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Need help identifying a 1960s Italian road bike! Solve this mystery!

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Need help identifying a 1960s Italian road bike! Solve this mystery!

Old 08-25-18, 09:51 AM
  #1  
aceves
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Need help identifying a 1960s Italian road bike! Solve this mystery!

Hi BF Members,


New member here seeking the help of BF's wealth of knowledge. I recently acquired a 1960s Italian road bike, but I cannot place the make or model. All I know is that it has a number of Campagnolo components, with a few other brands mixed in. Any help in identifying this bike will be greatly appreciated! I will post photos and describe the components it came with, in hopes that some of you can point me in the right direction. I have searched and searched the internet, but to no avail. It looks like it has early Cinelli lugs, and the frame and fork are chromed underneath the paint (although there's plenty of rust). As to a serial number, the only one I could find was on the seat tube, upper left side. It reads B60. That's it. Nothing on the bottom bracket shell. One other thing: it has a sticker on the top tube, left side, that reads AVALLUCCI 26222 B, but it is cut off at the front. Could it be CAVALLUCCI, as in a last name? I want to give this bike a second chance at life (or third, if it has been restored before, I don't know). =) Here are the components:


Chrome frame (size 60cm) and fork underneath silver and blue paint.

Campagnolo dropouts, front and rear.

Campagnolo front derailleur.

Campagnolo shifter levers.

Campagnolo seat tube pump holder.

Campagnolo Record hubs, front and rear.

Campagnolo brake housing top tube brackets

Universal Super 68 caliper brakes.

Nisi tubular wheels, front and rear.

3TTT drop bars.

3TTT Gran Prix Special stem.

Nervar Star double crankset (France).

Zeus Criterium rear derailleur (Spain).

Freccia D'Oro plastic saddle.

Gipiemme pedals with Christophe cages.

Caimi freewheel.


I have been searching for frames that have that serial number placement on the seat tube, but no hits yet. I looked for early Cinelli lugged frames, but the fork crown lugs don't match. The seat tube lugs are also very particular. And the bottom bracket shell with no serial number is a real head-scratcher...


I want to restore the bike, and it would be nice to know what I'm restoring! Any assistance and advice will be much appreciated!! Thank you!!





















Last edited by aceves; 08-26-18 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 08-25-18, 10:29 AM
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I have no idea of the manufacturer, but the brazed-on Campagnolo cable guides on the bottom bracket were commonly used between the mid 1970's to early 80's. My guess would be closer to the earlier date, given the chromed lugs and clamp-on brake cable guides.
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Old 08-25-18, 10:54 AM
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Interesting! There is a few strong similarities to what could be it's inbred cousin. The Garlatti
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Old 08-25-18, 11:26 AM
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Hi michael k,

Wow, they are similar! Do you have any additional photos of that Garlatti? Please post!
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Old 08-25-18, 11:32 AM
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Here are a few more pics. You will see that the bottom bracket shell has no serial numbers. And the pedals are Gipiemme (Italy), but have Christophe cages (France). I cannot make out the brand of the leather strap clip. Any ideas?









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Old 08-25-18, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by aceves View Post
Hi michael k,

Wow, they are similar! Do you have any additional photos of that Garlatti? Please post!
There is a few more pics on my flickr account. Let me know if you can access them.
What caught my eye was similarities on the cable guides on the BB,paint and the stamped number on the seat tube. (not pictured)
I do believe mine is a lower end model,possibly older. (I have not dated it)
37971816_1651806441597365_1307105573493276672_o by K Farm, on Flickr
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Old 08-25-18, 11:49 AM
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Hi michael k,

Thank you for the additional pics. I looked on Flickr, and although the bottom bracket lugs are similar, the head tube and seat tube lugs are different. The search continues...
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Old 08-25-18, 11:50 AM
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Old 08-25-18, 12:00 PM
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-----

Thinking it could not be much earlier than 1967 nor much later than 1968. You will be able to retrieve a specific year from the locknuts of the hubs.

Rear mech, pedals & toeclips may be the only non-original fittings. Toe straps appear to be Alfredo Binda.

Headset is Way-Assauto.

Bottom bracket shell is Agrati from the "SPORT" and "ROMA" ensembles and is item nr. 005.8057.

Several companies produced lugs of this pattern so it is difficult to ID one over the other. Since shell definitely Agrati lugset may be Agrati as well. If so, it is a pattern termed "CORSA." BOCAMA & NERVEX also offered sets of this pattern.

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Old 08-25-18, 12:03 PM
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My initial reaction was it's an ATALA.

This is based on the paint scheme and that odd mix of components with which ATALAs always seemed to be furnished.
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Old 08-25-18, 12:21 PM
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@michael k -thanks very much for the Garlatti suggestion.there are some differences in the frames.Garlatti pictured is constructed of the Agrati "ROMA" lug ensemble nr. 000.8020/E/U. Upper head lug is item nr. 000.8024. Lower head lug is item nr. 000.8023. Seat lug is item nr. 005.8059 from the Agrati "SPORT" ensemble. Bottom bracket shell is the same as that of subject cycle and is item nr. 005.8057. Fork ends are Agrati item nr. 000.8010. Dropouts Agrati as well but do not have the stock number for them. Fork crown is NERVEX pattern nr. 6.Seat stay treatments on the two frames also differ.-----
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Old 08-25-18, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Bad Lag View Post
My initial reaction was it's an ATALA.

This is based on the paint scheme and that odd mix of components with which ATALAs always seemed to be furnished.
I thought the same because of the placement of the serial, and the chromed head lugs
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Old 08-25-18, 01:13 PM
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-----

Regarding Atala -

serial format not Rizzato. they begin with a two digit numeral which is the year of fabrication followed by a single capitol letter, then the balance of the number.





have never seen a Rizzato product wearing this seat stay treatment...there is of course always a first time.

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CAVALLUCCI name -

this is a place name in Italy, Villagio Cavallucci.

also a family name.

the name of a particular pastry.

name for seahorses.

One possibility which comes to mind is that it may be a bicycle registration stamp or an owner's ID marking.

Have been unable to locate a bicycle marque of that name. This list gives over one thousand Italian marques and it is not present:

http://www.italiaanseracefietsen.com/merkenlijst/#C

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Old 08-25-18, 04:03 PM
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Here is a link to an ATALA with that seat stay end treatment. The bike at the link has different lugs but the seat stay ends are just like your mystery bike.

Link to 1970 ATALA on ebay.com
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Old 08-25-18, 04:16 PM
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Thanks for this find.

If subject cycle a Rizzato product there should be some additional characters in the seat tube marking.

Perhaps they were struck too lightly to show through paint finish.
@aceves - maybe you could sand that area...

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Old 08-25-18, 06:00 PM
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On my screen seat tube markings appear 8 6 0 rather than B 6 0. All the Rizzato products I can recall seeing have the serial on the drive side of the seat tube. This marking is on the left side.

One of the things which made me think cycle not Rizzato was absence of marking on bottom bracket shell. Rizzato produce made for export to the english speaking world where I live has size numbers stamped into the shell in two places giving the bicycle's nominal frame size in inches. Member aceves gives location as U.S. so one would expect to see those numbers, unless of course cycle originally produced for another market



Establishing Rizzato-ness is not necessarily establishing Atala-ness. The company has produced cycles under numerous other marques. Some of these include Atlantica, Ceriz, Corso, Dei, Lygie, Maino, Radius.

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Old 08-25-18, 07:12 PM
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Old 08-25-18, 07:21 PM
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IIRC T-Mar has stated a sometime connection between Garlatti and Rizzato.

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Old 08-25-18, 07:55 PM
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Hi everyone,

juvela, Bad Lag, CI904, and michael k, thank you so much for your insightful comments. I feel that I am getting closer to the solving the mystery. This bike was purchased from Italy, so although I am in the US, this bike came from the Italian market. juvela, the seat tube serial number is prominent, but I could definitely sand that area down to see if I spot any additional markings. It is however a B60, not an 860, on the left side seat tube. I am 100% sure of it, as I cleaned that part after I took the pics. The B has a corner to it, unlike an 8. So it is a B60. Would it be a reference to the initial name of the maker, plus the size of the frame? It is a 60cm frame after all.

Again, I greatly appreciate all your comments. Thank you.

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Old 08-25-18, 08:22 PM
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thank you for this additional information aceves!

appreciated and helpful.

one thing none of us has asked about is whether or not there are any holes in the head tube for headplate fasteners. sometimes when present their arrangement and distance apart can be a clue.

another clue area not as yet discussed the the treatment of the taper tube ends where they meet the frame ends. Rizzato has a distinctive way of doing this seen on all of their quality models.

you might like to see (if you have not already!) this 1974 Atala Professional recently posted to the forum. its colour scheme, but little else, is reminiscent of your cycle. look at the detail of how the taper tube ends meet the frame ends and compare it to your bike. this is one spot we do not get to see well despite your many images.



here is a 1969 Atala Professional -



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Old 08-26-18, 12:20 AM
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Hi juvela,

Thank you for the Agrati discovery, I will start my research on that end as to the bottom bracket shell.

As to your question about the head tube having holes for a badge, no holes are present. I will take a pic soon and post it.

And your reference to taper tubes, can you please explain? I do not understand where taper tubes are located. Are you talking about the tubes by the dropouts? Front or rear? Or a lug area on the frame? Please explain and I will take and post pics.

Thank you.
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Old 08-26-18, 12:28 AM
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Also, how do I locate the specific year (1967 or 1968) from the locknuts of the hubs? The fast-release Campagnolo locknuts, or the freewheel and hub part of the wheels? I will look at those areas, just need to know what Iím looking for and where (and I will post pics too). =)

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Old 08-26-18, 04:43 AM
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@aceves - The lock nut is the first nut on the axle. It often is serrated and impinges on the drop out when the QR is closed. The date is usually stamped on the inside surface, requiring disassembly to read it.
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Old 08-26-18, 04:44 AM
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Hub dating -



Taper tubes -

collective term referring to fork blades, seat stays & chainstays.

note the treatment where they meet the frame ends.

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Old 08-26-18, 11:08 AM
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UPDATE: I dated the bike to 1972!! Thanks to juvela and SJX426 for their information the locknuts. I went out this morning, took off the front wheel, removed the lock nut, and there it was: CAM. 72. One piece of the puzzle solved!


Last edited by aceves; 08-26-18 at 11:45 AM.
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