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Are C&V values falling (quickly) or summer doldrums?

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Are C&V values falling (quickly) or summer doldrums?

Old 07-23-18, 04:34 PM
  #51  
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I've been getting them for free. Old guys needing to move and wanting to get that bike in the basement to a good home. Also guys discovering that their rough condition old treasure is not worth much at all without a lot of cleanup and a lot of work. They talk to one whippersnapper who wants to make it a fixie or force a 135 hub in the rear forks and they would rather give it away. Have a '73 Colnago Super that way and yes it cleaned up nicely.

There are lots of classic bikes out there offered for sale for a song. If all you want is Bridgestone Paramount International yeah those hold value a little. Spread out a little and there are just lots of great bikes. There's a Tom Kellogg in local craigslist been for sale for two years for 400. Too small for me but in top condition and the seller is a reasonable person. But no one knows who Tom Kellogg is so the bike is basically unsaleable. Found a Charles Sabliere for a friend for 150. Charles who?
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Old 07-23-18, 08:33 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Narhay View Post
Brifters have come down in price to where your average joe can afford a 'race bike'. Suddenly the modern amenities are affordable and a used, sometimes new, modernish brifter bike can be had for the same money as a mid range C&V bike with 'obsolete' components.

.
+10 I am seeing early 2000s Ultegra STI bikes at ridiculously low prices recently, Basically where SORA bikes were selling 4 years ago. Prices are certainly down. Vintage components have held their value and have continued to go up in value (for the top of the line stuff). Mid level complete vintage bikes, say mid 1980s Japanese model with 600 series components no longer get much interest. I'm sadly in the process of parting out a couple of them right now.

Now top of the line vintage models continue to do well.

I see local sellers who think prices are as strong as they were four years ago. Their bikes continue to be relisted, some for well over a year already.
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Old 07-24-18, 08:49 AM
  #53  
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Today, there are some very good buys in the "are you looking for one of these" thread.
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Old 07-24-18, 11:43 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
+10 I am seeing early 2000s Ultegra STI bikes at ridiculously low prices recently, Basically where SORA bikes were selling 4 years ago. Prices are certainly down. Vintage components have held their value and have continued to go up in value (for the top of the line stuff). Mid level complete vintage bikes, say mid 1980s Japanese model with 600 series components no longer get much interest. I'm sadly in the process of parting out a couple of them right now.
I bought a 2007 Fuji cyclocross bike with 105 STI (5600) and Ultegra derailleurs for $200 recently. I was looking for a cheap bike to keep on the east coast and thought vintage was going to be the way to go, but this was the best I could find. Obviously you can get a very nice vintage bike for $200 if you're patient, but if you've got a two or three day window your options are sometimes limited. And, honestly, for a beater bike this Fuji would have been tough to beat at that price point. My brother (not a bike guy) looked at it and asked, "What makes this bike so nice that it would be worth $200?"
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Old 07-24-18, 03:02 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
Does saving the old parts or starting with a bare frame keep me from being a hipster?


I don't want to turn this into a debate about period-correctness, but my view is that most vintage bikes, certainly including "'80's era steel Treks" such as the OP started with aren't so classic that they need to be preserved in their original form. If they're being ridden, that's a win. They really don't need to be ridden with toe clips, friction shifters, and non-aero brake levers if that's not something the current owner likes. Someone once told me that I had "enough" vintage bikes set up with modern components. Well, what does that mean? I have "enough" bikes set up the way I want them to be for riding? That's like saying I have enough bikes. That's crazy talk.


I will certainly grant that there are some bikes that are sufficiently classic that in some sense they "should" be set up with period correct components. I have one bike like this and am in the process of building a second one that way. Will I then have "enough" vintage bikes with period-correct components? The question is meaningless. I'll keep buying vintage bikes because I like them a lot. I'll decide on a case-by-case basis what components I think they ought to have. Sometimes that will be modern. Sometimes period-correct. I don't think my choice of building a vintage frame with modern components does anything at all to hurt the market value of vintage bikes. Quite the opposite. This behavior makes mid-level bikes much more attractive to me. If you told me I had to keep my 1982 Trek 614 all original, I'd probably sell it. With early 21st century 10-speed components, I think it's a wonderful bike -- better than anything I can buy new.

I have a similar approach to Andy K in regards to what am I going to do with the latest old steel bike that seems to have magically appeared in my garage. In fact part of my joy is the torture I self impose as I debate period correct or old meets new. I love the ride that a steel bike with carbon wheels has as much as a buttery geared 12 speed on those beautiful old school tubulars.... all spindly looking. In fact truth be told my favourite bike always seems to be the one I have just dismounted. Anyway back to the thread, not wanting to be a spokesperson for NZ prices, there is a small groundswell of C&V enthusiasts who keep prices steady but seem reasonable for what you can get for your dollars these days. A good butted steel bike needing work can be got for $200 or even less, a collectable higher end bike around $400 to $600 that is ready to ride in near period correct guise, then of course anything Italian goes a bit mental which seems to be the universal way. NZ is well into a huge MTB boom and road bikes are not popular. ex Roadies are selling up I can go into a bike shop and have to hunt for a roadie for sale. Our local cycle club struggles for numbers as most seem to want to bounce up and down. Good time for us nutters to keep eyes open.
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Old 07-24-18, 03:35 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
Does saving the old parts or starting with a bare frame keep me from being a hipster?


I don't want to turn this into a debate about period-correctness, but my view is that most vintage bikes, certainly including "'80's era steel Treks" such as the OP started with aren't so classic that they need to be preserved in their original form. If they're being ridden, that's a win. They really don't need to be ridden with toe clips, friction shifters, and non-aero brake levers if that's not something the current owner likes. Someone once told me that I had "enough" vintage bikes set up with modern components. Well, what does that mean? I have "enough" bikes set up the way I want them to be for riding? That's like saying I have enough bikes. That's crazy talk.


I will certainly grant that there are some bikes that are sufficiently classic that in some sense they "should" be set up with period correct components. I have one bike like this and am in the process of building a second one that way. Will I then have "enough" vintage bikes with period-correct components? The question is meaningless. I'll keep buying vintage bikes because I like them a lot. I'll decide on a case-by-case basis what components I think they ought to have. Sometimes that will be modern. Sometimes period-correct. I don't think my choice of building a vintage frame with modern components does anything at all to hurt the market value of vintage bikes. Quite the opposite. This behavior makes mid-level bikes much more attractive to me. If you told me I had to keep my 1982 Trek 614 all original, I'd probably sell it. With early 21st century 10-speed components, I think it's a wonderful bike -- better than anything I can buy new.

I have a similar approach to Andy K in regards to what am I going to do with the latest old steel bike that seems to have magically appeared in my garage. In fact part of my joy is the torture I self impose as I debate period correct or old meets new. I love the ride that a steel bike with carbon wheels has as much as a buttery geared 12 speed on those beautiful old school tubulars.... all spindly looking. In fact truth be told my favourite bike always seems to be the one I have just dismounted. Anyway back to the thread, not wanting to be a spokesperson for NZ prices, there is a small groundswell of C&V enthusiasts who keep prices steady but seem reasonable for what you can get for your dollars these days. A good butted steel bike needing work can be got for $200 or even less, a collectable higher end bike around $400 to $600 that is ready to ride in near period correct guise, then of course anything Italian goes a bit mental which seems to be the universal way. NZ is well into a huge MTB boom and road bikes are not popular. ex Roadies are selling up I can go into a bike shop and have to hunt for a roadie for sale. Our local cycle club struggles for numbers as most seem to want to bounce up and down. Good time for us nutters to keep eyes open.
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Old 07-24-18, 08:19 PM
  #57  
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I've been out of the market a while. When I bought my first bike it was nice going on Craigslist and finding someone elses 'junk' that I still still had an appreciation toward. Then it seemed like two or three flippers got a monopoly on anything decent. For the amount of money they were asking with little to no improvement, I could just save a little more and get something new. It's part nostalgia, part being frugal that drove my interest. Now it seems they are charging low end lbs prices for something you know nothing of the origin, and sometimes you can see stuff was repaired or even swapped out with junk parts.
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Old 07-25-18, 05:21 AM
  #58  
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In any large city where biking is popular, the arrival of CitiBike type programs has pretty much killed the casual buyer of older equipment. Why purchase a bike and then have to lock it to a fence, deal with potential theft, upkeep, etc. when you can just stroll down the block and unlock a new-ish rental and drop it off at another convenient location- or with the new dockless bikeshare programs, just leave it where you arrive.

Add to that the proliferation of early 2000-ish bikes with STI's that are available for $500 or so and that puts the dump on nicely upgraded or fully refurbished mid level vintage bikes (this used to be the segment of the market where I did most of my bike sales).

Upper end stuff, e.g. really really nice name brand Italians, remains in the $1200-1800 range depending on location and condition. I've paid the low end of that range for bikes that would otherwise be in the top end of that range over the last year or so.

But that's just my experience.
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Old 07-25-18, 06:46 AM
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I just sold the 1950 Carlton Continental on Ebay to a collector in Ohio. After Ebay fees and shipping I'll come out with $100 profit, but I learned a whole lot about some old high-end British equipment and the Simplex Grand Prix derailleur set up, as well as the general quality of the Carlton frame. It was fun to ride around for a while, but was definitely too small for me.

I was getting nervous about making a sale before summer is over and I have a trip planned with my wife, because I've also noticed the trend of rather low prices lately. I don't mind breaking even on bikes, but just now I want a couple gone. Priorities!

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Old 07-25-18, 09:37 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
Does saving the old parts or starting with a bare frame keep me from being a hipster?

I don't want to turn this into a debate about period-correctness, but my view is that most vintage bikes, certainly including "'80's era steel Treks" such as the OP started with aren't so classic that they need to be preserved in their original form. If they're being ridden, that's a win. They really don't need to be ridden with toe clips, friction shifters, and non-aero brake levers if that's not something the current owner likes. Someone once told me that I had "enough" vintage bikes set up with modern components. Well, what does that mean? I have "enough" bikes set up the way I want them to be for riding? That's like saying I have enough bikes. That's crazy talk.

I will certainly grant that there are some bikes that are sufficiently classic that in some sense they "should" be set up with period correct components. I have one bike like this and am in the process of building a second one that way. Will I then have "enough" vintage bikes with period-correct components? The question is meaningless. I'll keep buying vintage bikes because I like them a lot. I'll decide on a case-by-case basis what components I think they ought to have. Sometimes that will be modern. Sometimes period-correct. I don't think my choice of building a vintage frame with modern components does anything at all to hurt the market value of vintage bikes. Quite the opposite. This behavior makes mid-level bikes much more attractive to me. If you told me I had to keep my 1982 Trek 614 all original, I'd probably sell it. With early 21st century 10-speed components, I think it's a wonderful bike -- better than anything I can buy new.
Agreed - and unlike many C&V folks I don't have multiple classic bikes - just the one 1985 Trek 410 that I bought and replaced all the components (except the seat post, seat, and headset) with more modern equipment (10 speed drive train with indexed DT shifters, Tektro brakes, 650b, etc.). I really like the feel of this bike - much more than my 'modern' CF Specialized Roubaix - and I don't have any major plans to replace it. But if I do I will simply remove all of the new equipment and re-install on the next project frame - that's half the fun!

Like Andy K, if I had to ride my Trek with its original components I wouldn't - no offense to all those who love their 'original' bikes.

Prices in my area (NE US) are such that there are plenty of options for good-condition, mid-range, vintage steel bikes in the $100 to $200 range - haven't noticed a significant price drop recently. Occasionally, a really special vintage bike shows up on CL for somewhat more - $400 to $600 - although these bikes sometimes go unsold.
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Old 07-26-18, 08:24 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by jrbz View Post
Just a guess, but around here BabyBoomers are:
A. Getting out of sports and selling off equipment cheap
B. Getting out of large hi-maintenance houses and moving into apartments, townhouses, etc. and selling off decades of accumulated stuff.
Supply is up, demand is down.
That's exactly what this boomer is doing.
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Old 07-26-18, 11:12 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by delicious View Post
eBay prices on high-end vintage Campy and framesets from the more well-known builders seem stable or even higher than I recall them being over the last 5 years, with the exception of track stuff.

Summer prices always seem lower.
This is my observation as well. The really nice stuff always holds its value. In addition to Campy, the nice French parts have been pretty solid.
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Old 07-26-18, 12:13 PM
  #63  
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I'd been avoiding this one for a bit because I commented on one of the prior. Some comments in the above inspired me to chime in.

Originally Posted by noglider View Post
There seems never to be a definitive answer to this, and values seem to ebb and flow.
​​​
I agree with the ebb and flow part, but I've seen a definitive (downward) trend in my locale if looking back over a 5yr span:
  • Bikes I was selling on CL 3-4 years ago are fetching 30% less and in taking 3x-4x longer to sell at that
  • High-end components escalated in cost, especially cranksets, 40-50% in just the last 2ish years
  • Lots of mid-high end complete bikes on eBay priced with 2014-15 numbers are sitting for months at a time without selling
  • I'm seeing high-end stuff that would've sold in 2014 for $1500-$2500 sell for half that
  • It doesn't seem limited to bikes, either ... electronics seem impacted also
tl;dr - it's been a buy'ers market for the better part of 18-24 months in my area and you really need to be savvy and connected to multiple apps to pounce quickly enough.
Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
In any large city where biking is popular, the arrival of CitiBike type programs has pretty much killed the casual buyer of older equipment. Why purchase a bike and then have to lock it to a fence, deal with potential theft, upkeep, etc. when you can just stroll down the block and unlock a new-ish rental and drop it off at another convenient location- or with the new dockless bikeshare programs, just leave it where you arrive.
Originally Posted by Bikerider007 View Post
Something else that may affect lower models for the casual rider. The e-bikes and scooters that are all over most cities now. No need for someone to purchase, maintain and store a bicycle when they can just hop on one and leave it when done.
I think these are two are the most underrated comments in the thread. Now that you mention it, when the blue bikes popped up in ATL 3-4ish years ago, that's around the same time I noticed my rebuilds started selling for 30% less. Then, when the Lime and Bird scooters landed about 12 months ago, the market dumped again.
Originally Posted by oddjob2 View Post
It takes longer to sell ... No discernable pattern, but it seems prices have dropped.
Nailed it. Longer to sell at a price which would've netted a quick sale a few years ago. Selling (CL in particular) has become such a burden with tire kickers and lowballers I had to stop listing. And this brings me to another point...

There are so many digital outlets to sell now that I think it's easier to list something for sale now, which has flooded the market and ...
Originally Posted by jrbz View Post
Supply is up, demand is down.
Originally Posted by ramzilla View Post
It's probably just the plain old economic supply and demand thing.
Exactly. And like @abellanti mentioned above, most of my unique, rarer, hard to find, high-end stuff has come from sellers in the 60-80 year age range. They're moving in with family, into ALFs, or passing away. I suspect this is flooding the market, especially when the kids/relatives don't know what they're selling, they just want fast cash and for it to be gone.

I'm also seeing a lot more vintage bikes showing up at estate sales in the GA area. I was at one south of town a few weeks ago where the estate being sold belgoned to someone with a Scwhinn shop. by Nice Sannino for $400 and a virtually untouched Paramount Mixte for $800, no less than 100 NIB bikes, never even opened. Normally the org managing the estate sale has things too overpriced to make 5-10% on resale. I couldn't do anything with what they had, so I grabbed a few odds and ends and went on my way.

Last edited by francophile; 07-26-18 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 07-26-18, 12:46 PM
  #64  
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I have had a difficult time selling anything in the last 18 months. I have had inquiries without follow-up, ridiculous low ball offers, and no-show buyers after agreeing on a price; this is excluding the scammers and wackos. I live in a university town, so I could always sell a few cheap derailleur bikes or single speeds to students in the fall and spring. One thing that happened recently was that a bike share program was initiated. It is a dock-less system called Spin Bike that requires a phone payment app. The customer keys in the bike number on their phone and they have a bike until they use the app to lock it. These things are found all over town now.
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Old 07-26-18, 10:31 PM
  #65  
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For me, especially selling anything--frame or complete--at the 63cm+ size range, the market for "builders" of a 63cm+ frameset is significantly smaller than the already small market for those looking for a 63cm+ complete bike in the first place. I usually have very appreciative buyers as I sell a bike at a good price. Any more, though, it better have STIs/Ergos or it's a tougher sell. I understand. I ebb and flow in my preference for riding down tube shifting bikes or STI bikes. I'm really liking my STI-equipped bikes, but tomorrow I'm taking one of my special ones to work and back, and it's 7-speed down tube shifting with non-vice-like single pivot brakes. I miss riding it, so there you go. Perhaps I should focus on building tourers as they file into the "capability" category, which is trending right now (wider tires, bike packing, gravel, adventure biking etc.).

As always, the high end stuff continues it's high or increasing pricing. Naturally the bargain hunters and savvy among us don't jump on those ones, but that's ok, I suppose. If anything, I don't have the room to add more, and the bikes I've got are 'winners,' so I'm curtailing the demand!
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Old 07-27-18, 07:41 PM
  #66  
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Huh, found through the wacky thread, related to this one:

https://raleigh.craigslist.org/bik/d...654085535.html

Are bikes still selling on Craigslist? - $1 (Durham) hide this posting

For years I have had great success selling bikes on CL. Lately, response to my ads has fallen off to almost nothing. I get much more response from ads placed on Facebook Marketplace.

Have others had the same experience? I try to price my bikes lower than similar bikes on CL and that usually gets me a response within a day or two. Frequently within hours. Now it may be weeks and frequently no response at all.

What is your experience with CL these days?

Search specialized giant cannondale mtb roadbike seller
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Old 07-27-18, 08:36 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
In any large city where biking is popular, the arrival of CitiBike type programs has pretty much killed the casual buyer of older equipment. Why purchase a bike and then have to lock it to a fence, deal with potential theft, upkeep, etc. when you can just stroll down the block and unlock a new-ish rental and drop it off at another convenient location- or with the new dockless bikeshare programs, just leave it where you arrive.

Add to that the proliferation of early 2000-ish bikes with STI's that are available for $500 or so and that puts the dump on nicely upgraded or fully refurbished mid level vintage bikes (this used to be the segment of the market where I did most of my bike sales).

Upper end stuff, e.g. really really nice name brand Italians, remains in the $1200-1800 range depending on location and condition. I've paid the low end of that range for bikes that would otherwise be in the top end of that range over the last year or so.

But that's just my experience.
The rack-less bike rental programs I think will have an interesting trajectory. most of them have reasonably new equipment at present. Be very interesting to see how they manage equipment condition over time.
Santa Barbara California does not like the Lime scooters, they confiscated 100 of them in short order- litter, business license issues. They can sure clutter up sidewalks.
the "break things" business model will evolve into more formal staging of where to pick up and drop off. Just watch, just how long to sort out. And I do think that used bike values will take a hit for a while.
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Old 07-28-18, 09:09 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
Santa Barbara California does not like the Lime scooters, they confiscated 100 of them in short order- litter, business license issues. They can sure clutter up sidewalks.
the "break things" business model will evolve into more formal staging of where to pick up and drop off. Just watch, just how long to sort out. And I do think that used bike values will take a hit for a while.
Atlanta is in the same boat. They're starting to hold meetings about "how to manage this trend" and invoke safety practices and enforcement about where they can and cannot be ridden. We've already seen Bird starting to make adaptation with theirs. They'd been offering up a $20 bounty for "lost" scooter returns. When word got out about that in Atlanta, suddenly all of the scooters migrated to the poorest parts of town where they'd stay ... until someone collected a "found" bounty.

One of my coworkers lives next to a subsidized housing project and kept seeing 4 scooters pop up behind his condo, but looked for days unable to find them. One morning he looked UP for a change and noticed a pile of scooters tucked away on the 3rd floor balcony of someone's apartment. The resident collected them, held onto them for weeks, then was either directly turning in or having friends turn them in. Talked to the manager at the complex who was frank: This is how the kids are make money to pay for their rentals so they can get to school, grocery store, and other "normal" places they can't reach because they live in a single parent household with no car and a parent who's never home because they're working 3 jobs. .

Needless to say, Bird is supposedly updating that found scooter bounty. But I still see the damn things blocking the sidewalks, left laying around everywhere...
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Old 07-28-18, 12:45 PM
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Pretty recent here.

https://amp.azfamily.com/story/38510...dale-scrapyard
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Old 07-28-18, 01:25 PM
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Nothing compared to China.

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/20...cycles/556268/
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Old 07-28-18, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Sad, I've seen some of those pics with literally tens of thousands if not more bikes. They are getting as bad as plastic bags.
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Old 07-29-18, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Bikerider007 View Post
It really is a legit question.
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Old 07-29-18, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by cs1 View Post

It really is a legit question.
And I responded several times. I was watching to see if others had similar thoughts. While having a beer
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Old 07-29-18, 10:14 AM
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When it becomes C&V versus just someone else's junk and given the nostalgia factor which could be priceless but considering that for some it also feels good to let 'stuff' go (including the box of posts, seats, tools, gears, bolts, washers and various doodads) and use the garage for parking the cars, all figure into how much an old bike is worth. Newer isn't always better but older probably is s***ier, no? Anyone care about an old Sony Walkman?
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Old 07-29-18, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Bikerider007 View Post
And I responded several times. I was watching to see if others had similar thoughts. While having a beer
LOL, if you say so.
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