Should I trust this welded on derailleur hanger?
09-05-18, 09:57 AM
#1
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Should I trust this welded on derailleur hanger?
So I picked up this super course for the cranks but really enjoyed it before I took it apart. I am intending to repaint it, regrease it and put it back in service. I'm unsure if I'm going IGH or cassete for the build. The bike shifted well and it has some nice suntour power shifters I've regreased. It had a 3x suntour VX derailur on the front and I have a suntour vx for the back 5 speeds I can use to replace the crappy plastic shimano tourney it had on it.
The question if have today is about the rear derailur hanger. I know that Super Courses did not come with a derailur mount and I received it with a claw on derailur attached to the shimano tourney.
After taking it off though I discovered this welded on derailur hanger.
It looks pretty rough, home job for sure. It feels solid with no flex, but I dont know if I should trust it if I choose to go the cassete route.
I know ugly doesn't always equal breakable, and that pretty doesnt always mean sturdy, but this thing is gnarly.
thoughts?
The question if have today is about the rear derailur hanger. I know that Super Courses did not come with a derailur mount and I received it with a claw on derailur attached to the shimano tourney.
After taking it off though I discovered this welded on derailur hanger.
It looks pretty rough, home job for sure. It feels solid with no flex, but I dont know if I should trust it if I choose to go the cassete route.
I know ugly doesn't always equal breakable, and that pretty doesnt always mean sturdy, but this thing is gnarly.
thoughts?
09-05-18, 10:01 AM
#2
feros ferio
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Pretty ugly brazing job, but if it is solid and true, it should work just fine, and it is a nice upgrade from a bolt-on claw. If it were mine, I would grind it down a bit with my Dremel tool to improve its appearance.
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Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
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"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
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Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
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09-05-18, 10:07 AM
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Pretty true by my eye, but I've got bad eyes for this haha
Seems solid. And my thoughts exactly. I've had bad luck with tire slippage on a prev claw on setup.
I certiantly wouldnt mind grinding it down a bit. I was just unsure how much tension gets put on a rear derailur.
09-05-18, 10:38 AM
#4
Bad example
You live in Portland, don’t you, Buellster? Take it to Gugie tomcheck it out and clean it.
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09-05-18, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Aubergine
You live in Portland, don’t you, Buellster? Take it to Gugie tomcheck it out and clean it.
I'm unfamiliar with who that is?
09-05-18, 11:12 AM
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I had a hand grinder around and cleaned it up with a sanding disc. Still a bit lumpy but it's a cleaner look if anything.
It'll be behind the derailur so I'm feeling like this is good enough.
It'll be behind the derailur so I'm feeling like this is good enough.
09-05-18, 11:37 AM
#9
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@Buellster,
That was a common modifcation several decades ago. Campagnolo even made a part for it (article 80/1). They were typically brazed, not welded on. I've done a few of these to repair ones that had been hacked off. I clean them up with files, not dremels, but you did a fine job there. As you noted, it's a "hidden" part, so even without cleanup hardly anyone notices. Your photo from behind shows that it appears to be parallel with the dropout, so you're good to go.
I typically cut the derailleur hanger off of a set of dropouts to do the job, as the Campag part has become a unicorn in our modern world.
I'm in SW Portland, actually just outside city limits in the Garden Home area. @Andy_K and I ride fairly regularly together, if you PM me an email address I'd be happy to invite you next time we're headed out. We've got a good number active BF C&V people in Oregon and Washington that get together for rides as well.
That was a common modifcation several decades ago. Campagnolo even made a part for it (article 80/1). They were typically brazed, not welded on. I've done a few of these to repair ones that had been hacked off. I clean them up with files, not dremels, but you did a fine job there. As you noted, it's a "hidden" part, so even without cleanup hardly anyone notices. Your photo from behind shows that it appears to be parallel with the dropout, so you're good to go.
I typically cut the derailleur hanger off of a set of dropouts to do the job, as the Campag part has become a unicorn in our modern world.
I'm in SW Portland, actually just outside city limits in the Garden Home area. @Andy_K and I ride fairly regularly together, if you PM me an email address I'd be happy to invite you next time we're headed out. We've got a good number active BF C&V people in Oregon and Washington that get together for rides as well.
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Last edited by gugie; 12-29-20 at 10:30 AM.
09-05-18, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie
@Buellster,
That was a common modifcation several decades ago. Campagnolo even made a part for it (article 80/1). They were typically brazed, not welded on. I've done a few of these to repair ones that had been hacked off. I clean them up with files, not dremels, but you did a fine job there. As you noted, it's a "hidden" part, so even without cleanup hardly anyone notices. Your photo from behind shows that it appears to be parallel with the dropout, so you're good to go.
I typically cut the derailleur hanger off of an set of dropouts to do the job, as the Campag part has become a unicorn in our modern world.
I'm in SW Portland, actually just outside city limits in the Garden Home area. @Andy_K and I ride fairly regularly together, if you PM me an email address I'd be happy to invite you next time we're headed out. We've got a good number active BF C&V people in Oregon and Washington that get together for rides as well.
That was a common modifcation several decades ago. Campagnolo even made a part for it (article 80/1). They were typically brazed, not welded on. I've done a few of these to repair ones that had been hacked off. I clean them up with files, not dremels, but you did a fine job there. As you noted, it's a "hidden" part, so even without cleanup hardly anyone notices. Your photo from behind shows that it appears to be parallel with the dropout, so you're good to go.
I typically cut the derailleur hanger off of an set of dropouts to do the job, as the Campag part has become a unicorn in our modern world.
I'm in SW Portland, actually just outside city limits in the Garden Home area. @Andy_K and I ride fairly regularly together, if you PM me an email address I'd be happy to invite you next time we're headed out. We've got a good number active BF C&V people in Oregon and Washington that get together for rides as well.
Thanks!
09-05-18, 05:15 PM
#11
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Another thread about this same thing today. That stay end is massive. Surprised you don't need a special license--register as a deadly weapon and all that. Looks like the hanger was done without messing up the chrome, too.
09-05-18, 05:20 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by gugie
@Buellster,
That was a common modifcation several decades ago. Campagnolo even made a part for it (article 80/1). They were typically brazed, not welded on. I've done a few of these to repair ones that had been hacked off. I clean them up with files, not dremels, but you did a fine job there. As you noted, it's a "hidden" part, so even without cleanup hardly anyone notices. Your photo from behind shows that it appears to be parallel with the dropout, so you're good to go.
I typically cut the derailleur hanger off of an set of dropouts to do the job, as the Campag part has become a unicorn in our modern world.
.
That was a common modifcation several decades ago. Campagnolo even made a part for it (article 80/1). They were typically brazed, not welded on. I've done a few of these to repair ones that had been hacked off. I clean them up with files, not dremels, but you did a fine job there. As you noted, it's a "hidden" part, so even without cleanup hardly anyone notices. Your photo from behind shows that it appears to be parallel with the dropout, so you're good to go.
I typically cut the derailleur hanger off of an set of dropouts to do the job, as the Campag part has become a unicorn in our modern world.
.
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09-05-18, 05:35 PM
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This is very interesting to know. I might seek out someone to braze something on my Super Course.
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09-06-18, 01:37 AM
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I would not trust that poor modification! The drop is too thin and flexible to handle the leverage that welded on drop creates. The modification, in my opinion, does absolutely nothing to improve the looks or appearance of the bike. Nor will it improve shifting performance.
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09-06-18, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by randyjawa
I would not trust that poor modification! The drop is too thin and flexible to handle the leverage that welded on drop creates.
09-06-18, 03:08 AM
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Brazed On Derailleur Hanger
Looks like an ugly but satisfactory braze job. The forces on the hanger are not going to be any higher than they would be on a claw style derailleur attachment. If there is any flex, a thin support plate could be added.
Campy and Zeus stamped steel dropouts aren't much thicker.
Job done by Yellow Jersey in WI.
Thin track dropouts with a derailleur hanger brazed on.
verktyg
Campy and Zeus stamped steel dropouts aren't much thicker.
Job done by Yellow Jersey in WI.
Thin track dropouts with a derailleur hanger brazed on.
verktyg
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09-06-18, 05:10 AM
#17
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FWIW I took my 1974 Crescent frame to my "local guy", Peter Dreesens. This Crescent has Suntour GS dropouts but the hanger had been removed by someone in the dark past. Peter had a Campy hanger (one of the unicorns Gugie mentioned???) that he prepped and silver brazed into place. During that project I learned that were numerous dimensions used for the distance between the center of the axle slot and the center of the hanger hole. No standard. RD manufacturers would specify. IIRC, I asked Peter to use 26mm to reflect the spec for my Suntour Cyclone RD.
The repair was a thing of beauty and, with the Cyclone, has worked a charm for a couple of thousand miles now. I'm real glad I had that done vs using a claw.
What is different about silver brazing as opposed to other types?
The repair was a thing of beauty and, with the Cyclone, has worked a charm for a couple of thousand miles now. I'm real glad I had that done vs using a claw.
What is different about silver brazing as opposed to other types?
09-06-18, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Prowler
What is different about silver brazing as opposed to other types?
- will it "wet" on the pieces to be joined?
- is it strong enough?
- what temperature does it need?
- how much will it flow vs puddle?
- what does it cost?
- toxicity of material - rarely an issue for a bicycle repair - and agressiveness of flux
Silver brazing tends to wet well, flow well, be more expensive and can be done at the lower end of the temperature and strength scale. Since it's kinda flowy, parts need to fit well with a fairly small gap.
09-06-18, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Prowler
What is different about silver brazing as opposed to other types?
09-06-18, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Prowler
FWIW I took my 1974 Crescent frame...
How does yours ride?
I only need two people to say they ride well and then I can allow myself to buy a $25 frame set and feel the wrath of swiss fittings as I try and put it together haha
09-06-18, 08:09 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by Buellster
I hear a lot of smack talked of the crescent frames here at BF, but I just love the look of that pepita orange with the checkered flag!
How does yours ride?
I only need two people to say they ride well and then I can allow myself to buy a $25 frame set and feel the wrath of swiss fittings as I try and put it together haha
How does yours ride?
I only need two people to say they ride well and then I can allow myself to buy a $25 frame set and feel the wrath of swiss fittings as I try and put it together haha
09-06-18, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jrbz
Here's one. I had a 60cm 1971 Crescent 319, Reynolds 531, that I rode from 1972-1993 before it got crunched by a taxi. It rode very well for many thousands of kilometers. It took me a couple of low speed spills to get used to the toe overlap, but I'm a slow learner.
wouldnt be for a bit as I have other projects, but they come up for real cheap here in pdx pretty regular.
09-06-18, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by desconhecido
Another thread about this same thing today. That stay end is massive. Surprised you don't need a special license--register as a deadly weapon and all that. Looks like the hanger was done without messing up the chrome, too.
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09-06-18, 06:41 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
Silver brazing is done at lower temperature than brass, but requires tighter tolerances. This isn't much of a concern for a derailleur hanger, so I suspect silver may have been used to minimize heat damage to adjacent chrome or paint.
