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How does an Ironman stack up?

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How does an Ironman stack up?

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Old 08-01-18, 01:27 PM
  #26  
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OP's question.

Rhetorical, right?

It is not like I've been making $hit up for all these years.
Others here have bought them and became convinced.

Owned:
Pinarello Montello
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DeRosa Professional
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Own: Serotta Atlanta

Owned:
27 Ironman bikes.

Own: 1988 Ironman

My rankings
1.00 DeRosa and Merckx (tie)
1.01 Ironman (that close, just a tick, probably for the fork)
1.02 Simoncini (on any given day, no different)

My honest opinion is I could blindfold you, put you on these with DA 2x9 downtube, all 7700 stuff, and you'd not be able to tell.

2.00 (or a quantifiable 2nd) is a significant gap away. Probably the Paramount, but it is behind that top 4 "same-same" cluster.

I just bought another Ironman, 1987.

Go figure.

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Old 08-01-18, 02:32 PM
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Cool. Then I need not look for one of those Yellow '87s and I can continue to Masterize my Miami Vice. I found this also on Sheldon Brown's site:

"The Ironman Dave Scott model name replaced Comp TA in 1985 and with the name change came indexed shifting with an upgraded Shimano "New" 600EX group. In 1987 the economy Ironman Expert Dave Scott model, with its Shimano 105 groupset, appeared and the "Master" designation was added to the original Ironman Dave Scott to distinguish it from the "Expert." The frames of both models were identical, featuring the same Tange #1 tubing, itself renamed from Champion #1 . At about this time, a TIG-welded fork crown replaced the more graceful, semi-sloped investment cast fork crowns of the Comp TA and the earlier Ironman models. My 1988 Expert weighs about 21lbs."
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Old 08-01-18, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
Cool. Then I need not look for one of those Yellow '87s and I can continue to Masterize my Miami Vice. I found this also on Sheldon Brown's site:

"The Ironman Dave Scott model name replaced Comp TA in 1985 and with the name change came indexed shifting with an upgraded Shimano "New" 600EX group. In 1987 the economy Ironman Expert Dave Scott model, with its Shimano 105 groupset, appeared and the "Master" designation was added to the original Ironman Dave Scott to distinguish it from the "Expert." The frames of both models were identical, featuring the same Tange #1 tubing, itself renamed from Champion #1 . At about this time, a TIG-welded fork crown replaced the more graceful, semi-sloped investment cast fork crowns of the Comp TA and the earlier Ironman models. My 1988 Expert weighs about 21lbs."
The guy that wrote that is a BF member A.Winthrop, a.k.a. Ashley Wright, and a great guy. He has a pair of Renee Herse and 3 Ironman bikes. He likes the I'man.

You happen to have the only year with any difference in Master vs. Expert: the Master fork is a sloped crown vs. the Expert's unicrown.

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Old 08-01-18, 02:59 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
Cool. Then I need not look for one of those Yellow '87s and I can continue to Masterize my Miami Vice. I found this also on Sheldon Brown's site:

"The Ironman Dave Scott model name replaced Comp TA in 1985 and with the name change came indexed shifting with an upgraded Shimano "New" 600EX group. In 1987 the economy Ironman Expert Dave Scott model, with its Shimano 105 groupset, appeared and the "Master" designation was added to the original Ironman Dave Scott to distinguish it from the "Expert." The frames of both models were identical, featuring the same Tange #1 tubing, itself renamed from Champion #1 . At about this time, a TIG-welded fork crown replaced the more graceful, semi-sloped investment cast fork crowns of the Comp TA and the earlier Ironman models. My 1988 Expert weighs about 21lbs."
He was almost correct with his statement, although we know now that there was some differences in the Frames from the Expert to the Master.mainly the lugs, but they were both Tange #1 .
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Old 08-01-18, 03:32 PM
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Yes the lugs and indented chain stay butttt, I honestly believe the experts weigh more. I'm hesitant to admit my opinion and may regret it but, there it IS.
Incidentally, if it weren't for the lack of FD braze on tab I would consider the Ironman "high end". But as it was pointed out to me, it makes it easier to swap in all kinds of chain ring sizes especially the current modern small chain rings.
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Old 08-01-18, 04:25 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by fleslider View Post
He was almost correct with his statement, although we know now that there was some differences in the Frames from the Expert to the Master.mainly the lugs, but they were both Tange #1 .
Yep, members of the cult have noticed differences in the shapes of the lugs, subtle but there....
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Old 08-01-18, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
Rhetorical, right?

It is not like I've been making $hit up for all these years.
Others here have bought them and became convinced.

Owned:
Pinarello Montello
Cinelli SC
DeRosa Professional
Merckx Corsa Extra
Simoncini SLX
D'Arienzo SLX
Waterford Paramount

Own: Serotta Atlanta

Owned:
27 Ironman bikes.

Own: 1988 Ironman

My rankings
1.00 DeRosa and Merckx (tie)
1.01 Ironman (that close, just a tick, probably for the fork)
1.02 Simoncini (on any given day, no different)

My honest opinion is I could blindfold you, put you on these with DA 2x9 downtube, all 7700 stuff, and you'd not be able to tell.

2.00 (or a quantifiable 2nd) is a significant gap away. Probably the Paramount, but it is behind that top 4 "same-same" cluster.

I just bought another Ironman, 1987.

Go figure.
I’m here speaking my mind too. I love how the 1988 carbon Ironman rides stiff and nimble. Super fast and sharp handling.
On the other hand the non Ironman 1989 centurion Lemans is a Tange2 and nice relaxing geometry semi-stiffer ride then my carbon. I daily my Lemans and if I could get another one before the end of the riding season. I wouldn’t hesitate at all.
I would compare the Ironman to my 85 Schwinn peloton and 85 Pinarello Montello.
These few months a Ironman owner has made me realize that centurion has put a lot of heart and souls into building these masterpieces. Enough said let’s ride the hell out of these Ironman.
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Old 08-01-18, 10:53 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by TXsailor View Post
...I'm not man enough to climb some of the hills around here with that 42/24.
Yeah, I had to replace my Expert's 42T chainring with a Vuelta SE Plus 39T. Excellent and cost only $7 via Amazon Warehouse deal -- they said the packaging was damaged. It was just a folded cardboard peg hanger with a baggie holding the chainring. I think the cardboard was scuffed. Saved about 66% off the usual price. Still worthwhile at full price.

Huge difference in climbing our North Central Texas rollers and mostly short steep climbs. I can handle them with the stock 13-24 freewheel, especially now that my conditioning has improved since last summer.

Also the SunRace 13-25 freewheel is a good replacement for the original 13-24 Suntour or Shimano. Combined with a 39T smaller chainring that's just enough difference to make those climbs tolerable. And the SunRace shifted more smoothly than the Suntour.

Only reason I'm not using the 13-25 SunRace freewheel on the Ironman at the moment is because I needed it on my Globe Carmel to replace a funky Shimano MegaRange 14-36 that was misbehaving. I plan to get a 13-28 SunRace for the Globe and try the 13-25 on the Ironman again.
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Old 08-02-18, 08:17 AM
  #34  
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A high end frame is a high end frame, no matter the country/area of origin. The IMs were high end frames for their time. The idea/concept was a competitive all day racer at an affordable price. It was executed to perfection. Hence, the legendary status. Similar concept to the modern day Corvette.

I noticed the OP is from Bowie, TX and canklecat is talking about North Central TX rollers. Would that be north of the Metroplex as well? I grew up in the Wichita Falls, TX area. When my older brother was starting High School, the parents moved us out of WF to the boonies south of Henrietta. Bluegrove, to be exact. 30 miles from nowhere! I am 53 years old. In High School, a buddy and I used to occasionally date these sisters in Bowie. Dark hair and complexions. Smoking hot! I think they were Greek. Greek, Italian, whatever, they sure were pretty.

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Old 08-03-18, 01:33 AM
  #35  
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I noticed the OP is from Bowie, TX and canklecat is talking about North Central TX rollers. Would that be north of the Metroplex as well? I grew up in the Wichita Falls, TX area. When my older brother was starting High School, the parents moved us out of WF to the boonies south of Henrietta. Bluegrove, to be exact. 30 miles from nowhere! I am 53 years old. In High School, a buddy and I used to occasionally date these sisters in Bowie. Dark hair and complexions. Smoking hot! I think they were Greek. Greek, Italian, whatever, they sure were pretty.[/QUOTE]
I too wondered where Canklecat hails from. I am very familiar with Bluegrove. About 10 years ago a moron from Bowie kidnapped and murdered a girl from there. My neighbor was a Bowie cop and arrested the guy. I think he got life
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Old 08-03-18, 03:51 AM
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Yes, the Ironman stacks up.

Until you go to buy one. Then you can get 3 or 4 for the price of the "others."

In Texas or anywhere else, it appears.
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Old 08-03-18, 04:09 AM
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Yup, I'm from Foat Wuth. Good town for cyclists. I'm on the west side and mostly ride west toward the general region around Weatherford. While I'm recovering from injuries I'm mostly riding laps around a nearby access road 5 mile long loop that perfectly emulates our typical roller coaster terrain, and I only need to ride a couple of miles to reach it.
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Old 08-03-18, 05:05 AM
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How does the Ironman stack up? I'd say about 4 to 1. For what I paid for my four I could have maybe one european. As frugal as I am that's not the reason I've got four. I could have stopped at my initial '86 and and been/be a happy content camper. But having four allows Me to wait to fix a flat and if one thing is good four IS better. The fact is I started off as a a triathlete. Not a cyclist, not a runner or swimmer for that matter. And when I started in 85, 86 Dave Scott was the man and literally called "The Man". But still not my reasons. They go beyond that.
1. The colors and components from that era were and are very good and durable.
2. The ride is quick yet stable, I call it the Ironman conundrum.
3. I absolutely love the international flair:
(A) Italian geometry (my favorite)
(B) Japanese technology (QC was best at the time).
(C) American Icon (Dave Scott, or Ironman logo).
4. What's not to like?
@canklecat I'm from Central Texas, 100 miles south of Dallas and 100 miles north of Austin. You, me and @jim dandy (Dallas) should get a ride together. The Texas chapter of Centurion Ironman bikes. Of course we'd have the biggest chapter. I think @fleslider has a brother here too, surely fleslider can let him borrow one of his as he has the biggest Ironman collection in the country.
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Old 08-03-18, 10:59 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by texaspandj View Post
How does the Ironman stack up? I'd say about 4 to 1. For what I paid for my four I could have maybe one european. As frugal as I am that's not the reason I've got four. I could have stopped at my initial '86 and and been/be a happy content camper. But having four allows Me to wait to fix a flat and if one thing is good four IS better. The fact is I started off as a a triathlete. Not a cyclist, not a runner or swimmer for that matter. And when I started in 85, 86 Dave Scott was the man and literally called "The Man". But still not my reasons. They go beyond that.
1. The colors and components from that era were and are very good and durable.
2. The ride is quick yet stable, I call it the Ironman conundrum.
3. I absolutely love the international flair:
(A) Italian geometry (my favorite)
(B) Japanese technology (QC was best at the time).
(C) American Icon (Dave Scott, or Ironman logo).
4. What's not to like?
@canklecat I'm from Central Texas, 100 miles south of Dallas and 100 miles north of Austin. You, me and @jim dandy (Dallas) should get a ride together. The Texas chapter of Centurion Ironman bikes. Of course we'd have the biggest chapter. I think @fleslider has a brother here too, surely fleslider can let him borrow one of his as he has the biggest Ironman collection in the country.
I had a step brother that lived in Texas, he is in the service and is now no longer in TX, SO i would just have to go down there, to meet up with everyone. I only have 5 Ironman's and two other Centurion a 1977 Pro-Tour and a 1988 Accordo.
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Old 08-03-18, 03:33 PM
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The take about the generally superior quality of most Japanese bikes were in the 80's, compared to Euro bikes, was very true..... the Fuji brand bikes impressed me especially, as they were a high volume maker and they still had very high QA/QC standards.
I still remember very well, back in the 80's, closely examining many Japanese bikes of all model levels and being amazed how close to perfect their framesets were. And so consistent too, from one bike to the next one on the dealer floors. That was topped by the also jewel-like quality of the mid to higher line Japanese components mounted on them.
I would venture to say that even low to mid market bike companies like Kabuki and zee Takara was much better at QA/QC than giant, long established Euro bike companies like Peugeot and Motobecane back then.
Unfortunately, due to long held perception that anything from Asia was generally of inferior quality, compared to what was being produced in Europe and the US, the Japanese, and eventually, the Taiwanese bike makers, never got the praise that they deserved.....
Even today, that perception continues, as Japanese and Taiwanese C&V bikes from the 80's are generally still consistently price quite a bit lower than their Euro equivalents.....
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Old 08-03-18, 04:49 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by texaspandj View Post
If you're gonna get another Ironman frame to upgrade then I would suggest getting a Master.
Why
edit: Nevermind
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Old 08-03-18, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by seedsbelize View Post
Why
edit: Nevermind
Doesn't matter, Jerry. The hunt is on.
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Old 08-03-18, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by texaspandj View Post
@canklecat I'm from Central Texas, 100 miles south of Dallas and 100 miles north of Austin. You, me and @jim dandy (Dallas) should get a ride together. The Texas chapter of Centurion Ironman bikes. Of course we'd have the biggest chapter. I think @fleslider has a brother here too, surely fleslider can let him borrow one of his as he has the biggest Ironman collection in the country.
I approve of this plan. After my shoulder heals and I get some other health stuff taken care of I may be in shape to roll down thataway and visit. I'm hoping to be able to tackle a full century ride again by this autumn (I don't like to describe that season as "fall" in bike conversations ).
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Old 08-03-18, 09:02 PM
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Texaspandj ...

Originally Posted by texaspandj View Post
How does the Ironman stack up? I'd say about 4 to 1. For what I paid for my four I could have maybe one european. As frugal as I am that's not the reason I've got four. I could have stopped at my initial '86 and and been/be a happy content camper. But having four allows Me to wait to fix a flat and if one thing is good four IS better. The fact is I started off as a a triathlete. Not a cyclist, not a runner or swimmer for that matter. And when I started in 85, 86 Dave Scott was the man and literally called "The Man". But still not my reasons. They go beyond that.
1. The colors and components from that era were and are very good and durable.
2. The ride is quick yet stable, I call it the Ironman conundrum.
3. I absolutely love the international flair:
(A) Italian geometry (my favorite)
(B) Japanese technology (QC was best at the time).
(C) American Icon (Dave Scott, or Ironman logo).
4. What's not to like?
@canklecat I'm from Central Texas, 100 miles south of Dallas and 100 miles north of Austin. You, me and @jim dandy (Dallas) should get a ride together. The Texas chapter of Centurion Ironman bikes. Of course we'd have the biggest chapter. I think @fleslider has a brother here too, surely fleslider can let him borrow one of his as he has the biggest Ironman collection in the country.
t
Tex ...
As far as a Ironman Ride, next year, im going to celebrate my 75th. birthday by doing a 100k Hotter-N-Hell ride so I can wear the jersey. The event SB about halfway between us ... I'm not very fast, but can do 62 miles on a good day.
Sooo,
Something to think about.
JD , Dallas
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Old 08-03-18, 09:24 PM
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If you decide to do HNH, you need to start making your plans and securing you lodging as soon as the event is over this year. My brother is a FF/EMT in WF. He has to work somewhere on the route every year. If you commit to doing it, he can be a good contact for local info.
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Old 08-04-18, 01:17 AM
  #46  
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Ironmen at the Hotter'n Hell! I like it. I ride some distance of it every year. My daughter and granddaughter did 50 with me last year. We are thinking about 100 this year. I am probably not ready to do 100 on a bike what gets me as low as a ironman does but I can work on between now and 2019.
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Old 08-04-18, 06:51 AM
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Might be fun to get a whole load of Ironmen for next year's HnH. Robbie, Seypat, the whole gang. I'd be up for that!
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Old 08-04-18, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
Might be fun to get a whole load of Ironmen for next year's HnH. Robbie, Seypat, the whole gang. I'd be up for that!
13000 riders. That is a drab, desolate route through the wasteland that is the TX/OK border. Think of the Mad Max movies. I'm not kidding, that is what the route and the landscape looks like. The temps hit 112 there a couple of days last week. Strong tailwinds and headwinds. If you wanna get baked in the sun and blast furnace winds, that is the ride for you. Just saying. I do have to make a visit there sometime however, so I might be up for it. Might be able to talk my 2 brothers into doing some of the route as well. Neither are cyclists at the moment. Think about it for a month or two. If people are serious about it, we can probably plan a shindig like Robbie and his family do at The Dare. Throw a fish fry, or smoke something. Heck, cook some calf fries so the city folk can eat some real exotic meat! Here is the website:

https://www.hh100.org/

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Old 08-04-18, 08:36 AM
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If you have some time to kill and are looking for a flick to watch, here is a timeless classic set in the Wichita Falls area. You get to see Cybill Sheperd in her birthday suit! Win win. I think the whole movie is on Youtube. That is the the type of landscape the HNH route takes.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0067328/
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Old 08-04-18, 09:44 AM
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Bikes: '86 , '87 , '88 , '89 Centurion Dave Scott Ironman.

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I've never ridden HnH. But definitely up for it to get a chance to meet Ya'll.
I remember being on club rides and riders talking about it back in '88. It's in August so it might be ....Ok it'll be HOT.
I'd heed seypats words as he's a HnH veteran and familiar with the area. But I guess if it don't kill ya.
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