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PX10 find!

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Old 05-11-18, 09:07 PM
  #1  
AdventureManCO
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PX10 find!

I need another project like I need a hole in the head, but I had heard so many great things about the PX10 that when this 'old Peugeot' popped up on C/L (literally, first time I looked for bikes in probably a week and the ad was about 3-4 hrs old), I had to call.

Took a couple of days to make the connection, but the seller was very cool and the deal was struck today. $70.














I brought it home, threw some air in the tires (they held!), and adjusted the seat. Completely not my frame size (I'm about 5' 11"), but I got on it, rode it around, and it actually felt really good! I'm going to give it a shot! She's been battered and bruised, left alone in a corner and neglected for a long time. Right now I'm trying to take inventory of parts and damage, finding out what is original or non original to the bike and how to proceed with the damage I'm finding. Someone put a kickstand on her and really wrenched it down, and there are a few nicks and dings near the BB. I'm going to try to gently fix the damage. More on that later. I have a few questions -

Do these look like the original wheels? They are high flange, and the rims are steel. They are heavy!

Brakes look like replacements, and the crank arms don't match (one is 'Stronglight', the other is 'Peugeot'). What about handlebars? Shifters? Just about everything is marked 'Simplex'.

Has the typical cracked Simplex FD. Not sure about the rear. I've got a nice set of Suntour Cyclone IIs that I will be throwing on that will be a HUGE improvement.

Not sure yet what I am going to do with it! For sure an complete teardown and rebuild. I'd like to repair the damage from the kickstand. Do I keep it original? Tastefully upgraded? Newer wheelset? Larger rear hub spacing / cold setting frame? Let me hear your thoughts!

This thing is ready for a 2018 clunker challenge.
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Old 05-11-18, 10:14 PM
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Hiya uncommon in blue . Nice nervex lugs ! Wheels not original . Drive side crank right other wrong. Brake calipers look original (mafac?) Brake levers not right .
Is that one of the dodgy french stems that crack ..
For sure someone else will chime in .
HAve fun with rebuild . If it was me i would keep to original where possible/practical/economical
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Old 05-11-18, 10:16 PM
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-----

Congratulations on your excellent find!

Looks like a 1970 model PX-10E to me. Purchased a white one new in 1970.

As to your questions -

brake calipers original

brake levers chnaged to Weinmann from the MAFAC originals

original wheels would have been Normandy Luxe Competition large flange QR hubs with MAVIC Montlery tubular rims and Robergel Trois Etoiles DB stainless spokes

original tyres Hutchinson tubulars

present hubs look as though they may be ACS brand

left crank arm probably from a Stronglight model 104 chainset which launched about seven years later than cycle

shift levers are original. recommend you chnage then as they have a desiign flaw which caused them to remain in production for only a short time. they are made of folded over sheet and the ball end of the gear cable pushes the two halves apart when the lever is operated.

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...104&AbsPos=225

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Old 05-11-18, 10:24 PM
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My '75 work in progress, mostly original;
Looks to be a '69 PX-10 from the decals and the serial no.
This is a crazy deal at $70 as I would pay more than double that for the frame alone. Most of the components are not original, however, the wheelset might have been swapped out by the original owner from the Normandy Tubular set to those heavy steel clinchers. I think if you intend to ride it, usability is far more important than originality as I think only few would appreciate a fully original PX-10, but most would appreciate a well-working bike.
Suntour or Campy components would be appropriate, however the RD hanger may have to be tapped with a 10mm drill in order to fit most RDs. If you don't want to do that, however, the metal Simplex derailers work well but ask for a higher price. I would suggest the tapping route as most would not care at all about a tiny modification that would improve shifting drastically. The brake calipers look to be original but the levers need to be changed. I suggest changing them to some Tektro Aero levers, as you will see a dramatic difference in comfort and handling.
The wheel set needs to be fully replaced. I have a pair of the original wheels for my PX-10 that deserve a good owner. That is, if you want to deal with tubulars. I don't. I think the best route for usability is to build a set of 700C alloy clinchers for the Pug. I may have a set available if you don't want the hassle of building your own set.
That's a beauty of a bike, and whatever you do with it, please keep me updated!

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Old 05-11-18, 10:30 PM
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Nice score if you're tall enough to ride it. These bikes were the result of years of experience at making bicycles- others just copied and mass produced, There is a difference.
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Old 05-12-18, 04:34 AM
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The only thing I noticed, other than what's already been identified, is that the front brake cable hanger is incorrect, looks like one from a Raleigh. As for keeping it original, it's a pricey proposition. OEM front derailleur, brake levers with hoods, crank arm, toptube cable clips, cable hanger, and wheelset with correct skewers could run $300, besides the already-needed tires, tubes, cables, chain, etc, so you could easily be into this $70 bike for $470 give-or-take. If it's not the correct frame size for you, do you really want to put $500 into it?

I'd definitely NOT tap the rear dropout for a different derailleur if I was unsure that I'd keep it. Just makes it a bit harder to sell a modified frame.
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Old 05-12-18, 04:57 AM
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@AdventureManCO - Great find! What size is the frame?
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Old 05-12-18, 05:21 AM
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You did great! Seventy bucks for an X10 in close to original condition. I love my X10 even though I have not taken it out for a spin this spring (can't find my tubular ice and snow and darn cold tubular tires) as the roads are a mess, and the air is cold and my water pipes froze yesterday morning. Canada, eh? But I do love it here, by the lake, now half frozen, anyway...

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Old 05-12-18, 06:05 AM
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Congrats

I saw that when it came up on CL. Great price, but I don’t have time for projects right now and I already had my fun restoring a PX-10.

Glad to see it went to someone who can appreciate it.
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Old 05-12-18, 07:03 AM
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Nice Clunker. Graphics look like my '69 except my head badge, if I recall, was riveted or screwed on. Interesting component swaps. If the pictured saddle/seat post is adjusted for you, clean it up, fix a few things and ride it some. I love mine. Original derailleurs and shifters work fine so I'd leave the hanger alone. Mine was found without wheels so I took a Shimano 600 hub, removed a spacer and 4mm of axle to use for an alloy wheelset. (I think I've seen a picture of Eddie on a Peugeot with small flange hubs.) I tapped my cranks for 9/16, got a 42 small ring from a forum member, and just this week I sanded down a stem to fit so I could put some 42mm bars on it. Right now it has some worn-smooth 32mm cyclocross tires with room to spare. I'm curious what your top tube center to center measures. I'm not 5' 10' and my Simplex seat post is beyond the limit with a 120mm stem to dial in my 23 inch frame.
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Old 05-12-18, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by AdventureManCO View Post
the crank arms don't match (one is 'Stronglight', the other is 'Peugeot'). […] Do I keep it original?
AFAIK, the "Peugeot" branded cranks didn't appear until the 1980s, making them more recent than the frame and drive-side crank. You may also find that the non-drive side arm will use a 22mm extractor, while the Stronlight-branded drive side arm will need the proprietary 23.35mm Stronglight extractor. It also appears that the original 16mm Stronglight mounting bolts have been replaced with 14mm Sugino bolts, at least on the drive side.

It's not original now, so unless you're willing to put in the time and effort to restore it to original, there's no compelling reason not to change whatever you need to make it useful to you.
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Old 05-12-18, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by 1simplexnut View Post
Hiya uncommon in blue . Nice nervex lugs ! Wheels not original . Drive side crank right other wrong. Brake calipers look original (mafac?) Brake levers not right .
Is that one of the dodgy french stems that crack ..
For sure someone else will chime in .
HAve fun with rebuild . If it was me i would keep to original where possible/practical/economical

The AVA death stem! Yes! It is. I pulled it out and it looked great. I don't know whether people just throw them out or collect them. I assume either could happen. Because of the top tube length (longer than I need), I'd probably need to get something a bit shorter in the stem deptarment, as the AVA is 110mm.

Thank you for your kind words! The bike has a crude beauty to it in its neglected state.
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Old 05-12-18, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

Congratulations on your excellent find!

Looks like a 1970 model PX-10E to me. Purchased a white one new in 1970.

As to your questions -

brake calipers original

brake levers chnaged to Weinmann from the MAFAC originals

original wheels would have been Normandy Luxe Competition large flange QR hubs with MAVIC Montlery tubular rims and Robergel Trois Etoiles DB stainless spokes

original tyres Hutchinson tubulars

present hubs look as though they may be ACS brand

left crank arm probably from a Stronglight model 104 chainset which launched about seven years later than cycle

shift levers are original. recommend you chnage then as they have a desiign flaw which caused them to remain in production for only a short time. they are made of folded over sheet and the ball end of the gear cable pushes the two halves apart when the lever is operated.

VeloBase.com - Component: Simplex (large plastic finger pads with cross-hatching)

-----
Juvela,

Thank you so much for your information (also same to 1simplexnut for the info). Your breadth of knowledge on here commands respect! Good to know the wheelset isn't original. I'd have been scratching my head to see such a steel rimmed set of bricks attached to such a nicely spec'd frame. Thanks for the heads up on the shifters. I'll probably be changing out a lot on this bike.
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Old 05-12-18, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ballinwang View Post
My '75 work in progress, mostly original;
Looks to be a '69 PX-10 from the decals and the serial no.
This is a crazy deal at $70 as I would pay more than double that for the frame alone. Most of the components are not original, however, the wheelset might have been swapped out by the original owner from the Normandy Tubular set to those heavy steel clinchers. I think if you intend to ride it, usability is far more important than originality as I think only few would appreciate a fully original PX-10, but most would appreciate a well-working bike.
Suntour or Campy components would be appropriate, however the RD hanger may have to be tapped with a 10mm drill in order to fit most RDs. If you don't want to do that, however, the metal Simplex derailers work well but ask for a higher price. I would suggest the tapping route as most would not care at all about a tiny modification that would improve shifting drastically. The brake calipers look to be original but the levers need to be changed. I suggest changing them to some Tektro Aero levers, as you will see a dramatic difference in comfort and handling.
The wheel set needs to be fully replaced. I have a pair of the original wheels for my PX-10 that deserve a good owner. That is, if you want to deal with tubulars. I don't. I think the best route for usability is to build a set of 700C alloy clinchers for the Pug. I may have a set available if you don't want the hassle of building your own set.
That's a beauty of a bike, and whatever you do with it, please keep me updated!

That is a BEAUTIFUL bike you have! Holy cow! Also, thank you for your offer on the wheelset. I've got a spare 700c wheelset I picked up on shopgoodwill.com and will probably coldset the frame to accept larger rear hub.
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Old 05-12-18, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Shp4man View Post
Nice score if you're tall enough to ride it. These bikes were the result of years of experience at making bicycles- others just copied and mass produced, There is a difference.
Just barely! I can stand over the frame with both feet completely flat on the ground, but the top tube starts to come up against...well, nevermind. When trying to lift the bike up, I can't get the front wheel off the ground when straddling it in that position. But I'm not letting that stop me!
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Old 05-12-18, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jj1091 View Post
The only thing I noticed, other than what's already been identified, is that the front brake cable hanger is incorrect, looks like one from a Raleigh. As for keeping it original, it's a pricey proposition. OEM front derailleur, brake levers with hoods, crank arm, toptube cable clips, cable hanger, and wheelset with correct skewers could run $300, besides the already-needed tires, tubes, cables, chain, etc, so you could easily be into this $70 bike for $470 give-or-take. If it's not the correct frame size for you, do you really want to put $500 into it?

I'd definitely NOT tap the rear dropout for a different derailleur if I was unsure that I'd keep it. Just makes it a bit harder to sell a modified frame.
It's this level of knowledge that keeps amazing me about this place. Thank you.

You know, I think you are right. To get this thing back to an original state, would be a lot of time + money.

Regarding the tapping of the derailleur hanger, it sort of goes along with your original comment about originality. To be honest, this thing is a mutt. Check out what was underneath the kickstand -



That is the good side - just wait till I show some pictures of the underneath of the bike

I think that alone pretty much destroyed the originality / value of the frame. Anyone that will care about the original hangar threads is probably going to care way more about the damage. But I plan to fix it. It should be ridiculous, frustrating, somewhat pointless and probably only I will care. But sometimes that's just how I like it
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Old 05-12-18, 09:36 AM
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I have no idea - but I measured the top tube yesterday, and it comes up as 23.5". I'm usually around a 22" TT. So...maybe a 1.5" shorter stem? Is that how this all works?
Haha, I have no idea!
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Old 05-12-18, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by randyjawa View Post
You did great! Seventy bucks for an X10 in close to original condition. I love my X10 even though I have not taken it out for a spin this spring (can't find my tubular ice and snow and darn cold tubular tires) as the roads are a mess, and the air is cold and my water pipes froze yesterday morning. Canada, eh? But I do love it here, by the lake, now half frozen, anyway...

Gorgeous bike! I'm hoping the paint on this one shines up a bit and looks half as good as yours!
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Old 05-12-18, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by CO_Hoya View Post
I saw that when it came up on CL. Great price, but I don’t have time for projects right now and I already had my fun restoring a PX-10.

Glad to see it went to someone who can appreciate it.
Thank you, in a sense, for giving me the chance to have a crack at it! It will certainly be appreciated! I've never really ridden a french bike, but I'm looking forward to the experience!
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Old 05-12-18, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
Nice Clunker. Graphics look like my '69 except my head badge, if I recall, was riveted or screwed on. Interesting component swaps. If the pictured saddle/seat post is adjusted for you, clean it up, fix a few things and ride it some. I love mine. Original derailleurs and shifters work fine so I'd leave the hanger alone. Mine was found without wheels so I took a Shimano 600 hub, removed a spacer and 4mm of axle to use for an alloy wheelset. (I think I've seen a picture of Eddie on a Peugeot with small flange hubs.) I tapped my cranks for 9/16, got a 42 small ring from a forum member, and just this week I sanded down a stem to fit so I could put some 42mm bars on it. Right now it has some worn-smooth 32mm cyclocross tires with room to spare. I'm curious what your top tube center to center measures. I'm not 5' 10' and my Simplex seat post is beyond the limit with a 120mm stem to dial in my 23 inch frame.
Right now, at my correct size, it has about 2" of seatpost showing. The main issue is the top tube being about 1.5" longer than I'm used to. Right now, I'm hoping that a stem swap will fix that. Eventually, maybe I'll find someone with a smaller PX10 frame to trade with, but it will need just as much grunge and crushed stays as this one to make the swap fair
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Old 05-12-18, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
AFAIK, the "Peugeot" branded cranks didn't appear until the 1980s, making them more recent than the frame and drive-side crank. You may also find that the non-drive side arm will use a 22mm extractor, while the Stronlight-branded drive side arm will need the proprietary 23.35mm Stronglight extractor. It also appears that the original 16mm Stronglight mounting bolts have been replaced with 14mm Sugino bolts, at least on the drive side.

It's not original now, so unless you're willing to put in the time and effort to restore it to original, there's no compelling reason not to change whatever you need to make it useful to you.
You bring up a really good point, as others have mentioned, about it being non-original. I think your right - no sense in chasing originality when the framed been mucked with a bit. If it was completely pristine, I'd probably entertain the notion a bit more, but as it stands, it is a mutt through and though.

I'll try and post up some pictures of the frame damage! Ya'll, get ready for some carnage!
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Old 05-12-18, 10:13 AM
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Nice find for sure. The blue color is less common. My size too, but I already have one...

If you find one of these that doesn't still have all or most of the original parts, it's typically not economically viable to make it perfectly original again. My PX10 started from a partial bike, and I considered it. But going by typical ebay selling prices it would have cost me at least $1500, IIRC, possibly more.

The wheels are not original. It would have had sew ups with Normandy Competition hubs and Simplex QR skewers. Robergel spokes.

Replace those for sure. The bike is/was spaced for 5 speed /120. It's a 10 speed. Sometimes wheels can be found on ebay, or you can build them up. Hard to find 120 stuff these days. SunXCD makes cassette hubs in that size. Cool, but costly. Cheapest thing would be to respace the rear triangle and get some more modern wheels. You'll need internal cam skewers.

Brake levers are not original but they were the period (more or less) replacement for people that didn't like the very long reach Mafac levers.

Left/NDS cranks tend to come off when they aren't installed with enough torque. That's why you typically see the left crankarm replaced.

Derailleurs: if you modify the dropout hanger to accept 'normal' derailleurs, it needs to have a B stop ground or filed into it as well as being tapped. This was a routine task back in the 70s and 80s. It's slightly funny to me that people are all squeamish about this mod, and yet don't have a problem building up PX10s with totally non period parts. At any rate most likely the rear derailleur still works fine, if you clean and lube it. They will only work properly with racing gearing though, so if you need more than about a 14-24, you'll need to (A) mod the dropout, (B) use an ear, or (C) purchase an expensive vintage long arm Simplex RD. Shifting is 90% in the freewheel and chain and setup, btw. Simplex RD work perfectly well if used as intended.
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Old 05-12-18, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by AdventureManCO View Post
Juvela,

Thank you so much for your information (also same to 1simplexnut for the info). Your breadth of knowledge on here commands respect! Good to know the wheelset isn't original. I'd have been scratching my head to see such a steel rimmed set of bricks attached to such a nicely spec'd frame. Thanks for the heads up on the shifters. I'll probably be changing out a lot on this bike.
-----

good to read information of help.

forgot to mention -

chain has been replaced; original would have been SEDIS

pedals are original, Lyotard model 45CA:

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...109&AbsPos=143

MIA are cycle's Christophe toe clips model 50S (496) and straps -

http://www.velo-pages.com/main.php?g...serialNumber=2

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...103&AbsPos=215

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...103&AbsPos=203

original front brake hanger would have been MAFAC part nr. 65 -

http://www.velo-pages.com/main.php?g...serialNumber=2

left side crank fixing bolt has been replace with SUGINO 15mm; original would have been Stronglight 16mm.

WRT chainstay damage - the part on the top does not look too bad. you may wish to contact our @gugie regarding possible reinflaton - or as it has bee termed on this forum gugieficazione.

---

BTW - what is your twenty? the CO in your handle might indicate Colorado yet cycle wears a transfer hailing from Nuovo Joysey.

[apologies for all the links. our marvelous new software does not permit me to post images either via URL or from me device. have tried on MAC & PC with two different browsers all to naught.]

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Old 05-12-18, 01:00 PM
  #24  
AdventureManCO
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
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good to read information of help.

forgot to mention -

chain has been replaced; original would have been SEDIS

pedals are original, Lyotard model 45CA:

VeloBase.com - Component: Lyotard 45CA

MIA are cycle's Christophe toe clips model 50S (496) and straps -

http://www.velo-pages.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=5917&g2_serialNumber=2

VeloBase.com - Component: Christophe 496 toe clips

VeloBase.com - Component: Christophe leather toe straps

original front brake hanger would have been MAFAC part nr. 65 -

http://www.velo-pages.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=44640&g2_serialNumber=2

left side crank fixing bolt has been replace with SUGINO 15mm; original would have been Stronglight 16mm.

WRT chainstay damage - the part on the top does not look too bad. you may wish to contact our @gugie regarding possible reinflaton - or as it has bee termed on this forum gugieficazione.

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BTW - what is your twenty? the CO in your handle might indicate Colorado yet cycle wears a transfer hailing from Nuovo Joysey.

[apologies for all the links. our marvelous new software does not permit me to post images either via URL or from me device. have tried on MAC & PC with two different browsers all to naught.]

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The gentleman I purchased from said it came from NY. So it was over on the east coast mulling about for a while. I am in Colorado.

I'll throw up some pictures of the damage - the bottom is worse

'Reinflation' - sounds interesting. If there is already a technique to getting this area 'non-squished', then I would love to study it and read up on it before attempting anything. The old girl just looks and me longingly and its begging to be made right. I'm guessing there is still a lot of good paint under all the grime, so the kickstand damage might turn out to be less appropriate once everything else is ship shape.

Any thoughts on using a short stem to make use of the longer top tube? I don't know how it may affect handling, but I've got correct seating height with room to spare, so the top tube is the only question about bike fit at this point. Even then, the long tube didn't seem to bother me too much when I rode it, which was a bit surprising actually!
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Old 05-12-18, 01:17 PM
  #25  
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I would not worry about it being original, period correct would seem the way to go in this instance. I have 3 PX-10s and one is completely original and the other 2 have slight mods to them. The Delrin parts were cracked (the most unreliable parts on the Peugeots) and I did not want to replace them with 30-year-old take-off's so I use Campagnolo instead. I did, however, source the rear derailleur made by simplex that is made entirely out of metal in order to keep from tapping the rear drop.
I have seen Px's with Campagnolo and if they are nice and clean aka riders there does not seem to be a tremendous loss in value...I would place yours in that category....in my mind unless original paint and no dents not worth the expense to totally restore, you will find a better original one for the cost of restoring your...and a restored bike is worth less to me than an original.
Clean it service what needs to be done ride and enjoy it and keep an eye out for one that is "original"
JM2C's, Ben
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