Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

G. Bianchi MYSTERY??? Who's Giuseppe Bianchi???

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

G. Bianchi MYSTERY??? Who's Giuseppe Bianchi???

Old 11-17-18, 11:13 AM
  #1  
MDNA
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
G. Bianchi ďArgentin ImposterĒ Build

I created a profile for this website so I could get some answers.

Craigslist find, $200, only Identifiers are "G.bianchi" on the seat stay caps, Cinelli bottom bracket, fleur de lis on the fork crown, scratched off columbus decal (cant make out what model), and when I look at the bottom bottom tube there is a faded outline of a rubbed off decal that says "Giuseppe Bianchi" and then "Firenzi" underneath that. Drop outs are campagnolo, chromed drive side chain stay

Google researching shows maybe two bikes on velobase that are G. Bianchi but of a different era (1950s-60s), this bike looks more to be of the late 70s and early 80s and with presumed columbus tubing. Further Im fairly positive that a bike with a cinelli BB and campy drops would not be built up with junk columbus tubing.

Any thoughts on the history of this bike? Where it came from? Relationship to Eduordo Bianchi? Can anyone link any other bikes from the same brand/era? Is this a rare find or a piece of junk?

Last edited by MDNA; 11-26-18 at 09:06 AM. Reason: Thread title change
MDNA is offline  
Old 11-17-18, 11:15 AM
  #2  
MDNA
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
So I need to post 10 times for me to post pics, so im just going to keep posting her until they let me, scroll down to see pics
MDNA is offline  
Old 11-17-18, 03:40 PM
  #3  
juvela
Senior Member
 
juvela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 12,030
Mentioned: 338 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2928 Post(s)
Liked 1,551 Times in 1,125 Posts
-----

At least some of these were Rizzato products...

1960's Bianchi - CL Ad

What did I buy? Giuseppe Bianchi of Firenze?

Need Help Identifying 1970's Italian Road Bike

https://lebicidiema.weebly.com/giuse...chi-sport.html

shall look forward to the images...

-----
juvela is offline  
Old 11-18-18, 08:32 AM
  #4  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 22,975
Mentioned: 621 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4581 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2,745 Times in 1,728 Posts
The subject is frame no older than mid-1980s based on the post Portacatena dropout in conjunction with a front derailleur tab. The single set of bottle bosses and absence of a pump peg suggests it is full Columbus SL at best. Most of the components are a frankenbike mix of mid to late 1980s, mid-range components, with the exception of the modern S/S wheelset, so they're not much help. The component most likely to be OEM is the headset, which is 1984-1987 Shimano New 600EX and would support a mid-range tubeset. Clues to the tubeset grade would be the seat post diameter and the absence of presence of helical ridges inside the bottom of the fork's steerer tube. Alternately, the OP could remove the fork and check for the Columbus logo on the outside of the steerer tube. Selective photo assist...




Last edited by T-Mar; 11-18-18 at 08:41 AM.
T-Mar is offline  
Old 11-18-18, 03:36 PM
  #5  
MDNA
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks T-Mar for posting those pics, how were you able to do that? And thanks for the input as well
In any case I'm currently allowed to post 5 posts per day, so will have to wait another day to post pics, unless I could get some help posting again
I've stripped the bike to its bare tubing (will post pics when I can), weighed the frame and it came in at approx. 1850 grams, fork with the race still on at 695 grams, there are no helical ridges which I think rule out SLX, but my running guess is SL based on weight and era, any thoughts on the brand name?
MDNA is offline  
Old 11-18-18, 04:08 PM
  #6  
MDNA
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
T-mar or anyone else, if you can pic assist for now, let me know how I can get the pics to you, thanks in advance.
MDNA is offline  
Old 11-19-18, 06:47 AM
  #7  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 22,975
Mentioned: 621 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4581 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2,745 Times in 1,728 Posts
I didn't think that it was SLX but the lack helical ridges in the steerer tube would also indicate that it is not full SL. Tretubi SL is a possibility but given the apparent era, I would think that something like Cromor is more probable. However, given the era and lower prestige brand, it could also be another brand of tubing, like Oria. Since you have removed the paint, you may be able to verify that it is Columbus. Carefully examine the outside of the bottom end of the seat tube. Columbus seat tubes were single butted and they stamped the butted end with their dove logo, so that framebuilders could easily identify the butted end and reduce the probability of installing the seat tube upside down.

IMO, it's impractical to try and determine the tubeset based on weight, as the frame weight is highly dependent on that of the lugset, BB shell and fittings, whose own weight can vary significantly.

Pic assist...



T-Mar is offline  
Old 11-19-18, 05:59 PM
  #8  
MDNA
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
So I took a look at the steer tube and definitely see the rifling that is consistent with Columbus tubing. However looking at the bottom of the seat tube as it goes into the bottom bracket shell I do not see any stamp work that shows Columbus tubing.

The seat tube diameter is 27.2 mm, with the outer diameter being 28.6mm.

Iím still a bit confused as to why using the tube set Whates would be an in accurate way to determine the to set type. I realize that the lugs, fork crown, as well as the bottom bracket shell and drop outs are additive to the final weight of the frame, but at roughly 2550 g (~5.5 lbs), I find it hard to believe that this frame isnít something closer to sl tubing vs Cromor. Even with rather expensive lugs, BB, drops,etc, youíd probably be looking at about 600 grams in extra steel whclich drops the tube set of this frame to sub 2kg, which seems closer to the SL set than Cromor.

also this frame isnít any newer than mid 80s, it was my understanding that cromor (matrix) didnít come out until late 80s-early 90s

more pics below
MDNA is offline  
Old 11-19-18, 06:08 PM
  #9  
MDNA
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts








MDNA is offline  
Old 11-19-18, 06:09 PM
  #10  
MDNA
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts


MDNA is offline  
Old 11-20-18, 06:28 AM
  #11  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 22,975
Mentioned: 621 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4581 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2,745 Times in 1,728 Posts
^^^I can see the helical ridges in the steerer tube. These, in conjunction with the 27.2mm seat post and absence of helical ridges in the main tubes, are indicative of a full Columbus SL tubeset..

Regarding weights, those of the lugset, shell and fittings can vary more than the difference between SL and Cromor. Consequently, weights are not a reliable indicator of identifying tubesets. For instance, I've got two full Columbus SL frames, both the same size, where the weight difference is 287g (not including the forks). With a diligent search you could probably find variance of close to 400g.

Cromor is definitely old enough to have been a consideration for this frame. Cromor was originally named Matrix, which was introduced for the 1986 model year. It was renamed Cromor during 1987, as a result of a trademark infringement on Trek's Matrix rims.
T-Mar is offline  
Old 11-20-18, 09:07 AM
  #12  
Kevindale
Senior Member
 
Kevindale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 1,684

Bikes: 1980 Koga-Miyata Gentsluxe-S, 1998 Eddy Merckx Corsa 01, 1983 Tommasini Racing, 2012 Gulf Western CAAD10, 1980 Univega Gran Premio

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 600 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
The subject is frame no older than mid-1980s based on the post Portacatena dropout in conjunction with a front derailleur tab. The single set of bottle bosses and absence of a pump peg suggests it is full Columbus SL at best. Most of the components are a frankenbike mix of mid to late 1980s, mid-range components, with the exception of the modern S/S wheelset, so they're not much help. The component most likely to be OEM is the headset, which is 1984-1987 Shimano New 600EX and would support a mid-range tubeset. Clues to the tubeset grade would be the seat post diameter and the absence of presence of helical ridges inside the bottom of the fork's steerer tube. Alternately, the OP could remove the fork and check for the Columbus logo on the outside of the steerer tube. Selective photo assist...
Can you elaborate more on this (the part I bolded)? I think I'm misreading it, but it sounds like you're saying that SL wouldn't have a pump peg or 2 sets of bottle bosses, while SLX might. Or are you saying that by the time SLX was being used, 2 sets of bottle bosses and pump pegs were very common?
Kevindale is offline  
Old 11-20-18, 12:57 PM
  #13  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 22,975
Mentioned: 621 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4581 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2,745 Times in 1,728 Posts
Originally Posted by Kevindale View Post
Can you elaborate more on this (the part I bolded)? I think I'm misreading it, but it sounds like you're saying that SL wouldn't have a pump peg or 2 sets of bottle bosses, while SLX might. Or are you saying that by the time SLX was being used, 2 sets of bottle bosses and pump pegs were very common?

Columbus introduced SLX/SPX at the same time that competition frames started to feature a 2nd set of bottle bosses and pump pegs were revived. Initially, these features were generally found only on top models, which, if Columbus, were typically SLX/SPX. Consequently, these features were very common, even on early SLX frames, whereas they typically trickled down to lesser grade framesets, Another feature, which I forgot to mention and can be out into the same category, was the bridgeless bottom bracket.
T-Mar is offline  
Old 11-20-18, 02:43 PM
  #14  
Kevindale
Senior Member
 
Kevindale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 1,684

Bikes: 1980 Koga-Miyata Gentsluxe-S, 1998 Eddy Merckx Corsa 01, 1983 Tommasini Racing, 2012 Gulf Western CAAD10, 1980 Univega Gran Premio

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 600 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
Columbus introduced SLX/SPX at the same time that competition frames started to feature a 2nd set of bottle bosses and pump pegs were revived. Initially, these features were generally found only on top models, which, if Columbus, were typically SLX/SPX. Consequently, these features were very common, even on early SLX frames, whereas they typically trickled down to lesser grade framesets, Another feature, which I forgot to mention and can be out into the same category, was the bridgeless bottom bracket.
Thanks, as always.

To the OP, I like the way that frame looks now that you've stripped the paint. I'd be tempted to put some contrasting paint into the embossing (red or black or something that will match your favorite bar tape), maybe put on a couple of decals if you can find some appropriate ones, and clear coat it.
Kevindale is offline  
Old 11-20-18, 05:21 PM
  #15  
MDNA
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
T-Mar, your input has been invaluable, I really appreciate you dropping some insight on the subject, so thank you so much!

As as far as where to go with the frame from here, well I do have some plans in the mix for a rebuild. But you do bring up an interesting point about clear coating the bare frame, is that something you can even do? I was under the assumption that you couldnít clear coat over bare steel due to poor adherence of the enamel. Iím a total newb at bile painting so please correct me in this if possible.

Im surprised, however that there isnít much info with regard to the brand history. I definitely have seen this company on older era (40-60s), but I guess my question is if there is any relationship to E. Bianchi? My guess is no. But any insight is helpful...
MDNA is offline  
Old 11-21-18, 04:31 AM
  #16  
Kevindale
Senior Member
 
Kevindale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 1,684

Bikes: 1980 Koga-Miyata Gentsluxe-S, 1998 Eddy Merckx Corsa 01, 1983 Tommasini Racing, 2012 Gulf Western CAAD10, 1980 Univega Gran Premio

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 600 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by MDNA View Post
T-Mar, your input has been invaluable, I really appreciate you dropping some insight on the subject, so thank you so much!

As as far as where to go with the frame from here, well I do have some plans in the mix for a rebuild. But you do bring up an interesting point about clear coating the bare frame, is that something you can even do? I was under the assumption that you couldnít clear coat over bare steel due to poor adherence of the enamel. Iím a total newb at bile painting so please correct me in this if possible.

Im surprised, however that there isnít much info with regard to the brand history. I definitely have seen this company on older era (40-60s), but I guess my question is if there is any relationship to E. Bianchi? My guess is no. But any insight is helpful...
I don't think that is bare steel, I think the whole frame is chromed. Which makes it much more resistant to rust, but also means clear coat (or any paint) will probably adhere poorly. If you paint, then the chrome that's going to be painted might need to be slightly roughed up, which of course you wouldn't want to do if you were trying clear coat. You might ask about options in the main C&V subforum, since this one gets a lot less views.

I think it you simply gave it a good polish and then a few coats of paste wax, and kept it clean and dry after rides, it would look great for a long time. Sorry, I have no info to offer about the connection with the other Bianchi.
Kevindale is offline  
Old 11-21-18, 07:39 AM
  #17  
MDNA
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Kevindale, thanks for the input! I had actually wondered the exact same thing once it was stripped, but couldnít really make sense of why they would chrome the frame so they could paint over it. During the stripping process the paint was pretty durable and adhered well to the frame. But I definitely canít deny that this looks a lot different than the Bertoni (with matrix tubing) that I stripped before which looked obviously more like bare steel with obvious brazing on the lugs. This one looks way more seamless in terms of the lug brazing and way, well, shinier.

Is their any way to know for sure? Or to test the metal?

also I agree that maybe a thread move to the regular C&V forum would be better since I do plan on continuing the build on this frame and am less interested in the worth of it at this point.

Any moderators out there to help with that?

(below are pics of the bertoni compared to the g.b. For reference)








MDNA is offline  
Old 11-23-18, 07:52 PM
  #18  
MDNA
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thxgvn update...







MDNA is offline  
Old 11-23-18, 07:53 PM
  #19  
MDNA
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts




MDNA is offline  
Old 11-23-18, 07:54 PM
  #20  
MDNA
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Can I also get this thread moved to the regular C&V??
MDNA is offline  
Old 11-23-18, 09:14 PM
  #21  
cb400bill
Forum Moderator
 
cb400bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kalamazoo MI
Posts: 20,541

Bikes: Fuji SL2.1 Carbon Di2 Cannondale Synapse Alloy 4 Trek Checkpoint ALR gravel Viscount Aerospace Pro Colnago Classic Rabobank

Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2791 Post(s)
Liked 4,730 Times in 2,794 Posts
Originally Posted by MDNA View Post
Can I also get this thread moved to the regular C&V??
Fortunately, I saw this post and moved your thread. It works better if you report your thread and ask that it be moved. Then any of the mod staff can help you.
cb400bill is offline  
Old 11-23-18, 09:58 PM
  #22  
MDNA
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Gotcha, thanks cb400!
MDNA is offline  
Old 11-24-18, 01:19 PM
  #23  
MDNA
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Sneak peek of things to come...

MDNA is offline  
Old 11-24-18, 01:48 PM
  #24  
juvela
Senior Member
 
juvela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 12,030
Mentioned: 338 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2928 Post(s)
Liked 1,551 Times in 1,125 Posts
-----

Whoa!

Very fine work being done there.

Thank you for all of the updates.

We need to hear from @MauriceMoss on this as to identifying the vendor.

The shop may have used more than one through the years.

Chanced upon another "Joe White" yesterday in the course of web wander; a condorino this time:

https://www.subito.it/biciclette/bic...-274473386.htm

-----
juvela is offline  
Old 11-24-18, 02:24 PM
  #25  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 23,730

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 142 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3038 Post(s)
Liked 2,160 Times in 1,289 Posts
Originally Posted by MDNA View Post
So I took a look at the steer tube and definitely see the rifling that is consistent with Columbus tubing. However looking at the bottom of the seat tube as it goes into the bottom bracket shell I do not see any stamp work that shows Columbus tubing.
Rifling only in the steer tube and 27.2mm seat tube indicates SL tubing, probably early 1980s production at the latest.

SLX/SPX tubing with rifling in the bottom bracket ends of tubes came on the market in the mid-80s and largely supplanted the market for SL/SP tubing.
JohnDThompson is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.