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Dented vs. Indented
Originally Posted by randyjawa
(Post 20452880)
According to the dictionary, a dent is "a slight hollow in a hard, even surface made by a blow or by the exertion of pressure".
And indent is, "deep recesses or notches in (a line or surface)". Yup, those darn dents are actually indents. I can learns stuff all the time, eh. Anyway, goods heads up on my poor choice of words. Good to get today's mistake out of the way early:-) I wasn't aware of the difference between dented and indented so there, I learned something too. :) Are you using a Canadian English dictionary or a US one eh? :D The US and the UK... two peoples divided by a common language. :lol: "Remember, if the women don't find you handsome, at least they'll find your handy!" Red Green verktyg :50: |
Originally Posted by verktyg
(Post 20454579)
Not a poor choice of words. I commented that you described the results very well and I use the word indented. :thumb:
I wasn't aware of the difference between dented and indented so there, I learned something too. :) Are you using a Canadian English dictionary or a US one eh? :D The US and the UK... two peoples divided by a common language. :lol: "Remember, if the women don't find you handsome, at least they'll find your handy!" Red Green verktyg :50: You have won the Award for using the most Canadian stereotypes in one post :rolleyes: Oh and by the way Canada is not in the UK (lately I wish we were). You can verify that by checking a map. :) Scotty :50: |
Originally Posted by Wileyone
(Post 20454644)
Oh and by the way Canada is not in the UK (lately I wish we were). Scotty :50: |
Welcome back, [MENTION=29368]rootboy[/MENTION]. We missed you.
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A headset's job is to keep the fork and frame together with the absolute minimum of play, while allowing easy rotation, and lasting a long time while exposed to a lot of junk flung at it by wheel and road. It's a tall order. Crappy headset may contribute significantly to shimmy problems. Vintage frame and fork are built with a limited range of stack that will work. Worth paying a bit more for one that does all those things, and looks good too.
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Well then, what's the least you can spend that fulfills these requirements? Did I spend too little? It was $10 or $12, and it's serving me perfectly so far.
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Originally Posted by noglider
(Post 20456346)
Well then, what's the least you can spend that fulfills these requirements? Did I spend too little? It was $10 or $12, and it's serving me perfectly so far.
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Originally Posted by Charles Wahl
(Post 20456434)
OP asked why headsets matter, not the least one had to spend to be satisfied. I think you may now know how little you can spend and be happy with a headset; but maybe you should try again, and see how it goes.
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Originally Posted by obrentharris
(Post 20451649)
Durability.
That's why Chris King headsets have been my preference for almost 40 years... but I think the first King headset was made in the late seventies so not period-correct for earlier bikes. Brent |
Originally Posted by verktyg
(Post 20452382)
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...40154b0ece.jpg The latest version uses precision sealed ball bearing cartridges. The seem to work as well but I think the needle bearing style was perfect. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. NOTE: there are some black Stronglight A9 headsets being sold on eBay. They are painted steel not aluminum and they have plain caged ball bearings. https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6f90c934af.jpg Let me ask a noob question here, but I assume the steel Stronglight headsets with the caged ball bearings, aren't as good as the aluminium version(s) with the cartridge ball bearings? |
Let me put it in visceral terms. A bad headset will make the bike handle poorly. You may not even know it is the headset, and may think the bike is just a bit off, misaligned, poorly designed or flexy. The bike may feel twitchy, like it won’t go straight, or is difficult to ride with no hands. You may not even know there is a problem until after replacing the headset and feeling the improvement. A headset may be bad from the start, or get damaged easily during assembly, and will be harder to get dialed in just right. It may have insufficient seals against water and dirt, or seals that cause drag. And will deteriorate more quickly. These days it doesn’t cost much to get a decent headset. But over the years having cracked, shattered, contaminated and worn out, dented (or indented or whatever), I tend to notice headset problems early. $40 or $140? A bit like picking fly poop out of pepper. |
Originally Posted by Doohickie
(Post 20456452)
I have several older bikes, all using the original headsets. So.... what's your point?
Brent |
Stronglight A9 Versions
Originally Posted by ColonelSanders
(Post 20456479)
Let me ask a noob question here, but I assume the steel Stronglight headsets with the caged ball bearings, aren't as good as the aluminium version(s) with the cartridge ball bearings?
Aside from the black painted surface vs. chromed plating, they're most likely case hardened low quality steel with unground bearing races. The original aluminum A9 headsets were much better quality than the cheap black steel ones. The new ones with the sealed cartridges are even better made than the original A9s. They're selling for ~$60. A cheap headset lower bearing cup. Notice the rough surface of the chrome plating in the bearing races. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a01f587c00.jpg Precision ground bearing races in a quality headset cup. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ff323a058b.jpg Caged headset bearings. One problem with cages is the tend to keep the balls in the same position which increases the likelihood for indenting via wear and/or impact. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ac67786bd9.jpg Indented crown race https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d61ff46223.jpg The indentations most frequently occur in the crown race and lower headset cup. They are located in the same position in both parts which results in "indexing". There's a cheap temporary fix for indexing. Remove the fork and remove either the bottom head tube cup or crown race. Rotate it a few degrees and reassemble. verktyg :50: |
Originally Posted by verktyg
(Post 20456596)
Just to be clear, I was discussing the currently manufactured black painted Stronglight A9 steel headsets. They are currently selling on eBay for $16 to $30. You get what you pay for!
Aside from the black painted surface vs. chromed plating, they're most likely case hardened low quality steel with unground bearing races. The original aluminum A9 headsets were much better quality than the cheap black steel ones. The new ones with the sealed cartridges are even better made than the original A9s. They're selling for ~$60. A cheap headset lower bearing cup. Notice the rough surface of the chrome plating in the bearing races. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a01f587c00.jpg Precision ground bearing races in a quality headset cup. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ff323a058b.jpg Caged headset bearings. One problem with cages is the tend to keep the balls in the same position which increases the likelihood for indenting via wear and/or impact. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ac67786bd9.jpg Indented crown race https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d61ff46223.jpg The indentations most frequently occur in the crown race and lower headset cup. They are located in the same position in both parts which results in "indexing". There's a cheap temporary fix for indexing. Remove the fork and remove either the bottom head tube cup or crown race. Rotate it a few degrees and reassemble. verktyg :50: Scotty :50: |
Originally Posted by wileyone
(Post 20456621)
or you could just dump the cages and replace with quality loose balls. Makes for a smoother headset.
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I had to disassemble and clean the Campagnolo headset on my Austro Daimler build a few nights ago. I was blown away by the quality.
Don't know if this translates to better performance or longevity, but the steering is impossibly smooth after cleaning, re-greasing, and reassembly. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...256f1c8e23.jpg |
Originally Posted by Wileyone
(Post 20456621)
Or you could just dump the cages and replace with quality loose balls. Makes for a smoother Headset.
Scotty :50: |
A loose stem / headset did not prevent Peter Sagan from winning the 2018 Paris Roubaix.
I'm not sure whether the takeaway is that headsets are pretty irrelevant even to professional racers . . . or Sagan is so good that a even a bad headset can't stop him. Guess it could be spun either way. |
Originally Posted by Colnago Mixte
(Post 20456945)
A loose stem / headset did not prevent Peter Sagan from winning the 2018 Paris Roubaix.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfqbQdsN9-A I'm not sure whether the takeaway is that headsets are pretty irrelevant even to professional racers . . . or Sagan is so good that a even a bad headset can't stop him. Guess it could be spun either way. |
Originally Posted by Wileyone
(Post 20454644)
Congratulations...
You have won the Award for using the most Canadian stereotypes in one post :rolleyes: Oh and by the way Canada is not in the UK (lately I wish we were). You can verify that by checking a map. :) |
Originally Posted by madpogue
(Post 20457368)
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...16a5a82077.jpg
Imagine having to switch sides of the road crossing the Ambassador Bridge.... |
Originally Posted by verktyg
(Post 20456596)
Just to be clear, I was discussing the currently manufactured black painted Stronglight A9 steel headsets. They are currently selling on eBay for $16 to $30. You get what you pay for!
Aside from the black painted surface vs. chromed plating, they're most likely case hardened low quality steel with unground bearing races. The original aluminum A9 headsets were much better quality than the cheap black steel ones. The new ones with the sealed cartridges are even better made than the original A9s. They're selling for ~$60. A cheap headset lower bearing cup. Notice the rough surface of the chrome plating in the bearing races. Precision ground bearing races in a quality headset cup. Caged headset bearings. One problem with cages is the tend to keep the balls in the same position which increases the likelihood for indenting via wear and/or impact. Indented crown race The indentations most frequently occur in the crown race and lower headset cup. They are located in the same position in both parts which results in "indexing". There's a cheap temporary fix for indexing. Remove the fork and remove either the bottom head tube cup or crown race. Rotate it a few degrees and reassemble. verktyg :50: Thanks, I've made a much needed addition to my knowledge bank, thanks to your replies. :) |
Originally Posted by Wileyone
(Post 20457387)
Another Trump supporter...
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Originally Posted by plonz
(Post 20458803)
And who would be stereotyping now? :foo: |
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