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700C 36H Rims with "Old School" Look

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700C 36H Rims with "Old School" Look

Old 07-16-18, 08:13 PM
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700C 36H Rims with "Old School" Look

I love the look of my old polished aluminum Rigida rims. About 8 years ago, I found out about the Sun CR-18's which have a similar look. To save on shipping I bought several pair, 27 inch and 700C for my vintage road bikes.

I built a pair of wheels using Sun Cr-18 and at the same time re-laced a pair of wheels that had Rigida 13-20 rims. I used 14 g (straight) DT spokes (3X) and both wheelsets are 27" 36H and have continental Ultra-Sport 27 x 1-1/8" tires. The Cr-18's were laced to Shimano high-flange hubs and the Rigida's to Campy low-flange hubs.

After about 8 years of riding both sets, the Rigida's are still pretty true. The Sun's on the other hand have considerable wobble, especially in the rear.

I was pretty excited about the Sun CR-18 since they have a similar profile as the Rigida's and are polished aluminum, not anodized. Now I'm a little skeptical about lacing up another pair with them. The excessive wobble could be a result of my technique, I'm not a seasoned wheel builder but I did use a Wheel-Smith tensiometer.

Still looking for a modern set of rims that look old school. Any suggestions?

EDIT: I believe the rims I have are Sun M13 / ll, and not the CR18

Last edited by branko_76; 07-16-18 at 09:56 PM. Reason: error
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Old 07-16-18, 08:19 PM
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I bought a set of H+Son polished TB14 rims and laced them to a pair of Campy NR high flange hubs for my P13-9. Pricey but beautiful, and very well made.
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Old 07-16-18, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by branko_76
I love the look of my old polished aluminum Rigida rims. About 8 years ago, I found out about the Sun CR-18's which have a similar look. To save on shipping I bought several pair, 27 inch and 700C for my vintage road bikes.

I built a pair of wheels using Sun Cr-18 and at the same time re-laced a pair of wheels that had Rigida 13-20 rims. I used 14 g (straight) DT spokes (3X) and both wheelsets are 27" 36H and have continental Ultra-Sport 27 x 1-1/8" tires. The Cr-18's were laced to Shimano high-flange hubs and the Rigida's to Campy low-flange hubs.

After about 8 years of riding both sets, the Rigida's are still pretty true. The Sun's on the other hand have considerable wobble, especially in the rear.

I was pretty excited about the Sun CR-18 since they have a similar profile as the Rigida's and are polished aluminum, not anodized. Now I'm a little skeptical about lacing up another pair with them. The excessive wobble could be a result of my technique, I'm not a seasoned wheel builder but I did use a Wheel-Smith tensiometer.

Still looking for a modern set of rims that look old school. Any suggestions?
I have a number of CR18 wheelsets on old Raleighs and on a Bob Jackson: 650a, 700c, 27". Haven't had any trouble with them other than they don't build as easily as, for example, Open Pros or Dyads. I've ridden some of them while weighing as much as 250# (ouch!). I'm probably not too hard on wheels as I ride on paved city streets and county roads and don't ride over curbs and the like. My suggestion would be to retrue the wheels, adjust tension and dish, and make sure to give the spokes a good excersize/stress relief. It makes a big difference.

I've never actually seen one of the H Son rims, but from what I read, they are well made and probably rounder and flatter out of the box than are CR18s. Probably have better joints. There are Halo rims and Velo Orange rims that look like vintage profile too. Even Mavic Open Pros aren't too modern looking.

My experience with Rigida isn't so hot, but it may be my fault as they were the first wheels I built. A very narrow rim called "Rigida Score". Don't know what the model number is. They seemed to dent easily and cracked around the eyelets. But, it may have just been a poor build on my part.
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Old 07-16-18, 09:21 PM
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IMO the Sun M13II rims look pretty much exactly like the old Rigida 1320. CR18 have a more modern appearance. IME M13 rims are significantly tougher than Rigida rims, and I've used both. Granted, the Rigidas were decades ago. Can't speak to the CR18s, as I've never owned them myself.

Did you ever touch up the true on your wheels? Old wheels were trued regularly if you rode regularly. Not fair to evaluate until the they've settled in and been retrued a couple times. I gather that this seems strange to modern sensibilities, but it's normal. You don't simply build wheels once and never touch them again, especially if you are a newbie wheelbuilder. Sorry to be the one to say this, but quite possibly it was your experience level. Anyway, wheels can be retrued until the spoke tension to keep them true becomes too uneven. It's quite possible they simply weren't prestressed adequately. True them up again and see if they hold.
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Old 07-16-18, 09:52 PM
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Another H+Son TB14 fan here. Very high quality. You have to look around a bit for the 36h versions but they are out there.
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Old 07-16-18, 09:59 PM
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Thanks for the replies. It's been a while so I think what I have are the Sun M13 / ll and not the CR-18 which I believe are wider.
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Old 07-16-18, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by PilotFishBob
I bought a set of H+Son polished TB14 rims and laced them to a pair of Campy NR high flange hubs for my P13-9. Pricey but beautiful, and very well made.
I just looked up the TB14's and they are beautiful rims. Is that little deal at the valve hole necessary? Is it removable?
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Old 07-16-18, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by desconhecido
I have a number of CR18 wheelsets on old Raleighs and on a Bob Jackson: 650a, 700c, 27". Haven't had any trouble with them other than they don't build as easily as, for example, Open Pros or Dyads. I've ridden some of them while weighing as much as 250# (ouch!). I'm probably not too hard on wheels as I ride on paved city streets and county roads and don't ride over curbs and the like. My suggestion would be to retrue the wheels, adjust tension and dish, and make sure to give the spokes a good excersize/stress relief. It makes a big difference.

I've never actually seen one of the H Son rims, but from what I read, they are well made and probably rounder and flatter out of the box than are CR18s. Probably have better joints. There are Halo rims and Velo Orange rims that look like vintage profile too. Even Mavic Open Pros aren't too modern looking.

My experience with Rigida isn't so hot, but it may be my fault as they were the first wheels I built. A very narrow rim called "Rigida Score". Don't know what the model number is. They seemed to dent easily and cracked around the eyelets. But, it may have just been a poor build on my part.
I updated my original post, what I have are the Sun M13/ll.

I haven't trued them since building them so I'll give that a try.
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Old 07-16-18, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine
IMO the Sun M13II rims look pretty much exactly like the old Rigida 1320. CR18 have a more modern appearance. IME M13 rims are significantly tougher than Rigida rims, and I've used both. Granted, the Rigidas were decades ago. Can't speak to the CR18s, as I've never owned them myself.

Did you ever touch up the true on your wheels? Old wheels were trued regularly if you rode regularly. Not fair to evaluate until the they've settled in and been retrued a couple times. I gather that this seems strange to modern sensibilities, but it's normal. You don't simply build wheels once and never touch them again, especially if you are a newbie wheelbuilder. Sorry to be the one to say this, but quite possibly it was your experience level. Anyway, wheels can be retrued until the spoke tension to keep them true becomes too uneven. It's quite possible they simply weren't prestressed adequately. True them up again and see if they hold.
That's exactly what I have, Sun M13/ll (not CR18) and Rigida 1320.

You don't need to apologize for giving constructive criticism, it's well taken. I'm going to revisit the truing stand.
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Old 07-16-18, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by branko_76
I just looked up the TB14's and they are beautiful rims. Is that little deal at the valve hole necessary? Is it removable?
Not removable, at least not if you want a decent guide for the valve stem.

Great rims, Iíve built two sets.
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Old 07-17-18, 02:44 AM
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o.k., so it does serve a purpose.
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Old 07-17-18, 06:28 AM
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The badge around the valve hole looks much nicer in reality than in the photos, really no different in aesthetics than a traditional rim decal. I also considered the Velo Orange Diagnonales but they appear to have a minor "roof slope" on the inside surface, like the CR-18's but not as pronounced. The Sons have the traditional box structure I wanted. FWIW, bikehubstore.com has the 36 hole versions in stock, I got the rims and spokes there. When the slush fund recovers I'll be back for one more set, new project brewing....
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Old 07-17-18, 09:37 AM
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I'm going to put those H + Sons TB14 rims on my to get list.
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Old 07-17-18, 09:45 AM
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The badge thing on the H+ sons rims is a counterweight for the internal plug in the joint at the other side of the rim. Most if not all rims and therefore wheels are unbalanced because of this plug. The valve stem partly counterbalances the plug but not quite. It isn't necessary on a bike to have perfectly balanced wheels, but it's a nice touch. There were some Italian made rims in the 80s that had a very similar looking counterbalance around the valve.
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Old 07-17-18, 10:48 AM
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Let's not forget the counterbalancing (or unbalancing) effect of the CPSC reflector (or the removal thereof...).
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Old 07-17-18, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by branko_76
...

I haven't trued them since building them so I'll give that a try.
That would explain the wobble. Easy fix.

Originally Posted by madpogue
Let's not forget the counterbalancing (or unbalancing) effect of the CPSC reflector (or the removal thereof...).
I never thought of that; I wonder if the wheel builders ever did. You'd think the high-end guys would know that the owners would just remove them anyway and therefore didn't take into consideration counterbalancing the effect of a reflector's absence or presence. And the low end guys wouldn't care so much ether way.
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Old 07-17-18, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine
The badge thing on the H+ sons rims is a counterweight for the internal plug in the joint at the other side of the rim. Most if not all rims and therefore wheels are unbalanced because of this plug. The valve stem partly counterbalances the plug but not quite. It isn't necessary on a bike to have perfectly balanced wheels, but it's a nice touch. There were some Italian made rims in the 80s that had a very similar looking counterbalance around the valve.
I think I've seen that in pictures of vintage Nisi rims (Gipiemme). I have a pair of Nisi rims that I don't remember buying -- blame the Lunesta. I've been afraid to build them into wheels until I lose about 50 #.
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Old 07-17-18, 03:34 PM
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Another choice is the soma eldon rim
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Old 07-17-18, 03:34 PM
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Another nice thing about the TB-14s is that they're a bit wider, if that sort of thing is important to you.
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Old 07-17-18, 03:51 PM
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A comment on the raw aluminum Sum M13 mark II rims- these for me shred aluminum into the brake blocks more often than any others thus far.
I do live on a hill and negotiate a decent descent. Challenge to keep the rims cool enough to not do this.
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Old 07-17-18, 03:53 PM
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Per [MENTION=373854]ksryder[/MENTION], extra width was also part of my selection. I had also looked at the M18's but - too narrow, I wanted to use at least 25mm tires, and the Sons give a nice profile with those and above. For no good reasion other than pure exhibitionism, a gratuitous pic of the P13-9 with aforementioned built-up H+Son wheelsets.

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Old 07-18-18, 07:30 AM
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I don't know what model rims it has, but my Volare came with some nice looking Velo-Orange box section rims.
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