Does this look like a structural issue?
 

Hi,
I am thinking about purchasing this bike and the seller has been kind enough to send me some pics. I like the bike but in one of the photos I saw something and wanted some of your thoughts. No facilitators nearby so..
The seller seems very honest and I will ask him about this but would like to hear your thoughts. I will be checking on shipping and packing this AM.and will most likely ask the shop about it ...looks like rust on the bottom of the tube...no other paint issues on any of the other tubes.
Best, Ben
http://i66.tinypic.com/119y15c.png

I suspect that is the top tube' right behind the head tube and we might be seeing the tip of the top head lug on the tube? Those look like cracks on the paint. Could be evidence of frontal collision damage to the frame. The paint might have also cracked at the bottom of the top tube and fallen/ flaked off, thus the rust you might be seeing.
you might want to look at a good pic of the bike from the side to see if the fork and frame might be bent. Hopefully I'm wrong, but it is good to check before you purchase....

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The combination of fade paint scheme and scrolly chrome lugs makes me think we are looking a a Mondia Special.

The grey splotch at the bottom of the photo looks like something caused by a spill/splatter of a corrosive liquid.

From the photo it is guesswork to speculate on the line/scratch at the top of the image. It could be simply a scratch or a mark where something was erstwhile attached.

One would want more/better imagery or an in person inspection.

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You'd have to remove a bit of paint around that area to see what's going on.

Yep,
My interpretation too.

Cracked paint on top of the tube, flaked off paint on bottom'.

Feeling the tubes around the upper and lower head tube lugs, one may feel a ripple.

The question then is how serious is this. And, it is hard to say from the single photo. Do you have a couple more photos, direct side photos. Photos of both headtube lugs?

You could ride the bike for 100,000 miles without issues, or the crash could have induced stresses and you could get cracks in the metal developing in either the head tube, or the top tube or bottom tube, or across the lugs in the next few thousand miles.

I might be inclined to give it a try if it came with a very serious discount (say around $100 to $200 for the frame). If the seller is trying to sell it for more of a full price of $500 to $600 or so, then walk away... well... RUN!

This was my first thought as well, fwiw.

If this is an Ebay purchase, I would discuss all through the system, referencing the photo, and make sure it's explicitly understood that if that turns out to be a crack, the item is returnable. If that's not OK with the seller, I would walk.

Verified height and it's a bit too large so decided to pass. Thanks for all the responses.
Best, Ben

Although the OP has already passed on the frame, I'd like to comment.

I don't think it's crash damage. The tubing isn't bent. Crashes don't crack tubing without bending first. From my experience, cracks (if indeed that is what it is) are from an overheated tube and stresses from them.

I've seen lots of super close-up pictures that people post and others swear they know what it is wrong, but it turns out they aren't. I've had a lot of frames come through the Atelier that many have declared to be toast based on pictures that I've been able to save with some loving persuasion.

It's been Whapped.

I'm going to have to disagree, at least in part. I'd like to see some additional photos, including a full side view and both main tubes. However, cracked paint on the top of the tube and bottom of the tube looks extremely suspicious for crash damage.

A bend could be hard to detect... Can it spring back? I've found that one can often feel them better than seeing them.

As far as "being saved"... yes, most likely. There are frame alignment tools for just this purpose.

However, the value quickly comes into question. It is just not a frame I'd pay a premium price for. If it was available for a bargain price, then sure. Or,if I already owned the bike, I'd probably do the repairs if necessary, and keep riding it.

The main point should be not to judge a frame by only the photos. I'd be a bit suspicious of that cracked paint, and would like to see it in person. I'd ask if I could remove just a bit of the paint for inspection.

The 4-5 years I worked in an LBS I saw lots of frames that came in and where known to have crashed. I never saw one that had a crack and didn't show permanent bending. Cracks in steel frames are pretty rare, mostly around dropouts, sometimes under seat lugs. I've seen a few with cracks near lugs. Maybe this is one of them. I think it was a good move by the OP to walk away, even if the odds of it being a crack were low. Why risk it?

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:thumb:

this is why i always go with gugie's opinion in such matters...

he knows, and i know i don't. :D

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It has been my experience with buying vintage bike stuff on-line that one thing is true - if there is any doubt, at all, don't buy it.

I think it goes both ways. Some sellers list every minuscule rock chip... and the actual frame/part is much better than would seem from reading the ad.

Others take blurry photos from a distance, and it is worse than one would have imagined.

Some sellers stand behind their products. Others was their hands of it once it is in the mail. Bad packing must be the buyer's fault. :eek:

Toast.

Warpage doesn't tend to show up easily in photographs, but the cracks and paint flaking off behind the lug points are a definite tell tale sign.

Usually this is from a head on collision. I have seen frames fail on the DT right behind the butted section just from load and use, though it was quite rare. Happened sometimes during the early TIG welding days, when they tried to make the butts too short, at the same time that very thin gauge brittle heat treated tubes were being used for the first time. There was some other reason for a failure there that I recall, but I forget what it was exactly. Something about not matching compliance with the fork. Anyway, I digress. Almost certainly from a collision.

If there's no visible or detectable distortion or cracks, and it's 531, it's probably actually OK to ride. 531 is pretty ductile and tough. Even so I wouldn't buy it myself.

Yeah, two different questions here:
1. Is the frame safe? Just based on one picture, odds are, yes, IMO
2. Should I buy it? Why take the chance when there are so many options.

If you could have someone with knowledge inspect it, and there was a fair discount over market rate, it would be worth looking into. If there was another frame of equal value that you were interested in, why bother?

the bond market is near an inversion point. 9 out of 10 last occurrences of this there was a recession 6-23 months later.
add in tariffs... trade war... ( for those old enough, recall Nixon's wage and price controls and 10% duty on everything... )

I don't believe Colnago used Reynolds tubing on any of their bikes, at least not any of the top end bikes.

It is likely some version of Columbus tubing, SL, SLX, or a variety of Gilco style tubing, depending on the frame.

When I saw the fade and chrome lugs, my mind presumed it was a Mondia - AFAIK originators of that style. Especially since the OP already has one.

Forgot that Colnago started doing fades at some point in the 80s. Of course Colnago frames were Columbus.