How to remove stuck dropout screw?
09-27-18, 07:38 PM
#26
verktyg
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HSS or Cobalt HSS Drills
Originally Posted by cdmurphy
Those are solid carbide "circuit board" drills. They're designed to be run at ungodly speeds in precision spindles for printed circuit board production (100,000+ rpm)
The trouble is, they're extremely delicate. I've never been able to use any but the largest by hand in a Dremel without snapping them off. You would be much better served using high speed steel (hss) or cobalt drill bits. Much tougher, and more than hard enough for drilling out screws. Try McMaster-Carr for a large selection of drill bits, and fast shipping.
That being said, it's still a very dicey operation, especially if you're not very skilled, and lucky. (I'm a machinist by trade, and I doubt I'd have more than a 50% chance of drilling one out without just making it worse.)
The trouble is, they're extremely delicate. I've never been able to use any but the largest by hand in a Dremel without snapping them off. You would be much better served using high speed steel (hss) or cobalt drill bits. Much tougher, and more than hard enough for drilling out screws. Try McMaster-Carr for a large selection of drill bits, and fast shipping.
That being said, it's still a very dicey operation, especially if you're not very skilled, and lucky. (I'm a machinist by trade, and I doubt I'd have more than a 50% chance of drilling one out without just making it worse.)
Those circuit board drills are very brittle and when you break one off you are screwed in the screw.A 1mm or 1.5mm or 1/16" drill works much better.
verktyg
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Last edited by verktyg; 10-03-18 at 03:50 AM.
09-28-18, 07:32 AM
#27
Member
I too recently had this issue on a ‘72 Witcomb. My efforts with mild heat (worried about surrounding paint) and pb blaster etc were no good.
I tried the needle nose vice grips. No good. After successive failures I ended up with no screw protruding on the outside of the dropout and only maybe 1/4” left showing on the inside.
I went to Moroso Performance Products in Guilford, CT. Famous hi end auto parts manufacturer.
They welded a nut on that exposed thread and it promptly broke off flush when we put a wrench on it.
They put the bike upside down in position on a bench drill and began a very deliberate drill process.
They marked the entry and exit holes to get the dropout lined up precisely.
Then, a special starter drill bit. Don’t recall the name but very fine tip on a beefy bit so it won’t wander.
That did a pilot hole.
Next, with cooling fluid, ran a #49 bit thru perfectly and followed with a #38 I believe it was. I think that’s about a 2.5mm bit.
The entry and exit holes were exact.
Finally they used the same drill and setup but switched to a 3mm tap. That was carefully worked thru the hole and I had a perfectly repaired bike.
At no time did the original screw come out. Clean metal came out on the initial drilling but then just rusty filings as they got deeper into the lug.
That screw was never coming out without a drill.
Rick Moroso owns the place, Paul Minore did the work. Incredible job! Disclaimer: I know these guys, are friends with them and use their parts etc. that is why I trusted them in the first place. They are meticulous to an insane degree.
I tried the needle nose vice grips. No good. After successive failures I ended up with no screw protruding on the outside of the dropout and only maybe 1/4” left showing on the inside.
I went to Moroso Performance Products in Guilford, CT. Famous hi end auto parts manufacturer.
They welded a nut on that exposed thread and it promptly broke off flush when we put a wrench on it.
They put the bike upside down in position on a bench drill and began a very deliberate drill process.
They marked the entry and exit holes to get the dropout lined up precisely.
Then, a special starter drill bit. Don’t recall the name but very fine tip on a beefy bit so it won’t wander.
That did a pilot hole.
Next, with cooling fluid, ran a #49 bit thru perfectly and followed with a #38 I believe it was. I think that’s about a 2.5mm bit.
The entry and exit holes were exact.
Finally they used the same drill and setup but switched to a 3mm tap. That was carefully worked thru the hole and I had a perfectly repaired bike.
At no time did the original screw come out. Clean metal came out on the initial drilling but then just rusty filings as they got deeper into the lug.
That screw was never coming out without a drill.
Rick Moroso owns the place, Paul Minore did the work. Incredible job! Disclaimer: I know these guys, are friends with them and use their parts etc. that is why I trusted them in the first place. They are meticulous to an insane degree.
09-28-18, 07:45 AM
#28
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Wow.
I need friends like THAT!!!
I need friends like THAT!!!
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09-28-18, 09:13 AM
#29
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congrats!!!
man cudda used a friend like that a cpl years ago when I broke off the nut from a bolt holding my Subaru rear hatch support bracket. took me weeks to get the right parts & do the job by hand. I was eventually able to extract my bolt tho. doing it by hand was hard but I had a little more meat to work with
man cudda used a friend like that a cpl years ago when I broke off the nut from a bolt holding my Subaru rear hatch support bracket. took me weeks to get the right parts & do the job by hand. I was eventually able to extract my bolt tho. doing it by hand was hard but I had a little more meat to work with
09-28-18, 09:22 AM
#30
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Originally Posted by rccardr
Wow.
I need friends like THAT!!!
I need friends like THAT!!!
I always thought of Moroso as just another "sticker brand", you see on dudes' windows, and MAYBE their tool boxes. Nice to see there's a real family name, and an old-school craft skill and work/solution ethic behind it. I'll look at those stickers differently now.
09-28-18, 10:06 AM
#31
Senior Member
Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Update-
I used a small drill bit to bore out a little of the head of the screw. Then used a reverse threaded extracting bit and it immediately dug into the screw and wound it out.
ended up being a molehill when I thought it was a mountain.
2min job. Fantastic.
I used a small drill bit to bore out a little of the head of the screw. Then used a reverse threaded extracting bit and it immediately dug into the screw and wound it out.
ended up being a molehill when I thought it was a mountain.
2min job. Fantastic.
I can assure you removing small stuck screws with an easy out doesn't always go that well, but as you found out, sometimes it does.
Last edited by Salamandrine; 09-28-18 at 11:27 AM.
09-28-18, 08:51 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by madpogue
^^^^ "Easy out" - rarely easy, and often NOT out.
09-29-18, 10:41 AM
#34
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Originally Posted by Ct03911
I too recently had this issue on a ‘72 Witcomb. My efforts with mild heat (worried about surrounding paint) and pb blaster etc were no good.
I tried the needle nose vice grips. No good. After successive failures I ended up with no screw protruding on the outside of the dropout and only maybe 1/4” left showing on the inside.
I went to Moroso Performance Products in Guilford, CT. Famous hi end auto parts manufacturer.
They welded a nut on that exposed thread and it promptly broke off flush when we put a wrench on it.
They put the bike upside down in position on a bench drill and began a very deliberate drill process.
They marked the entry and exit holes to get the dropout lined up precisely.
Then, a special starter drill bit. Don’t recall the name but very fine tip on a beefy bit so it won’t wander.
That did a pilot hole.
Next, with cooling fluid, ran a #49 bit thru perfectly and followed with a #38 I believe it was. I think that’s about a 2.5mm bit.
The entry and exit holes were exact.
Finally they used the same drill and setup but switched to a 3mm tap. That was carefully worked thru the hole and I had a perfectly repaired bike.
At no time did the original screw come out. Clean metal came out on the initial drilling but then just rusty filings as they got deeper into the lug.
That screw was never coming out without a drill.
Rick Moroso owns the place, Paul Minore did the work. Incredible job! Disclaimer: I know these guys, are friends with them and use their parts etc. that is why I trusted them in the first place. They are meticulous to an insane degree.
I tried the needle nose vice grips. No good. After successive failures I ended up with no screw protruding on the outside of the dropout and only maybe 1/4” left showing on the inside.
I went to Moroso Performance Products in Guilford, CT. Famous hi end auto parts manufacturer.
They welded a nut on that exposed thread and it promptly broke off flush when we put a wrench on it.
They put the bike upside down in position on a bench drill and began a very deliberate drill process.
They marked the entry and exit holes to get the dropout lined up precisely.
Then, a special starter drill bit. Don’t recall the name but very fine tip on a beefy bit so it won’t wander.
That did a pilot hole.
Next, with cooling fluid, ran a #49 bit thru perfectly and followed with a #38 I believe it was. I think that’s about a 2.5mm bit.
The entry and exit holes were exact.
Finally they used the same drill and setup but switched to a 3mm tap. That was carefully worked thru the hole and I had a perfectly repaired bike.
At no time did the original screw come out. Clean metal came out on the initial drilling but then just rusty filings as they got deeper into the lug.
That screw was never coming out without a drill.
Rick Moroso owns the place, Paul Minore did the work. Incredible job! Disclaimer: I know these guys, are friends with them and use their parts etc. that is why I trusted them in the first place. They are meticulous to an insane degree.
They can do stuff like this in their sleep, lucky you to have them for help.
09-29-18, 12:42 PM
#35
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Only thing I would have done diff' would be to use a short drill for the first pass. I just worry about bit wander.
Makes me really want to pursue buying a used Bridgeport vertical mill... just so useful.
Makes me really want to pursue buying a used Bridgeport vertical mill... just so useful.
01-30-21, 01:37 PM
#36
Junior Member
Thanks for this thread, saved my expensive vintage frame!
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. You helped me save a very expensive vintage titanium frame.
One screw came out easy, but in my impatience and inexperience I rounded out the head of the other. I soaked it in liquid wrench for about 2 days, then heated it in a open oven until it was warm but not hot, quickly cut a new slot with a hacksaw with an old blade, and the screw came out really easy.
Now I can fit the 25c tires I'd been hoping for.
Thanks again, you're awesome!
One screw came out easy, but in my impatience and inexperience I rounded out the head of the other. I soaked it in liquid wrench for about 2 days, then heated it in a open oven until it was warm but not hot, quickly cut a new slot with a hacksaw with an old blade, and the screw came out really easy.
Now I can fit the 25c tires I'd been hoping for.
Thanks again, you're awesome!
01-30-21, 02:42 PM
#37
Senior Member
I’ve broken off a couple DO Screws in my 40 yrs of wrenching, but managed to remove them w/o too much trouble.
This new frame I got, came w/o any DO Screws, so I wasn’t going to take any chances w/ cheapo screws.
Found these SS one’s from the UK ata reasonable cost. Lubed threm up & they went right in...surprisingly!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stainless-S....m46890.l49292
This new frame I got, came w/o any DO Screws, so I wasn’t going to take any chances w/ cheapo screws.
Found these SS one’s from the UK ata reasonable cost. Lubed threm up & they went right in...surprisingly!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stainless-S....m46890.l49292
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01-30-21, 04:20 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by madpogue
^^^^ "Easy out" - rarely easy, and often NOT out.
01-30-21, 04:35 PM
#39
tantum vehi
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Originally Posted by 1 Lugnut
I’ve broken off a couple DO Screws in my 40 yrs of wrenching, but managed to remove them w/o too much trouble.
This new frame I got, came w/o any DO Screws, so I wasn’t going to take any chances w/ cheapo screws.
This new frame I got, came w/o any DO Screws, so I wasn’t going to take any chances w/ cheapo screws.
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01-30-21, 05:43 PM
#40
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I broke a dropout screw installed and successfully extracted it by drilling, with my Milwaukee, a hole through the broken and then epoxied a spoke in the recess and was able to twist it
out.
Was I one happy camper.
out.
Was I one happy camper.
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01-30-21, 05:56 PM
#41
Senior Member
Originally Posted by mountaindave
After buying a frame in your situation and then snapping off a new screw in the gunked-up hole, I now re-tap the hole before attempting to screw in an adjustment bolt. Got to use the cutting a slot and to unscrew it method...
Instead, I bought some 3mm machine screws to see if the d/o holes we’re ok to be fitted. With a little tri-flo, they went right without binding up the threads.
They were just temps till the SS srcrews came in the Mail. But thx, worthwhile info for others!
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01-30-21, 06:13 PM
#42
tantum vehi
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So many ways to skin a cat!
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01-30-21, 07:03 PM
#43
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You can buy left hand drill bits that are used for drilling out broken off screws or bolts. You use them with an electric drill turning counter clockwise. I haven't tried them but it sounds like a good idea.
01-30-21, 07:22 PM
#44
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I have had those left-hand drills work for me! Helps if you get it really centered, usually by going clockwise using a center drill (that's the stubby drill with a fine point that was used at the shop in an earlier post).
I refuse to buy easy-outs. I understand that there's probably a bias on the internet toward stories of frustration (when you win, you celebrate, and when you lose, you complain), but it is hard to believe in a technology when "it doesn't work" is 80% of what you hear.
I do wonder if they'd work if you got them all set up right with a milling machine and a centering cone with a tap handle - but if you have the part a milling machine, why not just use an endmill to cut down through the buggered screw at that point?
I refuse to buy easy-outs. I understand that there's probably a bias on the internet toward stories of frustration (when you win, you celebrate, and when you lose, you complain), but it is hard to believe in a technology when "it doesn't work" is 80% of what you hear.
I do wonder if they'd work if you got them all set up right with a milling machine and a centering cone with a tap handle - but if you have the part a milling machine, why not just use an endmill to cut down through the buggered screw at that point?
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Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
01-31-21, 05:19 PM
#45
Senior Member
Well done, glad you got it out so easily!! The worst broken bolt I've had to remove from a frame was a stainless bolt I had stupidly tried to torque into a dropout eyelet before chasing it properly after being powder coated. I broke an extractor as well, which got stuck inside the bolt, it wasn't fun. I eventually drilled it out and chased the threads. I then invested in a set of taps and use them religiously when building up any bike!
This is all that remained of the bolt when it finally came out:
This is all that remained of the bolt when it finally came out:
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01-31-21, 08:34 PM
#46
Junior Member
Originally Posted by 1 Lugnut
I’ve broken off a couple DO Screws in my 40 yrs of wrenching, but managed to remove them w/o too much trouble.
This new frame I got, came w/o any DO Screws, so I wasn’t going to take any chances w/ cheapo screws.
Found these SS one’s from the UK ata reasonable cost. Lubed threm up & they went right in...surprisingly!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stainless-S....m46890.l49292
This new frame I got, came w/o any DO Screws, so I wasn’t going to take any chances w/ cheapo screws.
Found these SS one’s from the UK ata reasonable cost. Lubed threm up & they went right in...surprisingly!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stainless-S....m46890.l49292
Beautiful bike from what I can see of it!
01-31-21, 08:37 PM
#47
Junior Member
Originally Posted by Mr. 66
I broke a dropout screw installed and successfully extracted it by drilling, with my Milwaukee, a hole through the broken and then epoxied a spoke in the recess and was able to twist it
out.
Was I one happy camper.
out.
Was I one happy camper.
01-31-21, 08:43 PM
#48
Junior Member
Originally Posted by Hobbiano
You can buy left hand drill bits that are used for drilling out broken off screws or bolts. You use them with an electric drill turning counter clockwise. I haven't tried them but it sounds like a good idea.
01-31-21, 08:45 PM
#49
Junior Member
Originally Posted by southpawboston
Well done, glad you got it out so easily!! The worst broken bolt I've had to remove from a frame was a stainless bolt I had stupidly tried to torque into a dropout eyelet before chasing it properly after being powder coated. I broke an extractor as well, which got stuck inside the bolt, it wasn't fun. I eventually drilled it out and chased the threads. I then invested in a set of taps and use them religiously when building up any bike!
This is all that remained of the bolt when it finally came out:
This is all that remained of the bolt when it finally came out:
01-31-21, 09:02 PM
#50
Senior Member
Originally Posted by degoydegoy
Beautiful bike from what I can see of it!
Here’s a little more of it. 👀
I’ve sent the fork out 2B chromed. It’ll be a couple weeks before I can finish the build. In the meantime, I went ahead & polished a few parts to enhance the bling 😎 It’s a Swiss Titan frame, but was made in Italy sometime in the 80’s...
Last edited by 1 Lugnut; 01-31-21 at 09:39 PM.
