Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Bar End Shifters?

Old 07-16-18, 09:05 AM
  #26  
seypat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,883
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 908 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 33 Times in 31 Posts
People actually get out of the saddle to pedal? Too much work for me. I'm never in that much of a hurry.
seypat is offline  
Old 07-16-18, 09:21 AM
  #27  
Salamandrine 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,883

Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr

Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1712 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 32 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by jyl View Post
Darn. Can anyone shift while standing using drops or bar-ends? What's the trick? I seem not coordinated enough.
I enjoyed Bandera's dry wit in answering this question, but perhaps someone should be more direct. Don't do it. People did not shift while standing up in vintage days. It would not have worked, and why would you need to anyway? Shift just before you stand up. Usually you go up a gear to stand. Wind it out. Sit down, and then shift if needed. There's usually a lull in the torque for a fraction of a second just after you sit.
Salamandrine is offline  
Old 07-16-18, 09:25 AM
  #28  
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Posts: 17,421
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 428 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Charles Wahl View Post
If you really wanted Simplex retrofrictions on bar-ends, and couldn't find the Simplex model, you could always mount the downtube models that fit Campy-standard braze-ons to the Riv "silver shifter" bar end mounts, no? A bit longer levers, though.
Yes. Shimano pods, too

.
Grand Bois is offline  
Old 07-16-18, 10:00 AM
  #29  
USAZorro
Señor Member
 
USAZorro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Florence, KY
Posts: 16,213

Bikes: Mostly English - predominantly Raleighs

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 695 Post(s)
Liked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by HTupolev View Post
...The hand doing the shifting is out past the ends of the drops, with most of its fingers not gripping the bar to a very meaningful degree, and its coordination is occupied with the shifting process...
Technique and a little practice. I shift barcons with only the pinkie and the part of my hand below the pinkie. It is a zen process, and requires only a fraction of my attention.

... and yes, there's no issue shifting while out of the saddle if you do it the way described above.

Back to the OP - I don't see any problem fitting them on a Team Pro, as long as you're not banging your knees on them. I have brifters on my '77.
__________________
In search of what to search for.

Last edited by USAZorro; 07-16-18 at 10:06 AM.
USAZorro is offline  
Old 07-16-18, 10:22 AM
  #30  
HTupolev
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,734
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1183 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
Technique and a little practice. I shift barcons with only the pinkie and the part of my hand below the pinkie. It is a zen process, and requires only a fraction of my attention.
I wasn't talking about the amount of my brain's attention it requires, but the amount of my hand's attention it requires. Fingers aren't fully independent of each other, and can't always act powerfully in arbitrary different directions.

The comment about not being able to do it when pumping at race effort is basically what I meant when I said it's clumsier than brifters and more disruptive to pedaling. You're not as well-braced by your hands through the shift, so you have to time the whole process a certain way alongside a relativelty low-gas pedal stroke.
With brifters, I can pretty much just lightly let off the tension at the instant the chain wants to move.

Last edited by HTupolev; 07-16-18 at 10:40 AM.
HTupolev is offline  
Old 07-16-18, 10:29 AM
  #31  
USAZorro
Señor Member
 
USAZorro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Florence, KY
Posts: 16,213

Bikes: Mostly English - predominantly Raleighs

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 695 Post(s)
Liked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by HTupolev View Post
I wasn't talking about the amount of my brain's attention it requires, but the amount of my hand's attention it requires. Fingers aren't fully independent of each other, and can't always act powerfully in arbitrary different directions.

Your comment about not being able to do it when pumping at race effort is basically what I meant when I said it's clumsier than brifters.
Wasn't my comment about not being able to do it when at race effort. I maintain that it can be rather easily done.

IF you are reaching for your bar end levers with your thumb, index, middle, or ring fingers, you are doing it inefficiently, and yes, you will have problems. The technique to employ is to grasp the drop near the end of the bar, and nudge the shifter (up or down) by flexing your wrist. Once your hand is in the proper position for this, the task becomes quite simple.
__________________
In search of what to search for.
USAZorro is offline  
Old 07-16-18, 10:35 AM
  #32  
HTupolev
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,734
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1183 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
IF you are reaching for your bar end levers with your thumb, index, middle, or ring fingers, you are doing it inefficiently, and yes, you will have problems. The technique to employ is to grasp the drop near the end of the bar, and nudge the shifter (up or down) by flexing your wrist. Once your hand is in the proper position for this, the task becomes quite simple.
That's exactly what I do. And the task is indeed quite simple.
HTupolev is offline  
Old 07-16-18, 11:14 AM
  #33  
USAZorro
Señor Member
 
USAZorro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Florence, KY
Posts: 16,213

Bikes: Mostly English - predominantly Raleighs

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 695 Post(s)
Liked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by HTupolev View Post
That's exactly what I do. And the task is indeed quite simple.
The "most fingers not gripping the bar to any meaningful degree" part had me imagining that something else was going on. I feel no sacrifice of control when shifting them.
__________________
In search of what to search for.
USAZorro is offline  
Old 07-16-18, 11:26 AM
  #34  
Chombi1 
Senior Member
 
Chombi1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,760
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 969 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
Yes. Shimano pods, too

.
Sacre bleu!!...
"Simplexno" retrofrictions!
Chombi1 is offline  
Old 07-16-18, 11:42 AM
  #35  
Doohickie 
You gonna eat that?
 
Doohickie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Fort Worth, Texas Church of Hopeful Uncertainty
Posts: 14,682

Bikes: 1966 Raleigh DL-1 Tourist, 1973 Schwinn Varsity, 1983 Raleigh Marathon, 1994 Nishiki Sport XRS

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by jyl View Post
What do you think about bar end shifters? Do you use them on your strict C&V builds?

I've been thinking about how to make my 1978 Team Pro more rideable. One issue I have with the downtube shifters (Simplex retrofrictions) is that I am not coordinated enough to shift when riding out of the saddle. So if I'm, say, pushing hard on a hill and the grade eases so that I want a bigger gear, I have to sit down, shift, and get up again. I've gotten used to simply shifting while staying up, using brifters and Gevenalle shifters.

I do recall from prior bikes with bar ends that sometimes my knee hit them when sprinting or climbing out of the saddle. I don't know if those bikes were perhaps poorly sized for me.

So, the book on the Ti-Raleigh teams shows a few team bikes with bar ends, in races. Apparently a few of the team riders used them, back in 1976-1980, and thus I could try bar ends without losing the "correctness" that is important for this particular bike in the fleet.

I have a suitable set of bar end shifters and some CLB alloy housing that I could install. One thing I wonder is if Benotto tape works well when wrapped over housing. The other is if I should try to adapt the retrofrictions for bar end use, and how.

Comments?
I'm a tall guy and generally ride a 25" frame. I find it's way too long of a reach to downtube shifters and my two drop bar bikes now have Suntour Barcon friction shifters (picked them up hear and there, you can still find them on ebay). The Barcons go back a long ways, long before either of my drop bar bikes were built (1983, 1994). I also cheated a bit on the freewheels and use ramped freewheels (the kind used with indexed shifting) to help the shifting performance.
__________________
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.


Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
Doohickie is offline  
Old 07-16-18, 12:32 PM
  #36  
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Village, New York City
Posts: 37,135

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1973 Raleigh Twenty, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 419 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5358 Post(s)
Liked 77 Times in 60 Posts
@jyl, I had bar-ends for years, and I think it's a good location for shifters. I can't remember if I shifted them while standing. I do know you can wrap housing with Benotto tape.

I have a pair of Shimano bar-ends you can have. Let me know if you want them.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Old 07-16-18, 12:47 PM
  #37  
Kovkov
Senior Member
 
Kovkov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 260

Bikes: 1957 Alpa Special, 1963 Condor Delta, 1967 Tigra Sprint, 1977 Oltenia, 1987 Mondia, 1965 Staco de luxe, 1969 Amberg

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times in 7 Posts
I would keep the downtube shifters and develop more strength so you don‘t have to stand up. At the moment i have to stand up i accept defeat, dismount and push.
Kovkov is offline  
Old 07-16-18, 12:50 PM
  #38  
Doohickie 
You gonna eat that?
 
Doohickie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Fort Worth, Texas Church of Hopeful Uncertainty
Posts: 14,682

Bikes: 1966 Raleigh DL-1 Tourist, 1973 Schwinn Varsity, 1983 Raleigh Marathon, 1994 Nishiki Sport XRS

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Kovkov View Post
I would keep the downtube shifters and develop more strength so you don‘t have to stand up. At the moment i have to stand up i accept defeat, dismount and push.
Some might argue that you're not using good technique.
__________________
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.


Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
Doohickie is offline  
Old 07-16-18, 01:04 PM
  #39  
jyl
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jyl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 7,516

Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997

Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 337 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks everyone. Tom, I appreciate the offer but I think I will figure out a way to use the Simplex retrofrictions on bar-end mounts. I am trying to stay fairly "correct" on this bike.
jyl is offline  
Old 07-16-18, 04:27 PM
  #40  
The Golden Boy 
Extraordinary Magnitude
 
The Golden Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 11,333

Bikes: 1977 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT

Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1700 Post(s)
Liked 40 Times in 32 Posts
Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
I enjoyed Bandera's dry wit in answering this question, but perhaps someone should be more direct. Don't do it. People did not shift while standing up in vintage days. It would not have worked, and why would you need to anyway? Shift just before you stand up. Usually you go up a gear to stand. Wind it out. Sit down, and then shift if needed. There's usually a lull in the torque for a fraction of a second just after you sit.
I'd imagine riding DUI bars would make it easy to shift while standing!
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*

Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!

"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
The Golden Boy is offline  
Old 07-16-18, 06:40 PM
  #41  
GAJett
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 99

Bikes: 1973 Raleigh Competition, 2010 Rivendell A. Homer Hilsen, 2010's Bike Friday Pocket Companion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
They do. Both Simplex and Shimano made them:


VeloBase.com - Component: Shimano L-600 Fingertip Control Barcons

But as you note finding a set can be a problem, and they tend to be costly when you do find them.
Cool seeing those. I put a set on my Raliegh Comp some 40 years ago. They're going back on soon. The kid wanted to experiment with downtube. But he's on his own now.
Cheers!
GAJett is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
mattscq
Framebuilders
20
05-31-19 03:16 PM
tspek
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing
35
02-16-10 01:40 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.