weight.

Shimano 600 series freewheel hub = 230g
Shimano 600 series freehub = 345g
Sram PG1050 10 speed cassette 11x32 = 300g

So it looks like you save around 150-200 g going to the cassette and will avoid the axle risk @rccardr mentions

Just sayin........

seypat

I just compared the weight differences between the double and triple versions of the crank in the OP's picture. The difference with a 30t version of the Sugino inner ring, bolts/spacers and 121.5 triple spindle instead of the 116 double spindle is 69g. The matching FD will work a triple. If you want a triple specific FD, the triple specific FDs matching the Shimano doubles of that era weigh about 20g more. So, 89g difference.

The Shimano long cage derailleurs of that era generally weighed about 20g more than the standard. In this case, the 6200 series did according to Velobase. With the double, you only have 69g to work with in finding a rear cog setup to match the triple gearing. Good luck with that.

dddd

Even if the axle were never to actually bend, using a freehub instead of a freewheel reduces the flex of the axle and dropout, thus preventing perhaps the most-common failure point of vintage frames at the driveside dropout.
Something to think about if one rides on a precious frame.