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1st CV question

Old 11-04-18, 08:23 PM
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1st CV question

Iím looking for a SunTour Cyclone GT, rear derailleur, 1976 model, for a Raleigh Supercourse Iím building up. Itís the long cage version. Missed out on one awhile ago, should have bid higher. My question is, can I just pick up a short cage model of the same vintage, which seem more abundant, and replace the cage with one from say a VX GT, long cage model? Or, is there more to it then that?
Thanks, Tim
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Old 11-04-18, 08:50 PM
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It depends.

Look at the attachment points- some mount the cages in different locations. There were different iterations of different derailleurs.

Here's one of my attempts at it:

The Golden Boy's 3 Pulley Project
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Old 11-04-18, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by tkamd73 View Post
I’m looking for a SunTour Cyclone GT, rear derailleur, 1976 model, for a Raleigh Supercourse I’m building up. It’s the long cage version. Missed out on one awhile ago, should have bid higher. My question is, can I just pick up a short cage model of the same vintage, which seem more abundant, and replace the cage with one from say a VX GT, long cage model? Or, is there more to it then that?
Thanks, Tim
​​​​​​No. Several of the specs are different. The cages don't swap between them.
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Old 11-04-18, 09:33 PM
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Not quite sure I understand the question, but I recently built a Super Course with a VGT Luxe in back and a Cyclone II in front with a Megarange 34t 6 speed and a Sugino AT 32/40/50 triple. It all works great together with Suntour bar ends. My first ever build, and I'm very happy with this combination.

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Old 11-04-18, 10:02 PM
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Thanks guys,
@The Golden Boy, I admire your ingenuity, I was tempted to just go for it, as the main body of both derailleur look identical.

@jimmuller, I realize the cages have different attachment points, plus I’m sure spring rates are different, plus you sound pretty positive, so I’m not wasting the money on two derailleurs.
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Old 11-04-18, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Slightspeed View Post
Not quite sure I understand the question, but I recently built a Super Course with a VGT Luxe in back and a Cyclone II in front with a Megarange 34t 6 speed and a Sugino AT 32/40/50 triple. It all works great together with Suntour bar ends. My first ever build, and I'm very happy with this combination.

@Slightspeed, I was admiring your supercourse build on another thread. Pretty much going for a similiar bulld, except mine is a 78, not as nice lugwork as yours, but came equipped with the first cyclone derailleur, which I am trying to source. I realize that the V GT Lux, or VX GT will work just fine, and I may end up going that route. Iím substituting a Superbe FD for the original Compe V. I am having frame repainted in dark green, and after seeing yours, quite happy about that. Thanks for the inspiration. Tim

78 Supercourse frame just prior to paint strip
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Old 11-04-18, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by tkamd73 View Post

@Slightspeed, I was admiring your supercourse build on another thread. Pretty much going for a similiar bulld, except mine is a 78, not as nice lugwork as yours, but came equipped with the first cyclone derailleur, which I am trying to source. I realize that the V GT Lux, or VX GT will work just fine, and I may end up going that route. Iím substituting a Superbe FD for the original Compe V. I am having frame repainted in dark green, and after seeing yours, quite happy about that. Thanks for the inspiration. Tim

78 Supercourse frame just prior to paint strip
Compared to mine, your frame looks great. Mine had a cracked braze at the upper seat tube junction, and some fiixie guy had removed the cable guides, so re-paint was never a question. I like gold bikes, and didn't know SC came in that color. I just found a gold Peugeot in great shape which cost less than the paint on my Raleigh. Have fun with yours. Heres a gold Competition I saw on a recent ride.


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Old 11-05-18, 02:09 AM
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Not all the same....

There are undocumented difference in the look alike Suntour RDs.

I recently overhauled this Raleigh badged Suntour VGT derailleur. Besides the cheap, black unchromed pivot bolts there were a number of differences between this one and a standard VGT.



The upper pulley mounts on the lower pivot shaft which was soft and hjad worn over .5mm in diameter. This let the pulley wobble side to side which made for unpredictable shifting. One of the chrome plated pivots on a "real" VGT wouldn't have worn like that. I used a prick punch to make indentations in the shaft to bring it back to size. Now it shifts correctly.

I also replaced the upper pivot/mounting bolt with one from a standard VG because it has a thin locknut for the inside of the dropout to secure the bolt. The original one didn't have that feature. It used shims for clearance between the RD and the dropout and was either to tight or loosened in use.



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Old 11-05-18, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by verktyg View Post
There are undocumented difference in the look alike Suntour RDs.

I recently overhauled this Raleigh badged Suntour VGT derailleur. Besides the cheap, black unchromed pivot bolts there were a number of differences between this one and a standard VGT.



The upper pulley mounts on the lower pivot shaft which was soft and hjad worn over .5mm in diameter. This let the pulley wobble side to side which made for unpredictable shifting. One of the chrome plated pivots on a "real" VGT wouldn't have worn like that. I used a prick punch to make indentations in the shaft to bring it back to size. Now it shifts correctly.

I also replaced the upper pivot/mounting bolt with one from a standard VG because it has a thin locknut for the inside of the dropout to secure the bolt. The original one didn't have that feature. It used shims for clearance between the RD and the dropout and was either to tight or loosened in use.



verktyg
Clearly Raleigh (and others) that branded ST derailleurs had a price point to hit, and Sun Tour figured out how to do it with cheaper parts. It would be interesting to find out all of the marques Sun Tour made derailleurs for. I know that Fuji did this as well.
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Old 11-05-18, 05:50 PM
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Well, that would explain why my Raleigh branded VGT derailleur shifts like crap compared to my Cyclone. Thanks for the input verktyg, I'll have to investigate.
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Old 11-06-18, 04:07 AM
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Bike Maker badged Suntour derailleurs

Originally Posted by gugie View Post
Clearly Raleigh (and others) that branded ST derailleurs had a price point to hit, and Sun Tour figured out how to do it with cheaper parts. It would be interesting to find out all of the marques Sun Tour made derailleurs for. I know that Fuji did this as well.
Seems I've seen other badged Suntour derailleurs but I can't think of what bike brand. Motobecane used a lot of Suntour components but I never saw any of them private labeled. SR which merged with Suntour made Moto badged cranks and maybe bars and stems.

As far as price point.... in 1973-74 Suntour V RDs retailed for ~$6.00 and the GTs for $7.00-$8.00!

Back then, you could buy a VW Beetle for $1950 and a cheap Chevy for $2300!

$500 FOR A BICYCLE? You must be outa yer tree!

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Old 11-06-18, 04:42 AM
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Fuji! oops. Gugie got it.
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Old 11-06-18, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by verktyg View Post
Seems I've seen other badged Suntour derailleurs but I can't think of what bike brand. Motobecane used a lot of Suntour components but I never saw any of them private labeled. SR which merged with Suntour made Moto badged cranks and maybe bars and stems.

As far as price point.... in 1973-74 Suntour V RDs retailed for ~$6.00 and the GTs for $7.00-$8.00!

Back then, you could buy a VW Beetle for $1950 and a cheap Chevy for $2300!

$500 FOR A BICYCLE? You must be outa yer tree!

verktyg
I seem to remember Motobecane branded Suntour stem shifters- or maybe Iím thinking a decal- on the stem clamp.
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Old 11-06-18, 07:26 AM
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Moto badged Suntour stem shifters

Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
I seem to remember Motobecane branded Suntour stem shifters- or maybe Iím thinking a decal- on the stem clamp.
BINGO! Bike Boom, maybe 1974-75?



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Old 11-06-18, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Slightspeed View Post
Compared to mine, your frame looks great. Mine had a cracked braze at the upper seat tube junction, and some fiixie guy had removed the cable guides, so re-paint was never a question. I like gold bikes, and didn't know SC came in that color. I just found a gold Peugeot in great shape which cost less than the paint on my Raleigh. Have fun with yours. Heres a gold Competition I saw on a recent ride.

Thatís a nice Raleigh Competition, still not a fan of the gold though. No real issues with my frame, actually itís an nos frame that has never been built up. The frame came from Wareís Cycles, large shop on Milwaukeeís NW side, closed in the 80s I think. It was ordered as a warranty repair, and never used. A former employee had it in his basement all these years, until he sold it to me. Supercoures were painted gold in 77 thru 79. Looking forward to getting it built up, but half the fun is the journey.
Thanks, Tim
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Old 11-06-18, 10:32 AM
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Currently running a cyclone ii long cage on my modern bob jackson. With a 7 speed freewheel and barcons it shifts like dream.
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Old 11-06-18, 11:15 AM
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The V GT Luxe and the Vx GT are my favorite friction shifting long cage rear derailleurs. They are much more affordable than Cyclone GT, durable, good looking. IMHO, they are a perfect choice for a vintage touring build (again, pre-index shifting). Lighter than the V GT, and still has the open cage design.




SunTour V GT Luxe derailleur (1500)
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Old 11-06-18, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
Clearly Raleigh (and others) that branded ST derailleurs had a price point to hit, and Sun Tour figured out how to do it with cheaper parts. It would be interesting to find out all of the marques Sun Tour made derailleurs for. I know that Fuji did this as well.
Thanks for the info, Raleigh branded ones off the table.
Tim
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Old 11-06-18, 02:01 PM
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Not a Competition

Originally Posted by Slightspeed View Post
Compared to mine, your frame looks great. Mine had a cracked braze at the upper seat tube junction, and some fiixie guy had removed the cable guides, so re-paint was never a question. I like gold bikes, and didn't know SC came in that color. I just found a gold Peugeot in great shape which cost less than the paint on my Raleigh. Have fun with yours. Heres a gold Competition I saw on a recent ride.

Slightspeed, the bike pictured ^ ^ ^ isn't a Competition. It's a custom built frame from Raleigh's SBDU shop in Ilkeston, UK where they made the team bikes and special order frames. It has Campy 1010A dropouts so it's probably from about 1975-77. Since these were custom built you could order lots on non standard features

This shows some variation from a 1980 flyer.




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Old 11-06-18, 02:37 PM
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If you're still looking for a Cyclone GT I have one I'd trade for the short cage version.
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Old 11-06-18, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
The V GT Luxe and the Vx GT are my favorite friction shifting long cage rear derailleurs. They are much more affordable than Cyclone GT, durable, good looking. IMHO, they are a perfect choice for a vintage touring build (again, pre-index shifting). Lighter than the V GT, and still has the open cage design.




SunTour V GT Luxe derailleur (1500)
I have one of those as well. It also kicks ass.
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