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Classic and Vintage bikes that didn’t wow

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Classic and Vintage bikes that didn’t wow

Old 10-17-18, 06:11 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by bocobiking View Post
A 1988 50th Anniversary Schwinn Paramount. It always seemed to ride like a tank. I love my 1974 Paramount, but not the '88.

Anyone want to buy the frame and Stronglight headset? 63cm c-to-t.
lets chat, I have a 1973 Paramount that you might love!
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Old 10-17-18, 08:28 AM
  #27  
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A first generation Colnago Master. I ride a 53cm and the bike was too stiff. I still ride a 74 Colnago Super and it's one of my favs, but that Master, after about 30 miles was miserable to be on.
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Old 10-17-18, 08:36 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by mplsbiker View Post


lets chat, I have a 1973 Paramount that you might love!
Thanks, but my stable is already too full 🙂
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Old 10-17-18, 08:46 AM
  #29  
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Like @oddjob2, I also had a Team Fuji that left me feeling cold. It was competent, but it didn't put a smile on my face. I sold it quickly.
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Old 10-17-18, 09:20 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by bocobiking View Post
A 1988 50th Anniversary Schwinn Paramount. It always seemed to ride like a tank. I love my 1974 Paramount, but not the '88.
^this

While I loved the aesthetic of my Waterford built '86 Paramount, it lacked the pop I am accustomed to experiencing with my other lightweights. My '74 Paramount is/was a lot more fun to ride than the '86 and floats in comparison to the heavy feeling ride of the '86



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Old 10-17-18, 09:30 AM
  #31  
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I'm guessing these bikes mentioned in this threads are dogs. They didn't wow. Instead, they bow wow like a dog.

I used to work with this girl a long time ago. She would say something she thought was funny. Then she would laugh and say, "sometimes I crack myself up!"

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Old 10-17-18, 09:48 AM
  #32  
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Bought a Peugeot in the late 60's while in Germany. Rode the bearings off it and sold it in 1973.

PBPeugeot, on Flickr

Bought a 1972 Motobecane Le Champion used. I was lusting after Campagnolo and 531 double butted. Never could get to the same level of pleasure riding it. Lost it in an accident in 2009.

2008-06-01 15.25.53 on Flickr.

The Colnago was a replacement and is a wonderful ride along with the Pinarello Montello.

1983 Colnago Superissimo, on Flickr

CConversion95, on Flickr
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Old 10-17-18, 09:49 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
I'm guessing these bikes mentioned in this threads are dogs. They didn't wow. Instead, they bow wowed like a dog.

I used to work with this girl a long time ago. She would say something she thought was funny. Then she would laugh and say, "sometimes I crack myself up!"
You need one of these
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Old 10-17-18, 09:49 AM
  #34  
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Worst riding bike I’ve encountered so far was a Japanese Paramount. It was a good-looking bike, but had “twitchy” handling. I suppose that might be good for a crit bike, but I just never got comfortable on it. I also had a nice Pinarello Montello that seemed lackluster, though it was comfortable to ride.
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Old 10-17-18, 10:01 AM
  #35  
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On a serious note, which one occurs more often? Is it the bike that totally stands out from the rest and puts a possum grin on your face? Or is it the one that does not wow? We have high expectations for every one we take for a ride.
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Old 10-17-18, 10:03 AM
  #36  
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My Vitus Carbone did not impress me enough when I got it. Just never felt "alive" under me. It wasn't that bad, but it was hardly any different from the Peugeot PSV that I had since 84. Did not help when I got my ALAN Carbonio after it, which turned out to be the best handling bike I ever owned and rode so far........ So I turned the Vitus Carbone Into my weight weenie project mule just to see how light I can get it to keep it interesting. Fortunately, it did improve markedly when I installed my Roval aero wheelset on it, not too long ago, which kinda tells me, one cannot write off a bike right away as it could only be a few mods away from being much better than it initially is.

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Old 10-17-18, 10:04 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Deal4Fuji View Post
You need one of these
Deal, as I remember, you had some type of injury/illness earlier in the year. How's that progressing/healing?
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Old 10-17-18, 10:09 AM
  #38  
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Definitely some high end, championship level sideburns/hair in that photo. Those sideburns are sweet!

Originally Posted by SJX426 View Post
Bought a Peugeot in the late 60's while in Germany. Rode the bearings off it and sold it in 1973.

PBPeugeot, on Flickr

Bought a 1972 Motobecane Le Champion used. I was lusting after Campagnolo and 531 double butted. Never could get to the same level of pleasure riding it. Lost it in an accident in 2009.

2008-06-01 15.25.53 on Flickr.

The Colnago was a replacement and is a wonderful ride along with the Pinarello Montello.

1983 Colnago Superissimo, on Flickr

CConversion95, on Flickr
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Old 10-17-18, 10:27 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Deal, as I remember, you had some type of injury/illness earlier in the year. How's that progressing/healing?
I'm great, thanks. I was off the bike 6 weeks after a 2nd hernia surgery this summer. I didn't follow instructions very well in 2014 and it came back along with a new one, so I pretty much did as instructed this time. I gained 10 lbs during that time but I'm back to pre-surgery strength and have been riding almost every late afternoon with either my bike club or my usual looping route. I've met and ridden with Law @3speedslow in Jacksonville and we're talking about getting more eastern NC forum members together for a ride.
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Old 10-17-18, 10:40 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Bikedud View Post
Second- First generation Trek OCLV carbon fiber (about 1996 or 1997). Spent many miles on a Project One 5200 or 5500 (don't remember which). I was riding a titanium Paramount at the time and the Treks just felt dull and lifeless. It may have been the fancy/horrible Race Lite wheels.
Even worse for me was the aluminum Treks from the 80s. My team had a Trek sponsorship and I never felt right on one. We had team issue 2000s and at first, Trek gave me a 52 which was too small. I complained and they gave me a 54 that was too big. Both rode like tanks. I had a chance to buy the frame for ~$125 at the end of the season and I declined.
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Old 10-17-18, 10:47 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by ridelikeaturtle View Post
I think that, like wine, many of a particular quality will taste the same... and then you get a really nice one and you do go "wow, that's good". For me this is true of tyres, of frames, of groupsets...
^ That's pretty much where I've been, with any bikes I've ridden over the years.

Can't recall ever having been on a truly astounding "classic" bike of any sort.

But, sure enough, as you describe it, I've been on a few that "wowed" me mightily ... but, based on the essentials: very good fit; very good ride quality; everything working well. Good, effective, "basic" utility and comfort counts for a lot, with me. If that can be had with a lighter, more-capable bike with better components, all the better.
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Old 10-17-18, 12:18 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by bocobiking View Post
A 1988 50th Anniversary Schwinn Paramount. It always seemed to ride like a tank. I love my 1974 Paramount, but not the '88. Anyone want to buy the frame and Stronglight headset? 63cm c-to-t.
Originally Posted by rideandgoseek View Post
^this While I loved the aesthetic of my Waterford built '86 Paramount, it lacked the pop I am accustomed to experiencing with my other lightweights. My '74 Paramount is/was a lot more fun to ride than the '86 and floats in comparison to the heavy feeling ride of the '86.
Dagnabbit, guys, why are you saying what I'm saying! 62cm '85 Waterford Paramount here. Beautiful construction. Lovely front end geometry with the longer trail that keeps you going straight when your mind wanders, but man, half the time when out of the saddle, it feels like it resists your rocking back and forth (unless you're on top of the gear). I do get the "tank" feeling, but for me I would describe it as "glued to the ground" in that you could go over the crummiest pavement, especially when putting power down, and it would not become unsettled at all, tracking the ground perfectly like it had a magnet on the wheels. My frameset (frame, fork, and headset) is the second lightest I own at 6.77 lb. Only my '87 Prologue at 6.60 lb is lighter (and that this is perfection). My '74 P15 touring Paramount has always been more springy and playful than my '85. Which is why I'd like to own/ride a P13. I guess it's a logical trade-off: spring and pop for tank/magnet/glued-to-the-road stability.

bocobiking, I'm curious as to what a larger Paramount would feel like as I ride a 63.5cm/25" normally and the 62cm Paramount is just a little small. What's the serial number on it? I know Waterford made a 62cm CTT and a 63.5cm CTT etc, but a 63cm CTT is not known to me.

To those that say Cannondale, I...I feel ya. I'm a big fan of them, and they are extremely competent and composed bikes. Quite the performers as well, but so far my criterium framed bikes lack a standout feature. NONE have felt harsh to me. I keep trying though--just can't quit them! [the ST's have a bit more soul, IMO, and I think that's due to running larger tires and really being able to work the longer frame and larger tires to a 'spring-like' effect. I love the STs.]
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Old 10-17-18, 12:42 PM
  #43  
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Worst Of Both Worlds

Originally Posted by Bikedud View Post
If these can now be considered vintage-

First- Cannondales 3.0 series road bikes with the aluminum fork. Never could abide the geometry or the ride characteristics. Really almost all of the fist generation aluminum road bikes. Unless you were a monster racing crits they were so stiff they beat you to death (except the gorgeous, flexy Vitus's).

Second- First generation Trek OCLV carbon fiber (about 1996 or 1997). Spent many miles on a Project One 5200 or 5500 (don't remember which). I was riding a titanium Paramount at the time and the Treks just felt dull and lifeless. It may have been the fancy/horrible Race Lite wheels.
Originally Posted by Trsnrtr View Post
Even worse for me was the aluminum Treks from the 80s. My team had a Trek sponsorship and I never felt right on one. We had team issue 2000s and at first, Trek gave me a 52 which was too small. I complained and they gave me a 54 that was too big. Both rode like tanks. I had a chance to buy the frame for ~$125 at the end of the season and I declined.
Oh, yeah, try an early Trek AL/CF 2120!

Because I lost a dust cap from a Campagnolo pedal off my LeMond, I pressed a '95 Trek 2120 into service as my beater bike. I had picked it up as corroded as an aluminum/CF mashup can be. I suspect it spent some time under salt water. It cleaned up nicely, and functions within normal parameters. The first generation brifters are why I bought it for $5, and they are easily serviceable and work as designed. (They might be an acceptable "touring" brifter? I'm thinking of putting a pair on my Lotus Odyssey, as I could repair one of these in the field.) The bike fits perfectly, carries a hefty load without complaint, and is absolutely entirely joyless. I don't ever have fun riding it. I can't pin down the source of its soul sucking, and continue to ride it, but after a mile or two, each and every time, I wish I was on another one of my bikes. <sigh emoji> It has a cro-mo stem, oddly, but the aluminum fork still manages to irritate my right shoulder. With an all aluminum bike, both my shoulders demonstrate symptoms of arthritis, which vanishes soon after I switch to a steel rider. The 2120 is a workhorse, I'll give it that, but it's mediocre.

I have no time for mediocrity.

(Unfortunately, with recent weather events, I also haven't had time to transform waiting candidates into "new" beater bikes, and so I dwell in "Mediocre Hell". <sigh emoji>)
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Old 10-17-18, 05:31 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by machinist42 View Post
... a '95 Trek 2120 into service as my beater bike... It has a cro-mo stem, oddly, but the aluminum fork still manages to irritate my right shoulder.
Funny, my Trek 2100 was a very snappy rider. When I got it, it had a couple of things I'd never had before: high-quality rims and tires, barcons, 3x7 shifting which was added by the PO. I'm almost positive it had a Cr-Mo, fork too. It was older than yours; maybe a '92? As it was two sizes too small for me, I eventually parted it out. The only bike I've owned that weighed under 20 lbs.

My only disappointment in the "Legendary Marques" category is my '81 Miata 1000. It's a good bike; as original, maybe even very good, but not great. Its direct competition in my fleet is my more modern '88 Schwinn Voyaguer. Somehow it's an all-around livelier ride which makes me was to just keep riding. In comparison, the Miata just feels a bit dead. I swapped the wheel sets between the two for back to back test riding - I've done this three times - and the Schwinn always comes out on top. They are as close in weight as can be: 26.94 lbs vs 26.98 lbs, on my scale. I'm guessing the more solid feeling Miata would be more stable as a loaded tourer, but the Voyageur wins in the sportier riding outings.

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Old 10-17-18, 05:54 PM
  #45  
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I had a Cannondale Black Lightning. It rode like a 2 by 4.
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Old 10-17-18, 06:23 PM
  #46  
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I've never owned a paramount but have ridden a few back in the late seventies. I was not impressed at all. Compared to the Trek I was riding at the time they felt sluggish and heavy. The TX 900 was just a better bike in every way.
I would like to try one again though.
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Old 10-17-18, 06:55 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Bikedud View Post
...First generation Trek OCLV carbon fiber (about 1996 or 1997). Spent many miles on a Project One 5200 or 5500 (don't remember which). I was riding a titanium Paramount at the time and the Treks just felt dull and lifeless. It may have been the fancy/horrible Race Lite wheels.
I had the same experience, but in my case it definitely wasn't the wheels, a pair of Campy Neutrinos that I have enjoyed on two subsequent bikes. It definitely put me off of carbon bikes for a while. In fact I still haven't ever bought one. On the other hand I'm thrilled with my (off-topic) aluminum Rock Lobster with carbon fork and carbon seat stays:


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Old 10-17-18, 07:02 PM
  #48  
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My first real road bike was a Schwinn Tempo made from Columbus Tenax. I never really got comfortable on that bike. Probably switching to tubular tires would have helped. I never could understand why people lose their lunches over the pre-Waterford Schwinn Paramounts - not like those things had spectacular build quality. They're chrome with Nervex lugs. So what? Is the ride more magical than what the Italians were building at the time?

As for traditional C&V - I have an '82 Trek 614 that feels a little too slack and a little too floppy. Its stable mate the 710 is better, but that may be due to switching out the stock 531 fork for a Tange CrMo fork.

I once had a PX-10 and wasn't thrilled with the handling (slow) or with the French idiosyncrasies.

I don't have the same negative experiences with the Cinelli Supercorsa that many of you have had. Mine was built (from Neuron tubing) by Losa in 2007. Probably helps that the bike has a Columbus carbon fork and threadless stem setup. It goes where you point it with a pretty decent degree of comfort, and it doesn't pound you to death during long rides.
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Old 10-17-18, 08:24 PM
  #49  
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In my four decades of riding, although with relatively few nice bikes, two were decidedly not keepers.

The ‘76 California Masi Gran Criterium in a tall but steep-angled 65cm frame, a birthday present from my wife, was fabulous on flats and rollers, but it was a scary descender on steep hills, which we’ve got lots of here in the PNW. Felt I could never trust it. Surprising, since the 60cm ‘72 Italian GC I had in my brief racing days was absolutely confident in every situation, just a bit too small.



I sold the ‘76 GC and replaced it with a 2003 Rivendell Rambouillet that was certainly a very solid descender but maybe a bit too solid everywhere else, at least for me that’s all spin, no mashing. I tried very hard to love that one for 10 years, but resurrecting my ‘79 Miyata 912 with modern components, then the arrival of the ‘87 SLX Marinoni very similarly equipped (as were all three for a year), showed that the Riv should go to a more appreciative home.





The bike that that I did love for more than 10 years and over 35,000 mileswas my ‘92 Klein Performance. That bike worked fabulously in fast group rides, many centuries, and three significant long tours including several trips to Europe. No, it has none of the build weirdness that @RobbieTunes found in his earlier version, but it always seemed much better on smooth pavement, even with an after-market CF fork, and it became too small as I lost flexibility in my late 50’s. Wish I’d known about good fatter tires at lower pressures back then. But my adult son is still enjoying it, until his wife can find that perfect orange-colored classic lugged 61-62cm frame as a surprise present for him.


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Old 10-17-18, 09:35 PM
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