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Help me choose a stem?
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8d1bf1709.jpeg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...710fcb4a2.jpeg Help me choose a stem? This is my mid 80s Raleigh Marathon. The factory 95mm stem had me a little cramped so I replaced it with a cheap 130mm from eBay. I thought it looked OK in the photos and liked the idea of the removable face plate bar clamp. Installed, it’s klunky and vibrates a ton and I get some weird wobble at higher speeds occasionally, and it also doesn’t look very good on the bike. I think I also 115-125mm is going to be closer to ideal on the reach. It seems like quill stems in that length are starting to become harder to find but I prefer the traditional look, at least for this bike. On the other hand, I really do like the removable face plate and the idea of being able to flip my stem or change it without having to deal with wrapping bars has me considering a quill/threadless adapter. This is a commuter, and I want to spend about $30 on a stem or maybe $50 total for a conversion. A Nitto Technomic would fall right in between on price but I’m not looking for height and am ignorant as to what setting a really tall stem way down in the head tube might do? Any ideas? Feeling stuck. It’s a lot of fuss maybe for such a humble object but I spend a lot of time on it. |
I would go with a classic 3ttt. What diameter are your bars? Removable faceplates are handy, but once you nail your setup, so shouldn't have to mess with it. |
The stem may not be causing the wobble but making it more noticeable. When was the last time you overhauled the front hub? Had the wheel trued? Is the tore mounted straight and not deformed?
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As far as your wobble, I agree with Bgirl, make sure everything in your front end is correct. As far as stem design, there’s nothing wrong with that part, and at least in the past it was available in a wide range of extensions. You have to keep looking. Your saddle is for me a lot higher than the bars which suggests a frame too small. |
Originally Posted by Road Fan
(Post 20501859)
Your saddle is for me a lot higher than the bars which suggests a frame too small. |
Originally Posted by Phamilton
(Post 20501660)
A Nitto Technomic would fall right in between on price but I’m not looking for height and am ignorant as to what setting a really tall stem way down in the head tube might do? FYI Nitto also makes normal height stems for about $40. Clearly you don't need the extra tall Technomic. Nitto has one that's 25.4 and one that's 26.0. Probably it's 26.0mm. There's also the Soma Sutro which I think sells for around the same price. Lastly I'm sure you could buy a good used 3TTT or something off ebay. |
Originally Posted by Road Fan
(Post 20501859)
As far as your wobble, I agree with Bgirl, make sure everything in your front end is correct. As far as stem design, there’s nothing wrong with that part, and at least in the past it was available in a wide range of extensions. You have to keep looking. Your saddle is for me a lot higher than the bars which suggests a frame too small. But I like to talk bike fit, lay it on me - what frame size and bar drop do you recommend for me? I’m 6’, 34” inseam, 180lbs. What else do you want to know? |
Your setup is fine. I would second the recommenations of the "regular" Nitto stems. Sometimes you can find ones branded "Specialized" for cheep. I have one in 130mm that I've used for 25 years. |
Originally Posted by Salamandrine
(Post 20502034)
FYI Nitto also makes normal height stems for about $40. Clearly you don't need the extra tall Technomic. Nitto has one that's 25.4 and one that's 26.0. Probably it's 26.0mm. There's also the Soma Sutro which I think sells for around the same price. Lastly I'm sure you could buy a good used 3TTT or something off ebay.
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Originally Posted by thinktubes
(Post 20502297)
Your setup is fine. I would second the recommenations of the "regular" Nitto stems. Sometimes you can find ones branded "Specialized" for cheep. I have one in 130mm that I've used for 25 years. |
For all: I have 25.4 bars and 26mm bars w/o preference toward one or the other. |
Originally Posted by Phamilton
(Post 20502267)
It doesn’t bother me that my bars are too low for you. But I like to talk bike fit, lay it on me - what frame size and bar drop do you recommend for me? I’m 6’, 34” inseam, 180lbs. What else do you want to know? Re your frame, the simple LeMond formula is size=0.65*inseam. For you size is 22 inches. But there are a lot of other ways to look at size, as well. I don't have any recommendations for bar drop. If you like what you got, good for you. But consider that it might, combined with the longer reach of your new stem, have something to do with your wobble. |
Originally Posted by Bianchigirll
(Post 20501835)
The stem may not be causing the wobble but making it more noticeable. When was the last time you overhauled the front hub? Had the wheel trued? Is the tore mounted straight and not deformed?
Are we neighbors? You’ve been on BF for a long time but I don’t remember seeing your location as FW. |
Originally Posted by Road Fan
(Post 20502385)
I think you are misreading me, I'm not talking about what I like to ride, and I honestly don't care what you like to ride, nor how you like to be fit. I am trying to be helpful regarding wobble and the use of that built-up aluminum stem you have (last time I saw those for sale they were branded Profile Design). Nobody really knows the full story about what causes wobble, so it makes sense to me to look at a lot of things.
Re your frame, the simple LeMond formula is size=0.65*inseam. For you size is 22 inches. But there are a lot of other ways to look at size, as well. I don't have any recommendations for bar drop. If you like what you got, good for you. But consider that it might, combined with the longer reach of your new stem, have something to do with your wobble. TBH I’ve never ridden a stem longer than 100mm so I can’t say that’s not what is causing the wobble. When I have made and installed my selection I will report back with the handling characteristics. Ive never heard of wobble correlated with stem length. Edit: just remembered I used LeMond’s method for my saddle height, inseam x .883. 30” on the nose. It ended up being 3/4” lower than I had it and it took me about 3 weeks to get used to it but I have never felt so comfortable in the saddle.For me, saddle height was the #1 source of discomfort and pain. Setback a close 2nd. Edit 2: I wish I knew what LeMond would recommend for stem length. I’m guessing if he puts me on a 56cm frame and I’m currently on a 57, probably right around where I have it currently with the 130, but feeling like a 120 would be just perfect. Man, that’s weird. |
Originally Posted by TenGrainBread
(Post 20502007)
The saddle height is fine. The stem is almost slammed. Also, some people prefer some drop.
Originally Posted by Phamilton
(Post 20502408)
OK thanks. This particular frame was sold nominally as a 23” and measures 58cm seat tube and 57cm top tube, so I actually should go smaller then? TBH I’ve never ridden a stem longer than 100mm so I can’t say that’s not what is causing the wobble. When I have made and installed my selection I will report back with the handling characteristics. Ive never heard of wobble correlated with stem length. Edit: just remembered I used LeMond’s method for my saddle height, inseam x .883. 30” on the nose. It ended up being 3/4” lower than I had it and it took me about 3 weeks to get used to it but I have never felt so comfortable in the saddle.For me, saddle height was the #1 source of discomfort and pain. Setback a close 2nd. Edit 2: I wish I knew what LeMond would recommend for stem length. I’m guessing if he puts me on a 56cm frame and I’m currently on a 57, probably right around where I have it currently with the 130, but feeling like a 120 would be just perfect. Man, that’s weird. I think if I can even ride a bike at my age and condition that Greg LeMond would fit me to, I can live with that if it means getting a 120mm stem. Now, which one to choose? |
Originally Posted by Phamilton
(Post 20502452)
I feel like I just got a free bike fit from Greg LeMond. Dude is seriously one of my cycling heroes. Old school. Very cool guy. I think if I can even ride a bike at my age and condition that Greg LeMond would fit me to, I can live with that if it means getting a 120mm stem. Now, which one to choose? |
Somebody please trade me torsos or legs or whatever you got. If LeMond can’t fit me to a bike without killing me, nobody can. I give up. |
There are a lot of ways to measure frames and relate the number to the size, not even dealing with how modern frames are handled.
For most steel frames like yours with its level top tube, the frame size is measured along the seat tube from BB center to the top of the top tube, or the the point where the axis of the seat tube intersects the axis of the top tube. For Italians its nearly always the latter. In LeMond's formula, it was center to center. Raleigh probably measured from center bb to the top of the top tube. The difference between the two numbers for frames with standard-diameter tubes is 1.27 mm, or half an inch. So the recommendation I calculated is right about 56 cm center-center. That turns into 57.27 cm center-top or 22.6". This rounds up to 23", fo your frame is not far off the LeMond target. There's another issue in that one normally measures inseam not to the inch but to the millimeter. If you measure it again to 1/16", that's within a millimeter of the metric value. But I think the match is close enough not to worry about. A lot of people think that top tube length is more important than seat tube length. Nowadays some companies give you full frame geometry so you can have full information, but I'm not sure that is all useful. Your 23" spec is most likely relative to teh seat tube. I'd say don't change out your frame unless you don't like it, it breaks, or someone who's doing an in-depth fit for you (>>$100 price) convinces you it's necessary. But you said your Profile Design stem is 130 mm and you want to try something shorter, so I would say, try that. If you can get another one that is shorter, I'd say go for it, it will make changing back and forth much easier. I love the look of classic forged aluminum stems like the Nittos, 3TTT, and Cinelli, but I don't think the Profile Design has any problem other than looks. And you can buy a nice one after you get the fit dialed in based on how it works in YOUR riding. |
Originally Posted by Road Fan
(Post 20502463)
There are a lot of ways to measure frames and relate the number to the size, not even dealing with how modern frames are handled.
For most steel frames like yours with its level top tube, the frame size is measured along the seat tube from BB center to the top of the top tube, or the the point where the axis of the seat tube intersects the axis of the top tube. For Italians its nearly always the latter. In LeMond's formula, it was center to center. Raleigh probably measured from center bb to the top of the top tube. The difference between the two numbers for frames with standard-diameter tubes is 1.27 mm, or half an inch. So the recommendation I calculated is right about 56 cm center-center. That turns into 57.27 cm center-top or 22.6". This rounds up to 23", fo your frame is not far off the LeMond target. There's another issue in that one normally measures inseam not to the inch but to the millimeter. If you measure it again to 1/16", that's within a millimeter of the metric value. But I think the match is close enough not to worry about. A lot of people think that top tube length is more important than seat tube length. Nowadays some companies give you full frame geometry so you can have full information, but I'm not sure that is all useful. Your 23" spec is most likely relative to teh seat tube. I'd say don't change out your frame unless you don't like it, it breaks, or someone who's doing an in-depth fit for you (>>$100 price) convinces you it's necessary. But you said your Profile Design stem is 130 mm and you want to try something shorter, so I would say, try that. If you can get another one that is shorter, I'd say go for it, it will make changing back and forth much easier. I love the look of classic forged aluminum stems like the Nittos, 3TTT, and Cinelli, but I don't think the Profile Design has any problem other than looks. And you can buy a nice one after you get the fit dialed in based on how it works in YOUR riding. Inseam is 867mm, 34 1/8”. I prefer to not have to provide photo evidence. 867 x .883 = 765 or 30 1/8”. I use flat pedals and sneakers, the extra 1/8” drop gives me better grip on the pedals and is a little easier on my 36 year old knees. Seat tube 72°, head tube 71.5 “ish”. Maybe the “ish” is what’s throwing thing off. |
Originally Posted by Phamilton
(Post 20502408)
OK thanks. This particular frame was sold nominally as a 23” and measures 58cm seat tube and 57cm top tube, so I actually should go smaller then? TBH I’ve never ridden a stem longer than 100mm so I can’t say that’s not what is causing the wobble. When I have made and installed my selection I will report back with the handling characteristics. Ive never heard of wobble correlated with stem length. Edit: just remembered I used LeMond’s method for my saddle height, inseam x .883. 30” on the nose. It ended up being 3/4” lower than I had it and it took me about 3 weeks to get used to it but I have never felt so comfortable in the saddle.For me, saddle height was the #1 source of discomfort and pain. Setback a close 2nd. Edit 2: I wish I knew what LeMond would recommend for stem length. I’m guessing if he puts me on a 56cm frame and I’m currently on a 57, probably right around where I have it currently with the 130, but feeling like a 120 would be just perfect. Man, that’s weird. I just skimmed through LeMond's book, and he did not give any specific recommendations for stem length, or sitbone to handgrip reach. He does say "don't be bunched-up on the bike and shares his experience that a rider needs to have 1" of clearance between the kneecap and the elbow at the closest point, when you are gripping the bars in the curve of the hook.. This is to make sure you can get your back flat when you need speed, and that you won't have your limbs hitting each other when you stand up to get up to speed on the uphill after your traffic light turns green. Are you satisfied with your setback? In general correct bike size is only necessary to make sure you can adjust all your contact points to suit your body and riding style, using available parts (seatpost, saddle, stem, bars). If it feels good over the longest and most difficult distances you will ride, it IS good, and so is your frame. |
Originally Posted by Phamilton
(Post 20502480)
58cm ST and 57cm TT are measured by me with an actual tape measure. C to C. I can verify any dimension or angle you want with photos. I don’t have a metric tape. I just keep forgetting to get one. Inseam is 867mm, 34 1/8”. I prefer to not have to provide photo evidence. 867 x .883 = 765 or 30 1/8”. I use flat pedals and sneakers, the extra 1/8” drop gives me better grip on the pedals and is a little easier on my 36 year old knees. Seat tube 72°, head tube 71.5 “ish”. Maybe the “ish” is what’s throwing thing off. Ok, I'll just look at your new data - I don't want any pictures. frame size c-c target is 867 mm * 0.65 = 563 mm. Adding 12.7 mm, that translates to 576 mm, which converts to 22.7" center to top. So your 23" frame if exact is only 0.3 inches too big! So again, your frame is the right height. What did you measure the angles with? If you really have a 72" seat tube, that will allow you to have most likely all the setback you'll ever need. |
Originally Posted by Road Fan
(Post 20502485)
Ok, kudos for working so far with LeMond's formula! I don't think anyone regards it as the be-all and end-all solution but it's a proven starting point which has already helped you!
I just skimmed through LeMond's book, and he did not give any specific recommendations for stem length, or sitbone to handgrip reach. He does say "don't be bunched-up on the bike and shares his experience that a rider needs to have 1" of clearance between the kneecap and the elbow at the closest point, when you are gripping the bars in the curve of the hook.. This is to make sure you can get your back flat when you need speed, and that you won't have your limbs hitting each other when you stand up to get up to speed on the uphill after your traffic light turns green. Are you satisfied with your setback? In general correct bike size is only necessary to make sure you can adjust all your contact points to suit your body and riding style, using available parts (seatpost, saddle, stem, bars). If it feels good over the longest and most difficult distances you will ride, it IS good, and so is your frame. With the 95mm stem, I had to hunch my lower back slightly. It made it hard to breathe and somewhat harder to pedal and my wrists were hurting. Those things were addressed by the 130mm stem, but since I’m commuting, I enjoy a little bit easier view of the road with just a little less reach. |
Originally Posted by Road Fan
(Post 20502503)
Ok, I'll just look at your new data - I don't want any pictures.
frame size c-c target is 867 mm * 0.65 = 563 mm. Adding 12.7 mm, that translates to 576 mm, which converts to 22.7" center to top. So your 23" frame if exact is only 0.3 inches too big! So again, your frame is the right height. What did you measure the angles with? If you really have a 72" seat tube, that will allow you to have most likely all the setback you'll ever need. top tube provided exact 0° reading, moved to seat tube, gave -18°consistently throughout the length of the tube in 2 different locations in my garage. The head badge made it difficult to read, it went back and forth between -18 and -19 in same two locations in garage. Calculating stack and reach of frame and comparing to real world wheelbase number produced by calculator that also produced a 71.5° number for the head tube. I can give a link to the calculator and my results if desired. |
Originally Posted by onyerleft
(Post 20502525)
I have the same Profile stem on one bike. It's not a looker, but it's worth it for the convenience of the removable face plate. If I were you, I would buy that same stem but in a shorter length. Don't buy Nitto; it's not worth the absurd prices they ask, especially since you can still buy Cinelli stems new. And, just between you and me, you're bike ain't that great as to warrant dropping big bucks into it anyway.
I don’t want a profile stem. I have one and I don’t like it. What frame should I get that is deserving of the stem I want? Is my bike good enough to commute on? Are you in cahoots with Greg LeMond’s suicide stem squad? Does anybody read before they comment? Why are we here? |
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