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trek 400?

Old 06-22-05, 08:18 AM
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trek 400?

Found one here in NY for $200 . I've always heard great things about vintage Treks, and this one's my size. Anyone give me advice on what to look for and whether or not this is a good price? What's so special about them, anyway?

thanks,

max
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Old 06-22-05, 08:28 AM
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Personally I think its a bit steep for a 400. You can probably
do better with a bit of patience.
What year? (serial number?)
components?
it would help when assessing if it truely is a good deal (i.e. frame may not be
all that great but if original owner kitted it with full campy Super Record it's
a deal).

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Old 06-22-05, 09:16 AM
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Thanks for the info; only thing is that here in NYC, people tend to be pretty competitive about anything of nice quality. Prices tend to get inflated, even on the used market. I'll try and find out the serial #, year and components from the guy.


max

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Old 06-22-05, 11:17 AM
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I love my 460! It was going for 75.00 but came down to 35.00. Replaced tires, tubes, tape, pump and that was it. Frame and geometry is perfect....fits like a glove.

Even if you pay a bit more it's still a decent bike. The 400 series were not a compromise on quality, they still used good componentry. Mine has Suntour Cyclone group and DiaCompe brakes.



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Old 06-22-05, 05:15 PM
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There's a guy in the local hooligan roadie group that has been riding a 400 elance since 1986 (and he bought it used!). He still hammers us almost 20 years later and only the saddle, chain and tires are replacements. Well, maybe the bar tape, but probably not...
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Old 06-22-05, 05:32 PM
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Not a bad price for NYC on a nice bike... They go for around $100-$150 here in Denver.
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Old 06-22-05, 09:41 PM
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Yeah, that's kind of what I figured. All you out there in the world of the real bike economy can have the benefit of know-nothings selling their bikes in less competitive markets. I'm going to check it out, then see if he'll maybe take a bit less for it. One thing is that he's out on Long Island, so getting anyone to actually come and take a look is a pain for him--I have that going for me. Anyone tell me what I should look for in terms of componentry, etc, and where to find the serial no/year of the actual model? Specific steel brand, also?

Thanks for the input,

max

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Old 06-22-05, 09:53 PM
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Is this it? https://www.vintage-trek.com/TrekBrochure1983Part1.htm
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Old 06-22-05, 10:00 PM
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Vintage-trek.com can help you figure out year based on serial number. The most desirable of the 400 series had Campy components, but I've also seen them with Suntour Cyclone M II, which is IMO a vastly undervalued group - really good performance! All the older steel Treks (prior to maybe 1986) were built with good to very good tubing - msotly Reynolds 531 or 501, but occasionally Ishiwata 022 or some variety of Tange (often Tange 900), and very occasionally Columbus. I've ridden a handful of 400-series bikes from 83 to 86, and I've liked them all

What's special about them is that prior to about mid-1985, they were all handbuilt, and they've generally got comfy, nimble geometries - you'd pay a lot more for such attributes in a modern bike!
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Old 06-23-05, 05:23 AM
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offhand, I'd say if it's got true temper tubing (likely on a 400), talk him down. Half that is reasonable, unless the bike is in excellent condition or overdressed component-wise. The Ishiwata is very nice stuff, but undervalued, where Columbus and Reynolds somewhat inflate the bike's value.

"All you out there in the world of the real bike economy can have the benefit of know-nothings selling their bikes in less competitive markets."

Heh-heh-heh. That's what you get living in an overheated market. I've said this before, but I am constantly surprised at the incredible geographic variation in used bike prices. The pre-84 Treks are special, but the 400 model is likely mid-late eighties.
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Old 06-23-05, 08:27 AM
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Hey everyone, thanks a lot for the great info. If anything, I am anxious to get a look at the bike. I'm going to give it a thorough inspection and then pass it on.

By the way, here's a link with a couple of very poor pics:

https://newyork.craigslist.org/que/bik/79963811.html

I'm thinking that the brand on the downtube, rather than the seattube indicates something about it's actual vintage.

thanks,

max

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Old 06-23-05, 10:08 AM
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It's a 1985 based on the decals.
1984 decals included the model number on the downtube.
1985 decals only had the name TREK with the shadow font (not
sure of name) and the model number on the chainstay protector.
1986 the model changed to the Elance 400D and Elance 400T
1984 decal:

1985 decal:

images courtesy VintageTrek.

Marty

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Old 06-24-05, 07:22 PM
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Hi all. Just looked at/rode the Trek. I read the serial numbers and came and checked the vintage-trek site, and it looks like it was an '85 Trek 460. There was '400' on the chainstay cover, but the derailer cable was routed through the chainstay (nice touch)--as the vintage-trek site indicates was done to 460s. The paint had a little swishy cursive '400 series' on the top tube. Veeeery nice ride, though not as light as I had thought it would be. I think a wheel upgrade would improve that situation. It had Shimano components, though--no Campy. I offered him $140, but he wasn't biting.

Serial #, by the way, was 168409.

Kind of regretting not buying the thing, because it just rode so nicely.

Someone tell me I didn't make a mistake. Someone...?

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Old 06-24-05, 07:52 PM
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suprising he didn't even go down on price, another reason why stuff in ny can seem spendy at first every one is a haggler, I used to sell guitars at the nyc show and I'd mark everything 2x what I'd normally sell it for, people never bought the stuff when I was selling it cheap,

I just spent over $300 on an old specialized touring bike I was looking around at frame prices and even if I went with the cheapest parts I'd never match the price. and now I have a really nice old bike instead of a cheap new one,

NY craigslist has ridiculous prices but people must pay or come close to paying them, but the price for new bikes in the city is so inflated by the high sales tax as well as the double taxation faced by business owners that to get a bike that's ridable now that I can pay for and maybe talk the guy down on will force more people to go the slightly cheaper route,

if you are looking for an older trek maybe print out a cheat sheat from vintage treks site so if you can't get to a computer you can double check the info,

sucks you went out to see it and he wouldn't play ball, but worst case you ride it for a few months then sell it for the same or a few bucks more,

what size was the frame?
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Old 06-24-05, 08:28 PM
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Size was 21"/22". According to what I saw on the vintage-trek site, the serial no. indicated it was 21", but it seemed a lot bigger than that. Fit me quite nicely though.

Yeah, I was kind of bewildered at the fact that he didn't even try to counter-offer. He gave me a spiele about having four other potential takers, but still, he had come to Brooklyn--from Long Island--with his lady and a couple of bikes in the back of his SUV. He also tried to make me feel obligated since he had driven 'for delivery,' but I didn't ask him to do that: someone else did, who obviously hadn't bought the other bike (a crappy Raleigh). So I was thinking he might at least try and go down a little bit, considering that he had driven this whole way and not yet made any money, and it's Friday night and he probably won't be selling anything else tonight. And the other thing is that he's in Long Island--not a lot of NYers actually go to Long Island just to maybe buy a used bike at an inflated price. I told him to let me know if he was still trying to sell it, but he seemed pretty confident that he'd sell it. We'll see how his four potentials work out. Thing is, with three bikes in the stable right now, I just couldn't justify a not-great deal.

And the thing wasn't even running great--I'd have to fix the brakes, probably true the wheels, maybe replace the tires, blah blah blah.

But that puppy sure did ride nicely--MAN!

Lt. Gustl, you're right, prices in this city are ridiculous--for everyone.

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Old 06-24-05, 08:53 PM
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at least you didn't have to make the trip to wrong island, odd that he didn't budge even a token amount, sounds like he does it alot and will get the price eventually, it's hard to fault people for reselling old bikes for profit that would otherwise be tossed in a landfill, scrapped, or just bought by another suburbanite that would let it lie unused for an indeterminate time, but you can't praise them when they sell things at inflated inflexable prices just because they can in a market like nyc which is one of the few places where bicycles are used as transportation by a large amount of people,

at least now you don't have to worry about it getting stolen,

there were plenty of those made and another is bound to show up,
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Old 06-25-05, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by peripatetic


Hi all. Just looked at/rode the Trek. I read the serial numbers and came and checked the vintage-trek site, and it looks like it was an '85 Trek 460. There was '400' on the chainstay cover, but the derailer cable was routed through the chainstay (nice touch)--as the vintage-trek site indicates was done to 460s. The paint had a little swishy cursive '400 series' on the top tube. Veeeery nice ride, though not as light as I had thought it would be. I think a wheel upgrade would improve that situation. It had Shimano components, though--no Campy. I offered him $140, but he wasn't biting.

Serial #, by the way, was 168409.

Kind of regretting not buying the thing, because it just rode so nicely.

Someone tell me I didn't make a mistake. Someone...?




Do you recall seeing "460" designation decal on the chainstays? My '85 460 has them and yes, you are correct about the rear changer cable going through the chainstay (a nifty little trick). Stay with the deal because he may not be able to sell it for his asking price. The ride the 460 gives is really nice. It was Trek's entry level road racer that year.

I'd really question the shimano components. My bike is completely factory stock and has the Suntour Cyclone shift group and DiaCompe brakes. Maybe the owner has changed out the derailleurs?



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Old 06-25-05, 09:09 AM
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I don't think that the Shimano components were swapped out by this guy: I think he's a second or third or fourth owner. He didn't even have the brakes centered and adjusted, and seemed to know pretty little about what he had (didn't even try to sell it much, and obviously didn't realize that it wasn't actually a 400.)

I'll wait and see, maybe I'll get an e-mail from him in the next few days, but I kind of doubt it. I think enough people know the Trek name without actually knowing much about the bikes/models, and I think that there's always someone here in NYC who doesn't care that much about the price.

We'll see.

Meantime, I'll go looking for another.

Thanks for the support--it was hard to hold firm!

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Old 06-25-05, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by peripatetic


I don't think that the Shimano components were swapped out by this guy: I think he's a second or third or fourth owner. He didn't even have the brakes centered and adjusted, and seemed to know pretty little about what he had (didn't even try to sell it much, and obviously didn't realize that it wasn't actually a 400.)

I'll wait and see, maybe I'll get an e-mail from him in the next few days, but I kind of doubt it. I think enough people know the Trek name without actually knowing much about the bikes/models, and I think that there's always someone here in NYC who doesn't care that much about the price.

We'll see.

Meantime, I'll go looking for another.

Thanks for the support--it was hard to hold firm!




On another note, I'd forgotten to mention that I saw a 400 (85) over at ebay. It was the patriotic model with red, white and blue theme?? Bids were very low with no reserve at the time of viewing. I think the bid line was like 79.00.

You will find what you want depending on luck and patience



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Old 06-27-05, 09:01 AM
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168409 was serialized 1/10/85. In all probability the bike
was brazed late 84 and got the new decal set.
21 inch frame. They were nice bikes.

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Old 06-27-05, 11:57 PM
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Quick update for those who were following this thread: dude has not sold the bike and has re-posted on CList. Didn't re-contact for a potential sale. I'm thinking he's either insulted that I tried to talk him down, or just didn't take me very seriously, or he's just not a very natural salesman. But it kind of eats at me that that purty ride is just sitting around in his garage or backyard in Long Island rusting, gathering dust and not even being spiffed up (the brakes weren't even centered, and he had done that old man thing of twisting the handlebars all the way up in the stem so that the levers were facing the sky!!) Arg. Can't decide if I should send him another offer or not.

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Old 06-28-05, 06:54 AM
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You might discreetly remind him that your offer stands - and wait to see if he's any softer...
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Old 06-28-05, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by peripatetic


and he had done that old man thing of twisting the handlebars all the way up in the stem so that the levers were facing the sky!!)




Why that's utter blasphemy

Well, that should let you know what you are dealing with. Someone probably told him what they thought it was worth and he is sticking to it because it doesnt cost him anything to keep it.

Tell ya what, you just be patient and keep looking because it's a big, bikin' world out there. There is a nice one just waiting for you to find it.

Persistence is the best tool in the box!




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Old 08-28-05, 11:03 PM
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anything ever happen with this bike?

fwiw I paid $200 (talked down from $225) for a 1986 Trek 500, in Manhattan on CL. I saw it the first day it was posted, hit the ATM, test rode it in the hallway outside the dude's apt and made the deal jiffy quick.

Mine was 99% original (missing toe clips and straps, and the bar tape was shot) and just needed new tires. The front rim had a blip but I didn't let that stop me as I had a spare front wheel at home. Turns out I straightened it out and it trued up well enough for the slow and steady rides I am using it for. A few months later it turns out the chainrings were bent, as was the rear axle - two shops have told me it isn't bent but it feels funky. I'll probably put new chainrings on if I ever change out the back wheel to a more modern cassette, with chain to match.

Point is, I knew $200 was kinda steep for mine even in pretty nice condition, but that's NYC. It was in a nice small size with a decent length top tube, which I prefer. I knew that wouldn't last with all the women who ride in NYC so I grabbed it.....I am glad I did. Not sure if I will always keep it with a new bike or two in the stable but I think I will after some really pleasant rides on that thing. Mine is friction shift 12 speed, Shimano 600 and sr crank, Reynolds 531 main tubes and tange stays and fork.
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Old 06-19-06, 03:35 PM
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I just found a 84 trek 400 for sale. Does anyone know if the bike has horizontal dropouts? Any thoughts on whether this bike would make a good single speed?
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