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New Schwinn Passage Frame With Issues

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New Schwinn Passage Frame With Issues

Old 08-09-18, 07:29 AM
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New Schwinn Passage Frame With Issues

I picked up this Passage frameset from a guy for a pretty good deal.

$40 got me the frame, fork, headset, bottom bracket, shifters (Huret retrofrictions!), seatpost, brakes with all hardware, and a front derailleur. All in rough-but-salvageable condition. Nothing a bit of polish and Evaporust can't take care of.

Heading out to pick it up, I knew that there might be some issues with this frame, but I figured even if it's toast $40 was a pretty great price for all the components hanging off of it, especially the Huret shifters!

The seller was very up front about the fork being bent. However, this is a type of bend that I'm a little confused about how exactly it happened. It appears that the left leg has been bent forward by about 1/2" at the dropout, and there is a definite bulge in the fork blade about 1 1/2" below the crown. I'm not planning on trying to straighten it, as far as I'm concerned its a lost cause already because of the bulge.

Given this damage to the fork, I'm now looking at the frame with much more scrutiny, and I'm seeing a few things that I've never seen before. There are lots of little hairlines all around the head tube area, but I can't figure out whether this is just rust underneath the paint or a symptom of something much more serious. All the frame tubes are straight with no obvious bulges like the fork has, and I guess I won't really know what is going on for sure unless I strip the frame of paint from the problem areas and take a look.

What do you think, C&V? Is this getting hacked up into my new shop stool, or is it a viable rider?



Frame. Paint is solidly in the "Looks good from 15 feet" category



Bent fork



The bulge



Hairlines


Hairlines



Hairlines



Seller said he thinks this was from pump clamp.

Last edited by abshipp; 08-09-18 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 08-09-18, 08:12 AM
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No damage to the other fork blade? If so, then the left blade got tweaked, possibly with the front wheel off. Either it hit something or something hit it. Depending on the hit, could have gone through the frame with resultant hairline damage.

My first guess would be roof-rack vs. top of garage door collision, but the fork would be bent backward and not like this, so I'm a bit curious myself. I think you're right to suspect it's not going to be rideable.
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Old 08-09-18, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by bargainguy View Post
No damage to the other fork blade? If so, then the left blade got tweaked, possibly with the front wheel off. Either it hit something or something hit it. Depending on the hit, could have gone through the frame with resultant hairline damage.

My first guess would be roof-rack vs. top of garage door collision, but the fork would be bent backward and not like this, so I'm a bit curious myself. I think you're right to suspect it's not going to be rideable.
No damage to the other fork blade. The biggest question, as you said, is how it happened.

I would like to think that because the damage is only to one fork blade that the frame may have been spared just because force seems to have only been applied to one relatively flexible piece of tubing, but I do tend to be an optimist until reality slaps me in the face

Regarding a roof rack - garage door situation, it would be possible for the fork to be bent forwards if the front wheel was attached to the rack, bike facing forward and car moving forward, and the bike hit the garage door at the handlebars or anywhere at the fork crown or higher. That would push the frame back, bending the fork forwards.

I will try and strip the head tube area this weekend and see what I can see.
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Old 08-09-18, 09:14 AM
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Please not a shop stool
Definitely worth deeper inspection and a nice build if no other issues than the fork.
Even though I've gone to the dark side with a cf bike as my primary ride I still love taking my Passage out regularly.
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Old 08-09-18, 09:22 AM
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Its steel, straighten and align was common BID, can still have a useful life. don
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Old 08-09-18, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Rotten View Post
Please not a shop stool
Definitely worth deeper inspection and a nice build if no other issues than the fork.
Even though I've gone to the dark side with a cf bike as my primary ride I still love taking my Passage out regularly.
That's the absolute last option! Don't worry! This frame has some really great geometry for me, so I would love to ride it!

72.5° STA and 57ishCM top tube is right up my alley!

And those lugs are some of the prettiest Schwinn ever used!

Originally Posted by ollo_ollo View Post
Its steel, straighten and align was common BID, can still have a useful life. don
Even with forks? I know that steel typically bends instead of breaks, but still, I'd be more than a little nervous about riding that fork.
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Old 08-09-18, 09:47 AM
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Crack concerns? Take it to a machine or welding shop for magnaflux test. Otherwise, nice frame.
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Old 08-09-18, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by abshipp View Post
Even with forks? I know that steel typically bends instead of breaks, but still, I'd be more than a little nervous about riding that fork.
I am no metallurgist but something to keep in mind is that even though the frame is Tenax the fork is Tange Hi-Tensile so maybe a better candidate for straighten as best as possible and ride.
The Voyageur had the better/lighter Tange Crome-moly fork.
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Old 08-09-18, 10:25 AM
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Two things- the downtube looks bent/bulged just south of the lug- to me.

2nd thing- the Sachs/Huret shifters are ratcheting shifters, not Retrofriction. There is no ratcheting in Retrofriction shifters. It is a specific, clutched action that only a very few shifter models. The Huret and Sachs/Huret shifters do have a buttery smooth ratcheting action, but it is not Retrofriction.
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Old 08-09-18, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Rotten View Post
I am no metallurgist but something to keep in mind is that even though the frame is Tenax the fork is Tange Hi-Tensile so maybe a better candidate for straighten as best as possible and ride.
The Voyageur had the better/lighter Tange Crome-moly fork.
Quite possible. Hi-Ten should be more ductile than a higher-strength steel.

Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
Two things- the downtube looks bent/bulged just south of the lug- to me.

2nd thing- the Sachs/Huret shifters are ratcheting shifters, not Retrofriction. There is no ratcheting in Retrofriction shifters. It is a specific, clutched action that only a very few shifter models. The Huret and Sachs/Huret shifters do have a buttery smooth ratcheting action, but it is not Retrofriction.
I saw what I think you see as well concerning the downtube in the pictures. I can't tell whether it's just a funky camera artifact or a bent tube. I will try and verify with a straight edge.

Good to know about the racheting/Retrofriction distinction! I always assumed that Retrofriction basically meant any shifter with a spring to ease the lever throw.

Maybe this, if anything, would be a good winter bike path bike? I had dreams of a pseudo-cyclocross/gravel bike with knobby tires, but if this bike gets ridden it needs to be ridden gently.
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Old 08-09-18, 11:43 AM
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Those Passages are great bikes. I had one that I fully French-ified, and really loved the ride. Hard to say without seeing it in person, but those "cracks" in the paint near the head tube look a lot like villiform corrosion -- i.e. rust spiders you see under powder coat. Means the paint is shot, but nothing of any concern structurally. A good waxing should seal things up, and prevent it from getting much worse. I agree with the others that you should be able to straighten that fork leg. That really isn't too excessive of a bend -- just make sure you don't crimp or damage anything else in the process.

If you don't want to go that route, I do have a green Voyageur fork I picked up a few years ago that I don't have any plans for. I'd be willing to let it go pretty cheap. (It has a 180mm steerer tube -- maybe not quite long enough for your frame)

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Old 08-09-18, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by cdmurphy View Post
Those Passages are great bikes. I had one that I fully French-ified, and really loved the ride. Hard to say without seeing it in person, but those "cracks" in the paint near the head tube look a lot like villiform corrosion -- i.e. rust spiders you see under powder coat. Means the paint is shot, but nothing of any concern structurally. A good waxing should seal things up, and prevent it from getting much worse. I agree with the others that you should be able to straighten that fork leg. That really isn't too excessive of a bend -- just make sure you don't crimp or damage anything else in the process.

If you don't want to go that route, I do have a green Voyageur fork I picked up a few years ago that I don't have any plans for. I'd be willing to let it go pretty cheap. (It has a 180mm steerer tube -- maybe not quite long enough for your frame)

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Old 08-09-18, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by cdmurphy View Post
Those Passages are great bikes. I had one that I fully French-ified, and really loved the ride. Hard to say without seeing it in person, but those "cracks" in the paint near the head tube look a lot like villiform corrosion -- i.e. rust spiders you see under powder coat. Means the paint is shot, but nothing of any concern structurally. A good waxing should seal things up, and prevent it from getting much worse. I agree with the others that you should be able to straighten that fork leg. That really isn't too excessive of a bend -- just make sure you don't crimp or damage anything else in the process.

If you don't want to go that route, I do have a green Voyageur fork I picked up a few years ago that I don't have any plans for. I'd be willing to let it go pretty cheap. (It has a 180mm steerer tube -- maybe not quite long enough for your frame)
I actually sold my first Passage to @Rotten as it was too small. Trust me, I wan't to get this on the road really bad.

I'm thinking a replacement fork is the absolute safest way to go. Unfortunately this is a big old frame so I need a 9.5" steer tube. Thank you for the offer however. Ironically, there was a green Voyager fork with the correct size steer tube on eBay a month or so ago that I passed on because I couldn't see any potential use for it

My options for replacements aren't really all that great. I can spend a decent amount for a Surly Cross Check fork and a threadless headset, or I can go the cheap route with a unicrown Sunlite fork. I would feel weird putting a unicrown on here, but maybe I could convince myself that its only temporary until I find a suitable replacement

That two tone is so classy
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Old 08-09-18, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by abshipp View Post
Even with forks? I know that steel typically bends instead of breaks, but still, I'd be more than a little nervous about riding that fork.

A replacement fork is best solution, but not necessary. Here are before/after pics of 2 personal examples:

Zeus was repaired by Bill Stevenson of Olympia, WA. It had frame/fork damage cracked paint above & below on top tube and down tube at the head tube junction with a slight ripple that disappeared after repair, fork required straightened & aligned. Frame plus Front & rear dropouts were also aligned. My son has been riding it for 11 years now with no problems.

Peugeot PKN-10 was repaired this January at Atelier Gugi. Paint job may be debatable, but gratitude beer was worthwhile. I believe the ride is better now than with the factory geometry. Don
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Old 08-09-18, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by abshipp View Post

I saw what I think you see as well concerning the downtube in the pictures. I can't tell whether it's just a funky camera artifact or a bent tube. I will try and verify with a straight edge.

Good to know about the racheting/Retrofriction distinction! I always assumed that Retrofriction basically meant any shifter with a spring to ease the lever throw.
It could just be the shadows and/or digital weirdness. I read things about a bend there and see all the "the frame is toast" posts- and I don't know if that's a real safety thing, a "tracking" thing or if it's just someone being "that guy."

The Retrofriction thing is something that you don't get until you've used 'em. Simplex were the ones to develop it- I think people who haven't experienced it know that it's different from pure friction shifters- and ratcheting is different so ratcheting must be Retrofriction. What gets more confusing is that most every friction shifter is labeled as "retrofriction" on VeloBase. The Shimano spring loaded levers are "similar" to Retrofriction- it's smooth with not clicks or ratchets- but they're not clutched like the Retrofrictions- I think the spring just counters the derailleur spring- but it is smooth like that. The original Suntour ratcheting Power shifters have the standard ratcheting action- Suntour developed a more finely toothed ratcheting system around 1985 or so, most commonly seen on the Sprint group shifters- that's the ratcheting that the Rivendell/Silver/DiaCompe ENE shifters are based on. The Sachs/Huret ratcheting is as smooth, but not as fine toothed as the Sprint shifters.
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Old 08-09-18, 04:08 PM
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Frame looks nice. The veins are just the paint slowly going to junk.


funny timing on mentioning making it a stool as i told my kids about 10 min ago that I want to make a bike stool with them out of a junked frame. They can go crazy with the spray paints.
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Old 08-10-18, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ollo_ollo View Post
A replacement fork is best solution, but not necessary. Here are before/after pics of 2 personal examples:

Zeus was repaired by Bill Stevenson of Olympia, WA. It had frame/fork damage cracked paint above & below on top tube and down tube at the head tube junction with a slight ripple that disappeared after repair, fork required straightened & aligned. Frame plus Front & rear dropouts were also aligned. My son has been riding it for 11 years now with no problems.

Peugeot PKN-10 was repaired this January at Atelier Gugi. Paint job may be debatable, but gratitude beer was worthwhile. I believe the ride is better now than with the factory geometry. Don
Wow. That is some really impressive repair work! Nice to see them brought back from the brink.

I happen to really like that Peugeot paint as well.

Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
It could just be the shadows and/or digital weirdness. I read things about a bend there and see all the "the frame is toast" posts- and I don't know if that's a real safety thing, a "tracking" thing or if it's just someone being "that guy."

The Retrofriction thing is something that you don't get until you've used 'em. Simplex were the ones to develop it- I think people who haven't experienced it know that it's different from pure friction shifters- and ratcheting is different so ratcheting must be Retrofriction. What gets more confusing is that most every friction shifter is labeled as "retrofriction" on VeloBase. The Shimano spring loaded levers are "similar" to Retrofriction- it's smooth with not clicks or ratchets- but they're not clutched like the Retrofrictions- I think the spring just counters the derailleur spring- but it is smooth like that. The original Suntour ratcheting Power shifters have the standard ratcheting action- Suntour developed a more finely toothed ratcheting system around 1985 or so, most commonly seen on the Sprint group shifters- that's the ratcheting that the Rivendell/Silver/DiaCompe ENE shifters are based on. The Sachs/Huret ratcheting is as smooth, but not as fine toothed as the Sprint shifters.
Interesting, the incorrect information on Velobase and the like very likely swayed my thinking. I'd certainly like to try a real retrofriction sometime, considering how much I like the Huret rachets, Barcon rachets, and the old spring loaded Shimano shifters. Although the rachets in the Hurets and Barcons give a nice tactile feedback that makes things easy.

Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Frame looks nice. The veins are just the paint slowly going to junk.
funny timing on mentioning making it a stool as i told my kids about 10 min ago that I want to make a bike stool with them out of a junked frame. They can go crazy with the spray paints.
Looks like this one is safe from becoming a stool!

-----------------

So last night I put a straight edge against the top and down tubes all around the circumference, and it's straight as an arrow with no bulges

Now I just need to decide what to do about the fork. I'll be keeping my eyes open for either a direct replacement (another Passage or Voyager fork) or maybe doing something a little different. Surly has 1" threadless cantilever forks available for their Cross Check that I think would work really well for this bike. They are 700c forks with mid-blade and dropout eyelets for fenders and low-rider racks, and even though they are black I think that would be the best option for this bike. The frame will likely be refinished eventually. Or if I can find a 1" disc fork I wouldn't have much of a problem throwing that on. I've already got a touring bike as well as a couple of vintage bikes with all original components, so I'm thinking of doing something a little weird with this, maybe a pseudo cyclocross setup with 32c knobbies? Maybe a singlespeed?

Who knows, it's going to be a slow build, however.
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Old 08-10-18, 10:35 AM
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FYI SOMA also sells a 'cyclocross' fork that should work. It also has 1" threadless steer tube. Looks retro and it's chromed. Bike is not toast. Yay. All you need is a new fork, or a new used fork.

The 'veins' are often called rust spiders. Generally it's just a cosmetic thing, and I wouldn't worry about it. They are often seen around the top tube and head tube because they are at least partly caused by sweat.
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Old 08-10-18, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
FYI SOMA also sells a 'cyclocross' fork that should work. It also has 1" threadless steer tube. Looks retro and it's chromed. Bike is not toast. Yay. All you need is a new fork, or a new used fork.

The 'veins' are often called rust spiders. Generally it's just a cosmetic thing, and I wouldn't worry about it. They are often seen around the top tube and head tube because they are at least partly caused by sweat.
I love that Soma fork, but at $160 it's just a little too steep for me right now. I'm planning on this being a bit of a winter beater for now until I can really do things right, maybe at that time I'll spring for the nice shiny Soma.
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Old 08-10-18, 09:18 PM
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Wow, two threads today mentioning Schwinn Passage bikes.

I'm really enjoying the one I picked up about 9 or 10 months ago.

I changed quite a bit on mine including the cockpit to upright bars.

The Sachs Huret down tube shifters were so cool looking I mounted them on Paul Thumbies.

It is a terrific riding bike.

I hope you get the issues with yours resolved satisfactorily.
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Old 08-11-18, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by abshipp View Post
...
My options for replacements aren't really all that great. I can spend a decent amount for a Surly Cross Check fork and a threadless headset, or I can go the cheap route with a unicrown Sunlite fork. I would feel weird putting a unicrown on here, but maybe I could convince myself that its only temporary until I find a suitable replacement
...
I'd go with a nice carbon fork before any of those choices. That would mean a conversion to 700c, but that's just icing on the cake. Been awhile since I shopped, but I picked my CF canti 700c fork on eBay or Nashbar for $70 or $80, shipped.
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Old 08-11-18, 07:17 AM
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@abshipp - Definitely rust spiders and not cracks. I have two bike frames with the same and stripped both. Glad I did.

P1010140, on Flickr
Wire wheel and steel wool:

P1010141, on Flickr

Front fork damage could be from stuck seat post. Some insert a 2x4 or other leaver on the forks to twist the stem. The fork gives first. I found a Bianchi frame that I almost bought with impressions on the front of one leg and the back of another that looked like the edges of a 2x4. Pretty Celeste color too.
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Old 08-13-18, 09:25 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by cooperryder View Post
Wow, two threads today mentioning Schwinn Passage bikes.

I'm really enjoying the one I picked up about 9 or 10 months ago.

I changed quite a bit on mine including the cockpit to upright bars.

The Sachs Huret down tube shifters were so cool looking I mounted them on Paul Thumbies.

It is a terrific riding bike.

I hope you get the issues with yours resolved satisfactorily.
Nice! The Hurets look nice on the handlebars!

Originally Posted by Lascauxcaveman View Post
I'd go with a nice carbon fork before any of those choices. That would mean a conversion to 700c, but that's just icing on the cake. Been awhile since I shopped, but I picked my CF canti 700c fork on eBay or Nashbar for $70 or $80, shipped.
I've been thinking about a carbon fork, actually. Unfortunately the 1" Nashbar carbon canti fork is running about $160 nowadays...Actually, more like $115. But the 1" is nowhere to be found in stock...

Originally Posted by SJX426 View Post
@abshipp - Definitely rust spiders and not cracks. I have two bike frames with the same and stripped both. Glad I did.

Front fork damage could be from stuck seat post. Some insert a 2x4 or other leaver on the forks to twist the stem. The fork gives first. I found a Bianchi frame that I almost bought with impressions on the front of one leg and the back of another that looked like the edges of a 2x4. Pretty Celeste color too.
Interestingly, that is how I ended up straightening it. I clamped the crown into a vise, took a round 1" dowel and tweaked the blades back into (relative) alignment. A wheel slides into the dropouts nicely now and appears to be centered in the fork

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Old 08-13-18, 09:32 AM
  #24  
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"Interestingly, that is how I ended up straightening it. I clamped the crown into a vise, took a round 1" dowel and tweaked the blades back into (relative) alignment. A wheel slides into the dropouts nicely now and appears to be centered in the fork"

Good to go in my book! Enjoy riding it & post lots of pics for our enjoyment. Don
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Old 08-13-18, 01:07 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by cooperryder View Post



I changed quite a bit on mine including the cockpit to upright bars.

The Sachs Huret down tube shifters were so cool looking I mounted them on Paul Thumbies.
Originally Posted by abshipp View Post
Nice! The Hurets look nice on the handlebars!
I really dig those Sachs/Huret shifters on the Paul mounts!!!
@abshipp did you see if that downtube is bent/damaged?
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