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Threadless Conversion Headset

Old 09-12-20, 09:33 AM
  #201  
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Couldnít you just beer can shim it?
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Old 09-12-20, 09:40 AM
  #202  
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Originally Posted by joejack951
I'll be in touch. Both black and silver headsets are now available. I'm happy to ship worldwide.
YESSS! So do we message you or will you go through amazon again? I want a couple, also.
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Old 09-12-20, 11:12 AM
  #203  
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I would have probably taken some sandpaper and roughed up the finish a bit over doing the channel locks thing. That plus carbon paste or such.

Worst case scenario is beer can shim but a well made product shouldn't need it.

I have a silver innicycle headset on my trek. I've got a power meter on the bike and have hit over 1300W on a sprint with the bike (hit almost 1450 on a different bike). The handlebars didn't move. I had to work up the guts to sprint that hard because I didn't trust things right after install and think it's generally a good idea to feel things out right after assembly. No issues. I'm running a cheap oem cannondale stem I bought on ebay for like 25 bucks.
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Old 09-12-20, 12:32 PM
  #204  
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes
1 Ritchey WCS
1 Toseak (Mao's)
Neither are tight enough to use a stem to torque down the headset on installation.
I kind of like the scarring idea as a gripper.
I'm not sure exactly what's going on with either stem but I've used a variety of cheap and high end stems and not had an issue with slippage.

The issue with scarring as a means of generating grip is that you are hoping those scars transfer over to the stem. That's the only way they generate any increase in friction. In my experience, this will be a short lived victory. The better approach is to work towards getting full circumferential contact between the stem and steerer which, if my assumptions are correct about the bore in your stems, will require some sort of shim.

Any chance you could send me one, or both, of the offending stems and I'll do inspection to sort out where things are going wrong? Then hopefully I can return the stem(s) with a properly sized shim.
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Old 09-12-20, 12:33 PM
  #205  
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Originally Posted by Brain17
YESSS! So do we message you or will you go through amazon again? I want a couple, also.
Just email me for now. I promise ordering will be simpler in the near future but it's not ready yet.
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Old 09-12-20, 09:29 PM
  #206  
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Originally Posted by joejack951
I'm not sure exactly what's going on with either stem but I've used a variety of cheap and high end stems and not had an issue with slippage.

The issue with scarring as a means of generating grip is that you are hoping those scars transfer over to the stem. That's the only way they generate any increase in friction. In my experience, this will be a short lived victory. The better approach is to work towards getting full circumferential contact between the stem and steerer which, if my assumptions are correct about the bore in your stems, will require some sort of shim.

Any chance you could send me one, or both, of the offending stems and I'll do inspection to sort out where things are going wrong? Then hopefully I can return the stem(s) with a properly sized shim.
I may send the one with stripped threads, but the Ritchey is working fine on another bike. A third stem is in place and I’m afraid to ride the bike at present. I don’t need it to fail on the road. I will return to my storage unit and test it again before I ride it. I may try carbon paste.
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Old 09-12-20, 10:11 PM
  #207  
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Regarding carbon paste to reduce slippage, be wary of Park SAC-1. It's much more aggressive than I'd expected. It basically seems to be broken glass in grease. It scarred the hell out of my carbon frame seat tube and metal (aluminum or titanium, not sure) seat post, and the aluminum-to-aluminum contact of my stem and handlebar.

I have a full tube of that SAC-1 stuff and doubt I'll use it again unless I find something I want to destroy. Or maybe I'll use it as a grinding paste.
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Old 09-13-20, 11:13 AM
  #208  
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes
I may send the one with stripped threads, but the Ritchey is working fine on another bike. A third stem is in place and Iím afraid to ride the bike at present. I donít need it to fail on the road. I will return to my storage unit and test it again before I ride it. I may try carbon paste.
I'm happy to accept any of the stems that have an issue for inspection, and happy to send you a prepaid label for that purpose. I'm extremely curious about what is going on. Can you send some pics of the steerer tube portion of the headset as well? Do you have digital calipers available? What sort of steerer tube is the Ritchey stem working on? Aluminum, steel, carbon, standard threadless adapter?

The only time I've ever had a questionable stem to steerer clamping arrangement was a Ritchey WCS stem on LOOK (circa 2004) carbon steerer. Like most carbon steerers, the finish is as smooth as glass but the main issue is that the steerer tube was undersized so the pinch clamp on the stem was bottoming out at (or near) full torque. That same stem clamps solidly on an innicycle steerer, though.

I mention all this not to try to prove anyone wrong, just to add to the conversation. Weird stuff happens and I've learned several times that the hardest part of designing stuff like this is accommodating the parts for which I have no control (fork steerer tubes and stems in this case).
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Old 09-19-20, 12:14 PM
  #209  
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Originally Posted by Germany_chris
I saw that stem and needed to get one.




It looks so much better sitting on the small head tube and looks almost like a quill on steroids. I agree someone needs to try figure out who builds these then import them into the states.
Very nice— I'm pretty sure Schindelhauer has these custom manufactured rather than ordering them out of a manufacturer's catalog, since they seem to have a great deal of custom parts made to meet their aesthetic preferences— so importing would probably have to be done through them. They do ship to the US, it's just not very economical for the small part like a stem.
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Old 10-10-20, 02:47 PM
  #210  
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I just wanted to say the headset is great! It worked perfect with my VO stem. The lower race was incredibly tough to get on and the fork and race needed a little bit of filing, but other than that I'm very happy.









Last edited by kkleine; 10-10-20 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 10-11-20, 03:17 PM
  #211  
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Originally Posted by kkleine
I just wanted to say the headset is great! It worked perfect with my VO stem. The lower race was incredibly tough to get on and the fork and race needed a little bit of filing, but other than that I'm very happy.
That's a unique build! So much blending of old and new it's almost hard to keep track.

Questions:
1. How much flex are you feeling with that much extension coming off the top of the innicycle headset? It's not worrisome; more curiosity and knowledge for the 'next guy' who wants to do the same thing.
2. Did you happen to take any caliper measurements of your fork's crown diameter? Could it possibly have been JIS spec? I have personally experienced the standard ISO crown race taking a few hard whacks to seat, but I've also seen it practically slide on to some other forks. Seems like the cycling industry has never quite been able to produce decent press fits!
3. What inspired this build? Given the quality of parts used, this appears to be much more than just a 'slapped it together for fun' project.
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Old 10-11-20, 03:28 PM
  #212  
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I have been asked several times for clarification of the frame and fork dimensions required to install an innicycle. This is still a work in progress but here is an attempt at conveying those requirements in drawing form: https://www.scribd.com/document/4796...ork-Inspection

Please, don't be kind but do be constructive. I want this to be useful for anyone who sees it and plans to do the install themselves. Critique away!
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Old 10-11-20, 10:26 PM
  #213  
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Originally Posted by joejack951
That's a unique build! So much blending of old and new it's almost hard to keep track.

Questions:
1. How much flex are you feeling with that much extension coming off the top of the innicycle headset? It's not worrisome; more curiosity and knowledge for the 'next guy' who wants to do the same thing.
2. Did you happen to take any caliper measurements of your fork's crown diameter? Could it possibly have been JIS spec? I have personally experienced the standard ISO crown race taking a few hard whacks to seat, but I've also seen it practically slide on to some other forks. Seems like the cycling industry has never quite been able to produce decent press fits!
3. What inspired this build? Given the quality of parts used, this appears to be much more than just a 'slapped it together for fun' project.
1. How much flex are you feeling with that much extension coming off the top of the innicycle headset? None that I have noticed, and I do a bit of trail riding with it. I am glad I found this product because I was set on the dirt drops. They seem to need a bit of a rise, especially with an older geometry. I wanted a sealed headset and was looking into a clean solution. I didn't think the VO cigne stem would look good on the quill adapter/riser.
VO setup guide

2. Did you happen to take any caliper measurements of your fork's crown diameter? No but I should have. I ended up filing the fork a little and filing a bit more of a chamfer on the race so it would start evenly. I used a long piece of all thread with a large nut and washer and a long piece of pvc over the steer tube to press it on. Could it possibly have been JIS spec? I am not sure since I didn't measure. But I did make sure not to file away too much to where the old original race felt loose.

3. What inspired this build? Most of my bikes have been somewhat budget friendly and older. I have never had a mountain bike before. I had an old trek 1200 which was great for getting around SF as my commuter and a 2300. As the 1200 turned more into my baby hauler it was no longer sturdy enough and the geometry was horrible. Also, I wanted to be able to take off the baby seat and ride some trails. I had to look for a bit to find a budget friendly 700c bike big enough for me, that would also clear a decent tire. I wanted a basic chromoly rigid setup, so I figured might as well have the 700c to roll over things if I was going to have a bit of fun with it. It was also going to replace my road/commuter bikes for now.

I originally had my old white ind/ velocity a23 wheels with 35c tires on it and the bike felt a lot quicker, but I kept bending the rims and had a tough time in loose gravel/sand. With the wtb dual duty wheels and 50c its smooth and strong even with my son and gear. A little but more sluggish but worth it. It's still decent to ride on road since its a gravel tire and not full on mtb tire, and the drop position and 700c don't hurt either. It's my do it all bike other than bmx. Next up is a nicer front rack and pannier setup for the baby gear while out riding.

The 2300 was a frame and fork in the trash can, the 1200 was $80 for the frame and fork, and the diamondback was $60 for the frame and fork. The 1200 has been my regular ride for about 10 years so I get my money out of them







Last edited by kkleine; 10-11-20 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 10-16-20, 05:06 AM
  #214  
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Got mentioned in GCN Tech Show
about 10:45 in...
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Old 10-16-20, 10:34 AM
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No stock on Amazonó any plans for more?
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Old 10-20-20, 07:03 PM
  #216  
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Originally Posted by AlanKHG
No stock on Amazonó any plans for more?
Lots of plans! Life in general seems to be doing all it can to interfere, though. I do have stock ready to ship directly.
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Old 10-21-20, 04:15 PM
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Just finished up my innicycle install. I think it came out pretty clean. Thanks to Joe for being super responsive during the process. Also looks like the headset is getting a little media attention https://bikepacking.com/news/innicyc...rsion-headset/


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Old 10-22-20, 02:16 PM
  #218  
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VOLS That's looking really good! I read on another thread that this was just part 1. What else do you have planned?

Elsewhere on the internet, I see that a little media attention has riled up all the retro grouches and cheapskates
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Old 10-23-20, 12:13 AM
  #219  
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Yea, that paceline thread was interesting..

That forum has changed a lot since it stopped being the Serotta forum
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Old 10-23-20, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by joejack951
Elsewhere on the internet, I see that a little media attention has riled up all the retro grouches and cheapskates
I can't believe no one told me.
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Old 10-23-20, 06:30 PM
  #221  
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes
I can't believe no one told me.
Maybe their invite got lost in the mail? That new-fangled internet is so expensive!
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Old 10-26-20, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by joejack951
VOLS That's looking really good! I read on another thread that this was just part 1. What else do you have planned?

Elsewhere on the internet, I see that a little media attention has riled up all the retro grouches and cheapskates
Planning on turning it into my training bike by updating to 11 speed and getting some nice lightish wheels on there. Hope to get it all done before it gets too cold down south.
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Old 10-26-20, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by VOLS
Planning on turning it into my training bike by updating to 11 speed and getting some nice lightish wheels on there. Hope to get it all done before it gets too cold down south.
It gets cold in Hot-lanta?

Please do update when the new group and wheels are installed.
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Old 12-13-20, 01:58 PM
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Mystery solved on "loose" stem/steerer with an Innicycle.

Background: My 3rd or 4th Innicycle adapter, installed on an '88 Ironman, had an issue: No matter how tight the stem was tightened, it still seemed to move on the steerer. @joejack951 and I discussed it, and I tried 3 or 4 stems, all which pivoted on the steerer. JoeJack really wanted to inspect the stems and the Innicycle adapter, but I did not really want to go down that rabbit hole.

In what I thought was "the end," I bought a serious stem, Easton EC90. No way should that have been able to slip. It did. Dammit.

I went back into the instructions, both written and in various posts re: the Innicycle. it came down to "pre-load."

In the instructions, during installation you use a stem sort of as a "handle" to tighten down the headset pre-load, then you remove the stem, add spacers as needed, and then bolt the stem into place and use it like any other.

Because I'd never read the instruction, I was using a channel-locks to tighten down the pre-load. (JoeJack heartily disapproved of that). Well, the channel-locks simply don't have the grip and the torque capability to get the pre-load strong enough. When I added spacers and bolted on the stem, it wasn't slipping on the steerer; the steerer itself was moving because the pre-load was not enough to lock it in place. It was moving, not the stem.

the light bulb moment: I was riding the Ironman on the rollers this morning. Not a time to have a loose pre-load imitating a loose stem. I was disgusted, so I stopped Zwift and pulled the bike into another room, pulled the bars, pulled the stem, re-installed the stem and tightened that damn pre-load into place. Then I re-installed the spacers (all Innicycle-great spacers) and the stem, and the bars and the Garmin mount, and got back on the rollers and did 2 x 1-hour sessions, on the rollers.

So now I have 4 different stems, all of which were thought to be too big or had some defect. One stem was destroyed by over-tightening (stripped out the threads).

And sore legs.

The Innicycle remains, in my opinion, the best bike frame component to be developed in the last 15 years. Sure, replaceable dropouts are great, but the Innicycle works on old bikes, can breath new life into obsolete frames, and puts the flexibility and variability of modern stems to older bike fit. It would have saved 1" threaded forks, singlehandedly, just a few years earlier.
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Old 12-14-20, 09:18 AM
  #225  
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes
Mystery solved on "loose" stem/steerer with an Innicycle.

snip...
The Innicycle remains, in my opinion, the best bike frame component to be developed in the last 15 years. Sure, replaceable dropouts are great, but the Innicycle works on old bikes, can breath new life into obsolete frames, and puts the flexibility and variability of modern stems to older bike fit. It would have saved 1" threaded forks, singlehandedly, just a few years earlier.
Yes. Especially for modernizing classic frames.

Question/observation: how do you get the Innicycle spacers on? The rubber o-ring inside makes it prohibitively difficult to the point where I use regular spacers. What benefit do the o-rungs provide other than holding the spacer in place?
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