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Any Clydes around here?

Old 06-03-18, 06:53 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
Andy, I've found the Berto numbers avoid the extra harshness resulting from too-narrow tires pumped up too-high pressures, and the soft, sluggish feel of under-inflated tires that mean your innertubes are at risk of pinch-flatting. Those extremes always bounded by pressure preferences dating back to the 1970s. I can't say if they result in low rolling resistance as Jan Heine claims, but I have no complaints. It feels a lot like it did when I used my sense of a sweet-spot with my tubulars. Note: I understand pinch-flatting is real, but I haven't had any since starting to follow Berto, and becoming a lot more careful about how I install innertubes.

I wouldn't say the Berto method is scientific, I don't believe it was based on fundamental scientific principles that would establish that 15% drop is the best absolute criterion. Frank said in his writings of the time that 15% drop seemed to work for him, so he derived an equation to predict what pressures would result in 15% for various tire sizes, and plotted the results in the famous graph. Rather than being scientific, I see it as a consistent guideline that has no bad effects. He was trying to say in Bicycling, "hey guys, try this, I think it works pretty well!" Kudos to Heine and others for resurrecting it, but it's still just a practical guideline rather than a scientific theory.
I appreciate the thoughtful response. I was being low key flippant about my method not being scientific. I actually have two reasons why I use the method I currently use. I am too lazy to check my tires more than every other week or so and the pump I have right now is very inaccurate. I use it to get me in the ballpark, but it is far enough off that using my method is actually more accurate, LOL. I keep meaning to buy a new one but I keep spending my limited bike money on other stuff.
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Old 06-03-18, 07:06 AM
  #27  
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Yeah, well, I'm a bit of a Clydesdale too...

6'0" and 212 lbs. Been trying to shed that 12 pounds for months and months. Closest I got to an even 200 lbs was when I got myself down to 206 and that was it. No matter what I did, no matter how little I ate, etc... I was "stuck" at a plateau or something.
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Old 06-03-18, 07:10 AM
  #28  
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Hmm? I have been doing it all wrong. Mid 200's, 25mm tires. Luck must be on my side. I have just under 5000 miles on my gatorskns��
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Old 06-03-18, 07:10 AM
  #29  
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Well! I'm lately flirting with clydism, at 195 ish. I never pump my 25mm tires, on 36 spoke wheels, above 100. Usually around 85 rear/80 front. After that I use the squeeze test before every ride. When I see the rear flaring more than I like, I stop and pump a few strokes into it, and then use the floor pump before the next ride. I'm a big fan of Occam's razor.
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Old 06-03-18, 07:30 AM
  #30  
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Always been a Clyde. Currently up to about 235 since I can't ride more than 25 kms without knee swelling into grapefruit.

Never have any qualms about road bikes with 23 or 25 mm's. Never less than 110 psi.

28's were my choice for loaded touring on my C-dale T-1000. Wide tires just weren't that good in the early 90's, even Conti's Top Touring.
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Old 06-03-18, 07:45 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by JGM411 View Post
Hmm? I have been doing it all wrong. Mid 200's, 25mm tires. Luck must be on my side. I have just under 5000 miles on my gatorskns��
I think I'm also going to continue doing it all wrong, at least on this bike!
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Old 06-03-18, 07:47 AM
  #32  
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Any Clydes around here?

Not recently, but I do have some Puma touring shoes.

(For old Knicks fans)
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Old 06-03-18, 07:49 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Lascauxcaveman View Post

Lascauxcaveman (with beer, naturally) sitting next to Dave
.
Dave wore a cycling jersey to a ball game.

No more need be said. You obviously choose your friends well.
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Old 06-03-18, 07:56 AM
  #34  
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I am hovering around 212 and I run my 25s 90 front 100 rear. I rode at 110 to 130 for years. After dropping I have not slowed any or pinch flatted. I do build my own wheels so I probably tend to ride lighter in the saddle than the average rider.
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Old 06-03-18, 08:33 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by palincss View Post
One reason might be that that's the widest tire that will fit on that frame.
Well, there is that.
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Old 06-03-18, 08:33 AM
  #36  
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Thanks all, for a fun and informative discussion!
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Old 06-03-18, 09:06 AM
  #37  
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6' 1"/205

Chicago/Illinois roads, 700x23 @100 psi work great.
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Old 06-03-18, 09:36 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by ryansu View Post
Looking good @Slightspeed !! any secrets to your 40lb drop?
I joined a Nutritional Balance class at Kaiser Hospital. 2000 calories, and balancing carbs, protein and fat using myfittnesspal.com app. I'm 69 and try to ride 100 miles a week. It took 3 × 16 week sessions of lecture, weigh in and group discussions, to get to my 200 lb. goal. I've tried other methods before, but this one seems to be working long term.
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Old 06-03-18, 10:23 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
By "hoop stress" you mean the tension in the tire casing, which tends to separate the beads? Sounds like the rim is better able to support stress on the bead hook in the radial direction than stress in the direction perpendicular to that. So in terms of rim durability I might be better off with the 25 mm tires than 28's, even if 28's could fit the frame.

Related issue of course is tire carcass stress - I think the tires, old Continental Ultra 3000, have the strength needed. The friend I bought them from used them on his tandem for a while.
Other people (like FBinNY) could explain it better than me, but hoop stress is dependent on the tire width and pressure, so a 50mm tire at 50 psi is exerting the same force on the rim sidewalls as a 25mm tire at 100psi. Since you would need less pressure with 28mm tires anyway, I wouldn't let that scare you off. You're likely to be just fine with whatever you do, until the rim is worn thin.
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Old 06-03-18, 10:51 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Slightspeed View Post
I joined a Nutritional Balance class at Kaiser Hospital. 2000 calories, and balancing carbs, protein and fat using myfittnesspal.com app. I'm 69 and try to ride 100 miles a week. It took 3 × 16 week sessions of lecture, weigh in and group discussions, to get to my 200 lb. goal. I've tried other methods before, but this one seems to be working long term.
Thanks for the tips, I have downloaded that app, its tough to lose weight at any age but especially past 50 so Chapeau!
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Old 06-03-18, 10:55 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
Dave wore a cycling jersey to a ball game.
No more need be said. You obviously choose your friends well.
That is @Dfrost, whom you all know quite well from these forums. The baseball game was just the filling in a bike-beer-baseball sandwich. So he was in proper cycling kit. Best way to get to and from the stadium is, of course, via velo.
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Old 06-03-18, 10:55 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
LOL!

I actually have a few in the works along those lines. One is a 1952 Rudge Aero Special (think Raleigh Super Lenton) with original or at least contemporary 27x1 ¼ rims, and another is a slightly modernized 1971-ish Peugeot UO-8 that will be shod with aluminum 27x1 ¼ aluminum rims. I'm on the verge of 65 and it's 1971 all over again! Keeping the Sturmey-Archer AW hub on the Rudge.

The Peug is destined to be an Ann Arbor city bike, which for me means vintage drop bars an inch above the saddle.
Kudos on keeping those old steel bikes alive and making them useful! Any pictures? I highly recommend going 27 x 1 3/8 if they fit either Kenda K40s ((35-630 ISO), or Sand Canyons by Swift, Once you go Phat you won't want to go back...
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Old 06-03-18, 11:44 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Other people (like FBinNY) could explain it better than me, but hoop stress is dependent on the tire width and pressure, so a 50mm tire at 50 psi is exerting the same force on the rim sidewalls as a 25mm tire at 100psi. Since you would need less pressure with 28mm tires anyway, I wouldn't let that scare you off. You're likely to be just fine with whatever you do, until the rim is worn thin.
Well, I'm not scared off of anything. What I see from this thread is that there is no expected hazardous condition due to what I'm doing that I won't detect based on my inspection and maintenance.

My other question, "What is hoop stress?" is also answered, so thanks. Based on your explanation it's illustrated by the vector diagram Figure 526 page 499 in "Bicycles and Tricycles," by Archibald Sharp (MIT Press 1989), originally published 1896. I suspect the same mathematical model is needed to engineer barrel hoops, which could be where the term "hoop stress" comes from.
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Old 06-03-18, 11:52 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
Dave wore a cycling jersey to a ball game.

No more need be said. You obviously choose your friends well.
Nice stadium ya got there Going to two games, probably via bike, next month and plan to equip myself with a Hop based beverage like @Lascauxcaveman
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Old 06-03-18, 02:39 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
I just weighed myself, and discovered I have just turned clyde - 200#. Aside from general health (the obvious, plus I have knees that now ache after 20 minutes of warrior poses, I've just cut back my diet a bit and pulled it back down toe 190, in the past.

But today I was checking my tire pressures for a bike that has actual 700 x 25c tires on Mavic Open Pro rims, 32 spokes f/r. The Berto chart recommends pressures 101 psi front and 124 psi rear. I would not normally have thought this was a big problem, but I also just read the fine print sticker that Mavic pasted on the rim, and it says max pressure is 118 psi.

I guess I have too much information now, because I'm a little worried about stressing the rim. I realize these are lawyer stickers, but being an engineer I just wonder if it might be a real threshold. Previously I used pressures calculated based on 28 mm tires, which are what my tires are nominally.

Anybody been living on this edge? Am I near the edge of a cliff?

Has anybody seen Mavic rims fail due to stress of overpressure?
6'3" 260lbs here. Conti 4000 25s are on all my regular rotation rides, and likely will remain so as I bought a bunch of 'em when prices were lowish so I now have close to a lifetime supply. Open Pro rims. I pump the tires up to 120psi front and back. If it has been more than a week since I pumped up the tires, back up to 120 they go. I have had no rim problems that I can attribute to tires issues.

So my answers to your questions are, in order, yes, no and no.
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Old 06-03-18, 03:08 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by davester View Post
I don't understand why anybody over about 170 lbs in this day and age rides with 25 mm tires. I'm not a clyde, but 28 mm is the narrowest I would go.
I'm probably 80 or 90lbs heavier than that at 6' 3" and ~260lbs, and one of my absolute favourite bikes - a ca. 2005 Bill Holland ti roadie - won't fit most 28s. Even a 25mm Conti GP4000 is too tall to clear the RR brake. I run 25mm Veloflex Masters. It's a wonderful ride. Ti bike plus supple 25mm tires on a go-fast road machine that mostly stays on pavement - it's frankly a smoother ride than many other bikes I've owned/ridden would be with 28s, so I''m not missing much. My 1990 Marinoni Special can be harsh on really bad pavement, between the 25mm Gatorskins (not the most supple tire) and beefy SP tube set, but it's great for shorter rides. I'd consider putting 28s on either if I could, and enjoy road riding with everything from a 25mm or so up to 42 or 47mm wide in 650b, but I roll my eyes at the suggestion that anything narrower than 28mm is intolerable, or even particularly undesirable.

To be fair, I would certainly concur with the insistence on wider tires if I was limited to one bike.

To speak to the general topic here, I'm definitely an example of a 'Clyde' ('super-Clyde'?) here on the Forum.
I haven't been under 200lbs since I grew out of being a teenage beanpole and filled out my frame over 15 years ago.
I wouldn't worry excessively about matching the Berto charts, or about a few lbs of pressure outside nominal spec on a tire/rim.
At my weight, I like the supple 25s on the above bike at around 120 in the back, 105 in front.
Works great. Rides fast. Well within spec. Doesn't match up with the Berto chart optimum, but whatevs.

I've played with higher pressures (up to ~140), and run a few different Mavic rims over the years, along with Velocity, H+Son, and others.
No issues so far.
I've seen a lot of wheels/rims working in shops, and not a lot reasons to fear rim failure due to overpressure assuming pressure is not ridiculous and rim integrity is not compromised by excessive wear or damage.

I avoid super-skinny tires (no 20s or 23s, generally), wheels without a full contingent of spokes (I ride 36º in back, period), ridiculously-thin tubing (I'd avoid Columbus KS and other such weight-weenie silliness), and old bonded aluminum/carbon frames, but mostly find that concerns raised around rider weight - within some limits, of course - are overblown. Aside from the aforementioned tendency to be hard on wheels, the main concern that I've encountered related to rider weight is excessive BB flex with some lightweight steel bikes I've owned/ridden (though this is not strictly a matter of the tube set used - e.g. I've experienced this as an issue with one 531c frame, an old Brad Proctor custom, but not at all with my 531c '84 Mercian Pro).

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Old 06-03-18, 06:21 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by davester View Post
I don't understand why anybody over about 170 lbs in this day and age rides with 25 mm tires. I'm not a clyde, but 28 mm is the narrowest I would go.
I weighed myself this afternoon for the first time in ages and I saw 205. I ride 23s and 19s. What's the big deal?

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Old 06-03-18, 09:43 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post
I weighed myself this afternoon for the first time in ages and I saw 205. I ride 23s and 19s. What's the big deal?

DD
Not a big deal, but those are going to be slower, less comfortable, and have less grip in the corners than wider tires. Given your weight, they'll need to be pumped up to rock hard pressures to avoid pinch flats. If your frame can accommodate larger tires it makes no sense to use such skinny ones IMHO.
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Old 06-03-18, 09:54 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by ryansu View Post
Kudos on keeping those old steel bikes alive and making them useful! Any pictures? I highly recommend going 27 x 1 3/8 if they fit either Kenda K40s ((35-630 ISO), or Sand Canyons by Swift, Once you go Phat you won't want to go back...
I have a bike with 42 mm Hetres, and I'm not automatically into bigger. For the Rudge, the frame is designed not for anything bigger than the 32 mm width. The Peug might be able to do more, but I'll have to see how a wider tire fits the rim. I have had 32 mm and 30 mm tires on 700c bikes, and I like those. Basides, I really don't need much tread for my riding. Paselas or Specialized

But for the Rudge at least, I want to start with how it was intended to ride. Very similar bikes carried fast riders to establish new records over courses like Lands' End to John O'Groats, across many years.

I don't only ride this Mondonico ELOS on 25 mm clinchers, I also ride a Masi Gran Criterium and a 1984 Mondonico on 22 mm tubulars. I'm not married to any particular "philosophy" of bicyclage tireage. For years I've read the back and forth here, on the Bob list and others. Rarely is there a good consideration of "Can the stress of a highly inflated and heavily loaded tire damage my rims?" The experience I see here says that the issues are not different from what I'm already aware of, and that others committing the same "violations" have not often had the problems I was worried about, including other tubular riders.
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Old 06-04-18, 02:09 AM
  #50  
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Does 330 lbs at 6ft-1" count?
I've always been more suited for football than bike riding, and the love of beer don't help much.
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