Awesome! Are you looking for a replacement fork or using the original? What's the build plan?

Thanks to a sprained ankle which has me unable to run and some slow time at work, I was able to get out on my Trek 660 for ~100 miles over the course of two rides this past week. Coming off a few rides on my Chinabomb (carbon everything, disc brakes), it is surprising just how modern the 660 feels with the updated front end, and just how comfortable vintage steel is. The Chinabomb has 25mm tubulars versus 23mm clinchers on the 660 and both bikes have quite a plush ride (tires are Vittoria Corsa G+ on both so a reasonably fair comparison). The tubulars definitely yield better handling but the Trek is just as smooth of a ride even without the extra tire volume and using aluminum handle bars and seatpost.

That's encouraging! I just ordered a set of the Corsa G's in 25 clincher for it... Couldn't pass on the sale at CC.

Here's where I have to watch out for flames... Purists have mercy... I bought it as a frame with bad paint... It will have SRAM Rival on it, 1x11, and looking for a carbon fork.

The bare head tube is 145mm, so what would you recommend in steer tube and thread length ?

I might need to grab a couple extra tires at that price! Thanks for the tip.

1X vintage steel? You could do worse ;)

Steerer tube requirements:
1. Must be 27mm min/45mm max longer than bare headtube measured from fork crown
2. Threads on steerer tube must end no more than 16mm above the edge of the bare headtube (using fork crown as reference)

So with a 145mm head tube you'll be looking for a steerer tube at least 172mm long up to 190mm. For the 172mm steerer tube, it will need at least 11mm of thread. The 190mm steerer tube will need >29mm, or be increased to that with a die.

Awesome! Thanks for the guidance. I'll post pics when it's together.

I've posted this bike elsewhere but thought it would make a good update to this thread as it demonstrate the max stem height one can achieve with an uncut innicycle headset. The Cannondale below has a 40mm clamp height stem and 50mm of spacers below it, using up every available millimeter of steerer tube on the quill portion. The resulting hood and drop heights are very similar to the original bike fitted a quill stem at its max height (see pic below for original bike as purchased).

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...2e4ff382_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/4216/3...81e10297_b.jpg

@joejack951 Would this work with a 1" threadless steerer tube? Say if I was looking to use a columbus carbon fork,like this

Or is it designed only to work with a threaded steerer?

Thanks!

-Sean

Hey Sean! This product is 1” threaded steerer only. If you are already threadless on your fork you have plenty of ‘normal’ headset options.

Is it for sale in silver?
 

I like how this looks. I see it for sale in black on Amazon, but not in silver. Sorry if this is covered elsewhere, but is it sold in silver?

Does it not show up when searching ‘innicycle’ on their site? If not try ‘innicycle silver’ in Google. Or I can just PM you a link. Definitely available in silver though black seems to be the more popular choice so far.

This might be a dumb question....
So I am supposed to cut the old fork right?
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...682f1fbf08.jpg
Any guidelines on how much to cut off? Or where? Or am I missing some obvious way to get it to slide over the old threads?

Also, how do I cut the "steer tube" extension so I can get that slammed look? There seems to be a seam at the perfect spot, and looking at the drawings above, it seems like it should separate there.

Sorry for being so dense.... :foo:

First, let's be sure you have the headset cups installed correctly. The cups are slightly different for the top and bottom. The easiest way to determine which is which is that in the installed orientation the text will be right side up. Based on your picture, it appears that you have the lower cup installed in the top cup's spot.

Second, the quill/upper race portion of the conversion headset is threaded internally. You should be able to, with only hand force, screw that portion onto your fork's threads. This is the feature that will allow you to preload your headset bearings. If for some reason it will not thread on smoothly, first check that you have 1"-24 threads (you should unless you have a fairly uncommon bike). Next, check that the threads don't have any obvious damage. If they do, a 60° miniature file can be used to clean them up, or go to a shop with the proper threading die.

Third, judging by your pic, your steerer tube may need to be trimmed in order for the INNI headset to fit. In my early posts I detail how the measurements necessary for proper function. I can walk you through that in more detail if necessary. Please confirm the numbers before cutting if there is any doubt!

These are great questions that highlight how badly I need put together a video showing the full installation.

While that seam may look to be at the perfect spot, I highly doubt you have a stem with a clamp zone that short. That said, the shortest stem clamp height for which the tube can be trimmed is 38mm. Most stems will be 40-42mm at the steerer clamp, though. When trimming, you'll want to take into account the height of the 6mm hex cap as ideally it will be flush with the stem after trimming. It is the same diameter as the steerer tube portion to allow for this:

https://live.staticflickr.com/960/41...63b54744_c.jpg

1. To shorten conversion quill assembly, first determine ideal height of stem. If using spacers, install them under the stem to ensure exact height. Mark top of stem position on conversion quill tube.
2. Remove conversion quill from fork, remove top cap assembly and wedge, clamp in cutting guide, and cut 2.5mm +0/-0.5mm below marked line using hacksaw.
3. Deburr cut edges with file, deburring tool, sharp knife, or sandpaper.

As far as the headset separating at that seam, that's where the quill and upper race are bonded together. I can't internally thread the upper race with the quill extending through it so it is made in two pieces.

OK, I will make the cuts tomorrow and post an update.
Super impressed with the quality of the whole thing. Very high end.

:beer:

Can you post the measurements of your steerer tube length (crown to end) and head tube length? I’d like to be sure you are cutting off the right amount :) Your steerer tube appears to have plenty of threads so I don’t see that as being an issue.

Were there spacers installed under the locknut with your prior headset? Pics?

The previous headset, a nice Nuovo Record (which is for sale), had a 13mm spacer.

Steerer tube length 228mm
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e8560fdbb8.jpg

Head tube length 176mm
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...16643ae81.jpeg


So it looks like I need to cut the fork's steerer tube down to 221mm (allowing for the max 45mm difference mentioned above).
In the previous post's picture, the top bearing race / steer tube were threaded down onto the fork as far as I thought it would go. It can go further, but was *very* hard to turn. I've threaded it down a few times and seems to have loosened up. FYI, the threads on the fork are super clean.

Thanks for the pics. On the steerer tube measurement, you want the full tube length down to the fork crown as opposed to the newly-added crown race. The crown race is 3.5mm thick at the flat faces so your full steerer tube length is actually ~232mm.

Your ideal steerer tube length is 176mm + 45mm = 221mm, as you correctly calculated, but as you are measuring from the new crown race you'll actually want that measurement to be ~217mm (subtracting ~4mm for the crown race thickness), or 11mm of steerer removed (roughly the same as that spacer thickness, not by coincidence).

As far as the tightness threading on the upper portion, if you've threaded it on to the end at least a full couple of turns by hand and the threads are visibly clean, you can be confident that it is not cross threaded. At that point, you can clamp on a threadless stem which will make further threading (including the bearing preload adjustment) *much* easier. Always get those first few turns by hand, though.

For reference, the upper portion will thread over ~27mm worth of steerer tube before the steerer bottoms out internally. Don't try to force it more than that but it will need to go that far to preload the bearings so get a sense of what that feels like. Depending on how clean the tube ID is and how concentric its threads are to that ID it can take some additional torque to get it there. On my Trek 660 that was definitely the case but other bikes have only needed extra torque at the bearing preload step.

I posted the wrong picture. :( Measured from the top of the fork crown, the steerer tube is 228mm, and 224 from the top of the crown race.

Time to go make some cuts....

Success! Full build thread coming soon (still waiting on a few bits)
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ca3957c83a.jpg

Awesome! Can't wait to see it.

That Ritchey Pro stem ought to be ~42mm at the steerer clamp so you'll have no issues fully 'slamming' it. The Kalloy stem on my Trek is only 40mm at the clamp. If you go much shorter (i.e. less than 38mm) the top cap will interfere with some internal geometry where the tube transitions from 1 1/8" (28.6mm) to 7/8" (22.2mm).

[MENTION=11954]joejack951[/MENTION] are you still selling these direct or exclusively on amazon now? Someone pointed me to this thread after I made this one on saturday: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-locknuts.html basically looking for exactly this - wish I had seen this before I bought a new headset and adapter stem! I can't swing it right now, but I added it to my amazon wishlist for future purchase.

[MENTION=336334]the sci guy[/MENTION] Yes, exclusively on Amazon for now. Let me know if you have any questions in the meantime.

Gary Fisher 1996 Wahool headset conversion
 

Can I use the innicycle Conversion Headset 1" quill stem to 1-1/8" Threadless on my 1996 Gary Fisher Wahoo? Currently it has a 1" quill stem and a 1 1/8" steel headset.


What other information do you need?


Thanks


Paul (NZ)

Hi Paul,

If your current quill stem measures 1” at the neck then unfortunately the current innicycle headset won’t fit. It is designed for 22.2mm (7/8”) diameter quill stems and their matching forks with 1”-24 tpi threads.

If sufficient interest arose, it is possible to create an ‘oversized’ innicycle headset that would fit 1 1/8” threaded forks and would use 1 1/4” threadless stems. However, I see that as a very slim possibility for several reasons, mainly that there aren’t all that many high quality bikes using 1 1/8” threaded forks (relative to 1” threaded forks) and there are plenty of nice 1 1/8” threadless forks available to allow use of a 1 1/8” threadless stem where a threadless conversion is desired.

Sorry to disappoint. If you are itching to try an innicycle headset, it shouldn’t be too hard to find an older (pre-2000) road bike with a 1” threaded fork in your part of the world. I think you’d be my first NZ customer, too :-)

innicycle headset
 

Thanks for your reply. Your headset is really functional and attractive and I'm disappointed I can't use it. May just have to go with the quill stem convertor which is not as precise.
If I do get an urge to upgrade one of my classic road bikes, I will certainly give it a try.

This also looked interesting - a 1" Threaded to Threadless Fork Conversion search on Youtube

quill stem adaptors
 

Thanks for your input Robbie

I have also used a quill stem adaptor on a Fisher CR-7 that I've owned from new - but it's a little creaky. The mechanic shimmed it and reckons that some of Gary's bike parts were
not too precise.

Coming up against the obstacles of threaded fork conversions for 1 1/8" I will probably do so again, but with a better quality adaptor.

I do like the threaded to threaded conversion as seen on Youtube, but agree that it is expensive and has the detrimental effect of losing the original forks

I look forward to trying the inicycle conversion on my Holdsworth racing bike built from Reynolds tubing

Thanks again

I don’t believe either of these bikes have graced the pages of this thread. [Hint hint]

:thumb:

Threadless Conversion Headset
 

[MENTION=11954]joejack951[/MENTION]

Hello, a very nice product you have developed.

I am interested in one for my steel frame build.

Can you please confirm if the product will work with my frame and fork combination.

See below for dimensions.

Head Tube = 169mm

Steerer = 204mm (with 26mm of thread)

Crown Race / Cup = 26.4mm / 30.2mm

Thank you for your assistance.

204 (steerer) - 169 (headtube) = 35 (good to go)

35 - 26 (thread length) = 9 (again good to go)

So I’ll be honest. I love math, but most people don’t share my warm feelings toward numbers. I am going to work on a printable gauge/graphic that will make all of this a visual exercise rather than a mathematical one. Look forward to a sample or two for approval from the BF panel prior to a wider launch to the public (Amazon).

Awesome. Thanks for the quick reply.
Just want to double check that when 35 - 26 = 9 it is still good to go (as it is less than the magic 16mm requirement)

A simple diagram of a head tube and steerer with dimensions labelled (A, B & C etc) plus a simple equation and requirements would be great.

For example,
Steerer Length (A) - Head Tube Length (B) = Excess Steerer Length (C), where (C) must be between 27mm and 45mm.

Excess Steerer Length (C) - Steerer Thread (D) = Excess Steerer Non Thread Length (E), where (E) must be less than 16mm.

I'll leave the diagram up to you 😀

I've now used 3 of these fine items. I've never measured anything. On one bike, where the steerer was easily 2" too long (fork was from a bigger frame), I used a hacksaw and cleaned up the threads. The general impression I have, is if the fork fits before, it will fit after. One of my friends rides beautiful steel classics, but he has to use a quill adapter and modern stem unless he can find a 90-degree 120 or 130 quill in the right size for the only bars he uses. The Innicycle would look better, in my opinion, and he'd be hooked (if he ever could kiss those Campy headsets goodbye).

On a side note, I've since "sort of" convinced a friend to go with a Y-Foil as a project. The forks are proprietary unless you really know what you're doing, as the bolt-crown distance is about 7/8" longer than most forks. She (I) did not want to be limited to a quill stem on such a unique frame, and let's face it, most of the quill adapters look like an ostrich neck once a stem is mounted. I'm lobbying heavily for an Innicycle adapter for her build, and using my Y-Foil as an example. I've even offered to buy the Innicycle for her, and keep it if it doesn't work out.

Ha! I posted that having just woken up and clearly didn't proofread. The requirement is for the threads to end no more than 16mm above the headtube so whether the correct math is 5 or 9mm, you are still good to go :)

What the <16mm above the headtube is ensuring is the upper race can screw down the steerer tube far enough to contact the upper bearing. The <45mm above the headtube ensures that the steerer tube doesn't bottom out internally inside of the quill/upper race portion. I could only accommodate a certain amount of steerer tube inside of that area before I start infringing on how short the unit could be trimmed for those wanting to run slammed stems with short-ish steerer clamp areas.

As RobbieTunes alludes to, the measurements I selected also (not coincidentally) accommodate most frame/forks without any modification. It is only when a thick spacer has been installed with the original headset (for a touring bike or similar) that the steerer will be too long to work unmodified (see Rocket-Sauce 's posts).

RobbieTunes I'm loving the Y-Foil with innicycle conversion. It just looks 'right'. Keep pushing that friend! I think I know what my next vintage build is going to be...