Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Cycling vs jogging up a steep slope

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Cycling vs jogging up a steep slope

Old 08-25-18, 11:00 PM
  #1  
jyl
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jyl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 7,642

Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 389 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 42 Times in 27 Posts
Cycling vs jogging up a steep slope

I've been on vacation this week, riding my MTB a bit, including some climbs. Some were the sort of climbs that you ride at a fast walking or slow jogging pace, in the granny and big cog.

During these climbs, I wondered: at what grade is riding harder and less efficient than walking / jogging?

Of course bikes have many gears, while joggers only have one. And if the bike doesn't have the right gearing, the cyclist is at a huge disadvantage on any significant grade. But we can imagine a situation where both the cyclist and jogger use the same cadence to go the same speed.

Figure that jogging at 5 mph might mean about 90 rpm, assuming a stride of about 2.5 feet. Walkers and runners would call this 180 steps per minute. The cyclists' "rpm” is half that, so 90 rpm means 180 steps/min.

On a 26" MTB, a low gear like 24 x 32 means about 5 mph at 90 rpm.

So, at what grade is it harder to ride up at 5 mph and 90 rpm in that 24 x 32 gear, than to jog up at 5 mph at about 90 rpm aka 180 steps/min?





jyl is offline  
Old 08-25-18, 11:13 PM
  #2  
noobinsf 
Senior Member
 
noobinsf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 2,523

Bikes: '82 Univega Competizione, '72 Motobecane Grand Record, '83 Mercian KOM Touring, '85 Univega Alpina Uno, '76 Eisentraut Limited

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 785 Post(s)
Liked 590 Times in 388 Posts
Originally Posted by jyl View Post
I've been on vacation this week,



noobinsf is offline  
Old 08-26-18, 05:05 AM
  #3  
Prowler 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Near Pottstown, PA: 30 miles NW of Philadelphia
Posts: 1,772

Bikes: 2 Trek Mtn, Cannondale R600 road, 6 vintage road bikes

Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 326 Post(s)
Liked 354 Times in 180 Posts
"What......is the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?"
Prowler is offline  
Old 08-26-18, 05:25 AM
  #4  
Colnago Mixte
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Center of Central CA
Posts: 1,671
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 897 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Maybe try running up the hill carrying the bike, cyclocross style, time it and record your heart rate. Then ride the bike up and compare figures.

Something tells me that riding the bike will prove more efficient than carrying it, but I really should wait until all the numbers are in.

To answer one of your questions, I would think that when a grade becomes too steep to get traction and you can no longer ride it up the hill, yes, at that point, running would definitely be more efficient. That's all I can safely say at this point.
Colnago Mixte is offline  
Old 08-26-18, 05:44 AM
  #5  
Narhay
Senior Member
 
Narhay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,592
Mentioned: 111 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 899 Post(s)
Liked 409 Times in 248 Posts
Originally Posted by Prowler View Post
"What......is the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?"
What do you mean? An African or European swallow?
Narhay is offline  
Old 08-26-18, 06:34 AM
  #6  
gugie 
Bike Butcher of Portland
 
gugie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 9,325

Bikes: It's complicated.

Mentioned: 1019 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3338 Post(s)
Liked 1,670 Times in 854 Posts
My granny gear is two feet.

Stole that one from @aggiegrads
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
gugie is offline  
Old 08-26-18, 06:40 AM
  #7  
John E
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 20,477

Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 993 Post(s)
Liked 417 Times in 303 Posts
I remember bicycling with my Los Angeles double century training buddy in the hills of Malibu CA and being passed by an occasional jogger on some of the steeper climbs. At some point -- about a 10 percent grade, perhaps? --the 15 (give or take) percent weight penalty of the bicycle exceeds cycling's inherent benefits in efficiency.

This is where one has to ask how low a bottom gear is genuinely useful, assuming one wears touring shoes with walkable soles.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline  
Old 08-26-18, 08:35 AM
  #8  
seypat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,966
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1880 Post(s)
Liked 816 Times in 565 Posts
You need to make the distinction between easier/more efficient and faster. I am both a cyclist and a runner. There might be some point when the grade is small the cycling could be easier/more efficient. But for the most part, walking/running will be easier. The reason is that the forces of gravity are only acting against the pedestrian advancing upward. The legs/body act as a ratchet preventing regression backwards. Enegy is only used advancing forward. But on the bike, gravity is working against both advancing foreward and rolling back down the grade. At some point you have to dismount and go to walking/running.
seypat is offline  
Old 08-26-18, 08:39 AM
  #9  
RobbieTunes
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,373 Times in 887 Posts
Excellent question.

Jogging or running up those high grades is faster for 99% of us, above a benchmark grade, no doubt.

While Lance's 13mph up Alp Dr Hues may stand for years, his cutoff points are far higher than mine.

Running uses more body parts to climb, and shares the load. Cramps are much more rare for runners; fatigue is the issue, as work (moving an object through a distance) tends to sap resources.

IMO, bike climbing near the "cutoff" grade isolates the quads, to a point where the rest of my pitiful body can't dissipate the lactic acid . It is too late, by then, to run, so you'd want to dismount and jog/walk for prevention, not solution.

There is a technique to use your body weight on each pedal, to climb in short bursts, something children seem to do innately, and we forget over time as we add excess weight. I opine that is the cutoff point; i.e. this is probably the speed where jogging equals cycling on a hill.

It comes down to gearing and cadence. Some fit riders keep cadence and are fit enough to make it work for the duration of the climb. Most shift down and spread the work over more revolutions, hoping to reduce load on the quads enough to stave off lactic acid buildup long enough to outlast the hill.

I have run competitively, but not achieved that level in cycling. No incline ever locked me up while running, and this includes Pike's Peak. Toppling over on bike climbs, with stone quads, well , been there, done that. Some is fitness, some is age, as I did the assault on Mount Mitchell on a Schwinn Varsity, and made it, but 35 years later, with far better gear, walked some.

If you know in advance that you can transition to foot mode, crest the peak, and enjoy the ride, do it. I would have your back in any discussion.

Last edited by RobbieTunes; 08-26-18 at 09:11 AM.
RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 08-26-18, 09:07 AM
  #10  
texaspandj
Senior Member
 
texaspandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Heart Of Texas
Posts: 4,129

Bikes: '85, '86 , '87 , '88 , '89 Centurion Dave Scott Ironman.

Mentioned: 99 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1547 Post(s)
Liked 463 Times in 313 Posts
I recently watched an old video of a mountain bike race that was not very technical by mountain bike standards. World class athletes from running, road racing, triathlon, and of course mountain bike racing were competing in it. There was one section where every single one of them dismounted and pushed their bikes on one particular incline.
The event was called the race of champions. It was a a cool format as it gad a bike road race, a running road race, a duathlon, and a mountain bike race. They were given points for their placing in each event. No surprise that a then 20 year old L.A. one the overall event.
texaspandj is offline  
Old 08-26-18, 09:14 AM
  #11  
Spaghetti Legs 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 4,197

Bikes: Numerous

Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1291 Post(s)
Liked 890 Times in 384 Posts
If I’m cross racing, I run, jog, stagger up the steep ones. I will often pass people riding, but it will inch my HR a little closer to or over the red. I think generally though, the body is happier to keep doing the same task (I.e. pedal steady tempo) without disruption, even if it is a little slower.
__________________
N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘85 Pinarello Record, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
Spaghetti Legs is offline  
Old 08-26-18, 09:53 AM
  #12  
wphamilton
Senior Member
 
wphamilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 15,280

Bikes: Nashbar Road

Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2932 Post(s)
Liked 333 Times in 223 Posts
I have read about it in a couple of places, including on BF, where there were some difficult climbs that had joggers passing up most of the cyclists on the hill. What is generally the grade of the slope where that happens?
wphamilton is offline  
Old 08-26-18, 10:18 AM
  #13  
northbend 
Senior Member
 
northbend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: North Bend, Washington State
Posts: 2,456

Bikes: 1937 Hobbs; 1974 Alex Singer; 1977 Bruce Gordon; 1987 Bill Holland; 1988 Schwinn Paramount (Fixed gear); 1999 Fat City Yo Eddy (MTB); 2018 Woodrup (Touring)

Mentioned: 231 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 391 Post(s)
Liked 1,178 Times in 276 Posts
I rarely have to get off and walk up up a grade on a road bike. When I do, it is due to carrying weight while touring or road surface conditions. I attribute this to the fact that my road bikes have real world gearing, none are set up with racing gear ratios. On an MTB, I walk/hike more frequently because I suck at MTB, specifically, clearing obstacles and switchbacks on a climb or even if I know I am capable making it up the trail I am riding on the bike but the effort is too intense. It's about saving energy on a long all day effort.
northbend is offline  
Old 08-26-18, 10:47 AM
  #14  
Bad Lag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: So Cal, for now
Posts: 1,445

Bikes: 1975 Bob Jackson - Nuovo Record, Brooks Pro, Clips & Straps

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 534 Post(s)
Liked 146 Times in 92 Posts
Joggers have the equivalent of an infinitely variable transmission and a real-time balance control system (active attitude control). These are a HUGE advantage to them.

At low speeds, it isn't the I bike's mass that's the problem. At low speeds, you have to exert extra effort to stay balanced on a bike whose wheels aren't spinning fast enough to give you that usual effortless balance.

Practice will help reduce the effort (panic) of feeling you will fall over with every stroke. With practice, eventually, you will be able to spin rather than stroke/stomp but you will still be expending energy trying to stay balanced.

So, I think the essential difference between jogging and riding up a hill is the balance.
Bad Lag is offline  
Old 08-26-18, 10:50 AM
  #15  
63rickert
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,806
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 910 Post(s)
Liked 235 Times in 177 Posts
Runners do have different gears. They can vary length of stride. Especially in steep terrain cross country runners most definitely and intentionally vary length of stride.

Were you really doing 90rpm? That's very good if you were, very few are going to climb at that cadence and no one is going that fast on a limiting climb. In fact if an average rider is doing 5mph on a climb it's likely not more than road-steep. Calculate the power needed to lift your weight and bike weight on a 10% grade. The numbers get big fast. On a limiting grade of 25-30% you are not doing 5mph for more than a moment.

Mount Washington Hill Climb has been going a long time both for runners and for cyclists. Average grade 12%. Bikes are faster, period. Steeper than that, rougher than that it's a tougher question.

When a cyclist quits pedalling and starts walking they will almost always be overstressed before they get off the bike and will very rarely go straight to a full run. It will happen in CX races but they aremostly getting off because of limits to traction.

One big reason bikes can be faster is wheels are good for preserving momentum. On extreme climbs it is different. How good runners are at preserving momentum varies enormously. Running with a carried or pushed bike is not good at all for preserving momentum.
63rickert is offline  
Old 08-26-18, 11:26 AM
  #16  
63rickert
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,806
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 910 Post(s)
Liked 235 Times in 177 Posts
Another assumption that needs to be checked. 180 strides per minute is in the ballpark for runners but would be distinctly quick. Uphill it would be quicker still. OP guesses stride length at 2-1/2 feet. That is a stride for walking. Many runners would be trying to do a shorter stride on a climb but that is real short. Running stride would more usually be 6-8 feet.
63rickert is offline  
Old 08-26-18, 11:41 AM
  #17  
wphamilton
Senior Member
 
wphamilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 15,280

Bikes: Nashbar Road

Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2932 Post(s)
Liked 333 Times in 223 Posts
Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
Another assumption that needs to be checked. 180 strides per minute is in the ballpark for runners but would be distinctly quick. Uphill it would be quicker still. OP guesses stride length at 2-1/2 feet. That is a stride for walking. Many runners would be trying to do a shorter stride on a climb but that is real short. Running stride would more usually be 6-8 feet.
About three and a half feet if the runner has a 10 minute pace at that stride rate. There are different styles, but 180 steps per minute is right at what you're aiming at when you're going for the short stride high cadence thing, and you don't really speed it up going uphill. You just shorten the stride. So I think that his assumptions are pretty sound.
wphamilton is offline  
Old 08-26-18, 11:50 AM
  #18  
RobbieTunes
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,373 Times in 887 Posts
Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
I have read about it in a couple of places, including on BF, where there were some difficult climbs that had joggers passing up most of the cyclists on the hill. What is generally the grade of the slope where that happens?
Varies per individual, but I'm sort of in 63rickert's camp on about 12%.

7-8%, like Thunder Ridge's 13-14 mile climb, is probably faster on a bike for most people. 6-min miles were considerably slow for me as a runner, but I'm not sure I could hold them for 14 miles on an 8% grade.

My guess is, if the race were only 14 miles long, upper-level runners could do Thunder Ridge at 10mph or quicker. However, a lot of cyclists finish the ridge well under an hour. No runner will do that.

Runners can and do change stride and rate of same, but above a certain level, like cyclists, they don't vary much; they suck it up and are really thinking about something else at the time. Marathoners, at a certain speed, simply shut down the thinking process for long stretches, and let their body run on autopilot. Changes in stride don't happen unless they kind of "focus in" and make cognizant changes.

This is a great discussion. I currently cycle less miles per year than I used to run (3500-3600). I climb anywhere from 8mph to 13 mph, depending on grade, where I used to stay a bit above 10mph on all my runs. My normal stride was about 7 feet, but in a finish kick, up to 9.5. I could pick up a bike back then, and ride with my friends for 25 miles at 21+ mph, and still not think it was fun.

I have been passed on "the wall" at Dairyland Dare by a guy on Pugsley fat-tire bike, and he was smiling all the way. My quads were screaming.

But, I'm carrying 40 lbs more, and don't run a lick. That has to make a difference, I'm sure.

Then there's the mental aspect.

My advise to the OP is wear those running shoes, gauge those climbs before you get on them, and walk quickly up them, pushing the bike. You are still moving the object through the distance, so work is the same, perhaps, but you are saving specific muscle groups that may give you trouble if you don't. That's just my take on a very interesting subject.

T-Mar was a notable runner, and knows cycling, and is an engineer. I'd be very interested in his input.

If this involves math, I'm out.

Last edited by RobbieTunes; 08-26-18 at 12:16 PM.
RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 08-26-18, 12:08 PM
  #19  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,599

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,320 Times in 830 Posts
Seems racing cyclocross , throwing the bike over your shoulder and running up a hill,
is how you kept yourself from being lapped..

I get off and push when my heart rate races...

and watch the races, when there were any, from the beer tent..



As I found, in England , if it does not have a Motor, its a 'push-bike'..


...
fietsbob is offline  
Old 08-26-18, 12:10 PM
  #20  
RobbieTunes
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,373 Times in 887 Posts
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
and watch the races, when there were any, from the beer tent..

As I found, in England , if it does not have a Motor, its a 'push-bike'..

...
And every mid-sized town has cyclocross down to what, 8 years old In England?
RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 08-26-18, 12:20 PM
  #21  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,599

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,320 Times in 830 Posts
As you would see, I'm on the Oregon Coast, not Portland, or, England,
( but for a couple bike tours )..
fietsbob is offline  
Old 08-26-18, 02:12 PM
  #22  
RobbieTunes
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,373 Times in 887 Posts
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
As you would see, I'm on the Oregon Coast, not Portland, or, England,
( but for a couple bike tours )..
My point, which I failed to communicate, was the popularity and commitment of English towns to cross racing and cycling for kids, in general.

Not to mention the Sustran.
RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 08-26-18, 03:21 PM
  #23  
machinist42
mycocyclist
 
machinist42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Monkey Junction, Wilmington, NC
Posts: 1,626

Bikes: 1964 Schwinn Paramount P-13 DeLuxe, 1964 Schwinn Sport Super Sport, 1972 Falcon San Remo, 1974 Maserati MT-1, 1974 Raleigh International, 1984 Lotus Odyssey, 198? Rossin Ghibli, 1990 LeMond Le Vanquer (sic), 1991 Specialized Allez Transition Pro, +

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 672 Post(s)
Liked 242 Times in 166 Posts
Let's Get Dirty?

Originally Posted by jyl View Post
I've been on vacation this week ...
So, at what grade is it harder to ride up at 5 mph and 90 rpm in that 24 x 32 gear, than to jog up at 5 mph at about 90 rpm aka 180 steps/min?
Unless a runner used the stairs adjacent to the cobblestone Canton Avenue, I'll suggest those who make it to the top of Canton Avenue are moving more swiftly than a jogger might? The tandem does particularly well. It should be noted recumbents tend to flip over on this 37% grade.


(Apologies for the poor video quality. It was the first in queue is all. And I know this doesn't address your question. I lived in Pgh for a decade and most notably was passed heading uphill on my way to work on the third Batman film, by two stunt guys running. I still arrived much earlier to the set than they did, as the other, downhill side, worked far more to my advantage than a runner's.)
machinist42 is offline  
Old 08-26-18, 03:28 PM
  #24  
wphamilton
Senior Member
 
wphamilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 15,280

Bikes: Nashbar Road

Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2932 Post(s)
Liked 333 Times in 223 Posts
Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
Varies per individual, but I'm sort of in 63rickert's camp on about 12%.

7-8%, like Thunder Ridge's 13-14 mile climb, is probably faster on a bike for most people. 6-min miles were considerably slow for me as a runner, but I'm not sure I could hold them for 14 miles on an 8% grade.

My guess is, if the race were only 14 miles long, upper-level runners could do Thunder Ridge at 10mph or quicker. However, a lot of cyclists finish the ridge well under an hour. No runner will do that.

Runners can and do change stride and rate of same, but above a certain level, like cyclists, they don't vary much; they suck it up and are really thinking about something else at the time. Marathoners, at a certain speed, simply shut down the thinking process for long stretches, and let their body run on autopilot. Changes in stride don't happen unless they kind of "focus in" and make cognizant changes.

This is a great discussion. I currently cycle less miles per year than I used to run (3500-3600). I climb anywhere from 8mph to 13 mph, depending on grade, where I used to stay a bit above 10mph on all my runs. My normal stride was about 7 feet, but in a finish kick, up to 9.5. I could pick up a bike back then, and ride with my friends for 25 miles at 21+ mph, and still not think it was fun.

I have been passed on "the wall" at Dairyland Dare by a guy on Pugsley fat-tire bike, and he was smiling all the way. My quads were screaming.

But, I'm carrying 40 lbs more, and don't run a lick. That has to make a difference, I'm sure.

Then there's the mental aspect.

My advise to the OP is wear those running shoes, gauge those climbs before you get on them, and walk quickly up them, pushing the bike. You are still moving the object through the distance, so work is the same, perhaps, but you are saving specific muscle groups that may give you trouble if you don't. That's just my take on a very interesting subject.

T-Mar was a notable runner, and knows cycling, and is an engineer. I'd be very interested in his input.

If this involves math, I'm out.
I was thinking of hills where recreational cyclists are getting passed by recreational runners, and the slope of those hills would be a general limit for where it's easier to run up than bike. For most people.

The discussion about the pace and stride is interesting to me because I only learned the fast cadence style in the last year or so (I am 59 now) - mainly because I'd gotten so slow that it felt ridiculous with my accustomed stride length, and also to mitigate the jarring. Weirdly it's consistently right at 178 though I'd targeted 180, strictly on the strength of "internet advice". When I actually ran, at under 20 yrs, there was little resemblance to what I do now. I never thought about stride other than 3-stepping the hurdles, but now I have to think about everything. Mostly about whether that little pain can be ignored or is it a sign of something bad about to happen Turning it off to run up 8% at a 6 minute pace is fascinating, but purely academic from where I'm at.

I don't know that there could be a magic formula for any given individual, since some people (dare I cite Armstrong?) could put out enough power on the bike that he could be wrenching himself up a vertical wall at a walking pace, but it seems like if you could pick an arbitrary speed, say 5 mph, you should be able to find some slope where a "normal" person with more normal power is just faster running.
wphamilton is offline  
Old 08-26-18, 03:40 PM
  #25  
FrenchFit 
The Left Coast, USA
 
FrenchFit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,757

Bikes: Bulls, Bianchi, Koga, Trek, Miyata

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 361 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 16 Posts
On hills that I run I occasionally get to race against MTB bikes, figure they are in the neighborhood of 8-12% grades. If the biker has decent hill climbing ability I always lose. The problem is the running stride shortens dramatically, lots of energy goes toward pushing up rather than pushing forward.
FrenchFit is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.