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What are these? Dia-Compe/Shimano 3.3.3/Suntour Brifters?

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What are these? Dia-Compe/Shimano 3.3.3/Suntour Brifters?

Old 11-22-18, 12:05 PM
  #1  
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What are these? Dia-Compe/Shimano 3.3.3/Suntour Brifters?

In a bit of eBay luck(?) picked up these strange Dia-Compe Red Dot Brifters-- just my kind of Japanese vintage hipster crap:

Does anyone have any knowledge/insight/experience with these beasts?

I'd like to put them on some Nitto Albastache bars on a Kabuki Submariner town bike I'm putting together. If they are going on an Albastache bar, I'll have to figure out how to remove the safety/suicide lever extensions, which is not as obviously easy on these things as is ordinarily the case. The whole safety/extension/suicide and shift levers are mounted on an extended brake lever pivot shaft (the "red dot" piece) as far as I can tell-- which seems like the really unusual part of these beasts. See this photo:

Any ideas for further disassembly?
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Old 11-22-18, 02:49 PM
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Ow! Cool! Never seen these before, but now I need a pair. Definitely.
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Old 11-22-18, 03:18 PM
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This was a private modification. Cool idea! I think you can shave off the extra red pivot and then remount the shift levers.
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Old 11-22-18, 04:50 PM
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Yeah, that looks like homebrew, but perhaps competently done. I'd have to see it all disassembled to understand it completely.
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Old 11-22-18, 05:18 PM
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I understand it completely. True brifters.
They almost look indexable.

Generally, the turkey levers wobble.
I'd be curious about those.
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Old 11-22-18, 06:19 PM
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Seems like an appropriate day for turkey levers.
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Old 11-23-18, 05:46 AM
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Can you put a wrench on the flats in the last picture to try to remove the assembly? Perhaps someone fabricated something to replace the big screw that normally holds on the turkey levers.
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Old 11-23-18, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
Yeah, that looks like homebrew, but perhaps competently done. I'd have to see it all disassembled to understand it completely.
Competently enough to anodize the “axle”/boss rod...

a fair amount of thought, engineering and fabrication went into those.
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Old 11-23-18, 01:44 PM
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To remove the "red shaft thing" pull the brake lever down and go inside and remove the long screw that tightens the handlebar clamp. Pull that long screw all the way out, then the "red shaft thing" can be pulled out in the direction of the shift lever mount.
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Old 11-23-18, 02:17 PM
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These look factory to me, just as The Golden Boy pointed out that the flats are even anodized post-machining.

But I have doubts that I would want to shift this way, seems like (especially with such a range of motion) the movement would likely be very hard to articulate with sufficient force to effect accurate friction shifts while maintaining control of the bicycle.
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Old 11-23-18, 02:18 PM
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The red anodized "dot" is the end of the lever pivot. It is a standard part on any Weinmanm or DiaCompe or GB brake lever of this era. On levers with the "turkey wing" extension, the aluminum pivot extends by 6 mm or so, slightly smaller diameter, and is threaded internally to take a M6 x 1.0 bolt. That's all factory stuff.

Somehow someone has stuck a shifter mount onto the end. The shifter mount is steel. It's like a frame braze on, but I suspect this one is from SunTour stem shifters. Regardless what it is, I'm curious to know how it's held onto the end of the brake lever pivot.

I tried to make something like this in about 1982 or 1983, but stumbled at getting the right anti-turn feature between the shifter and the brakes lever. So I'm curious how this guy did it.
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Old 11-23-18, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
The red anodized "dot" is the end of the lever pivot. It is a standard part on any Weinmanm or DiaCompe or GB brake lever of this era. On levers with the "turkey wing" extension, the aluminum pivot extends by 6 mm or so, slightly smaller diameter, and is threaded internally to take a M6 x 1.0 bolt. That's all factory stuff.

Somehow someone has stuck a shifter mount onto the end. The shifter mount is steel. It's like a frame braze on, but I suspect this one is from SunTour stem shifters. Regardless what it is, I'm curious to know how it's held onto the end of the brake lever pivot.

I tried to make something like this in about 1982 or 1983, but stumbled at getting the right anti-turn feature between the shifter and the brakes lever. So I'm curious how this guy did it.
I'm suspecting that the shifter's stationary plates are fixed by the same flats that prevent rotation of the stationary friction washers. I'm not at all sure what's keeping the shifter backing plate from sliding off of the shifter shaft, other than the tension screw(?).

Are we actually supposing that someone who made these would go to the trouble of getting the parts anodized? Maybe if they were trying to fake a factory limited production (i.e., rare) item, but then only if they were asking a lot of money for these.
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Old 11-23-18, 03:17 PM
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No, the red anodized aluminum is a factory part. The shifter mount is separate. One is steel, the other aluminum.

The aluminum bit is threaded for an M6 bolt, the steel bit takes an M5 or M4.5 bolt.

I'm guessing he welded the shifter boss to the head of an M6 bolt. And I doubt it's much fun to use it.
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Old 11-23-18, 03:54 PM
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SunTour marketed a similar 'brifter' for flat handlebars in the late 1960s. Consequently, I wouldn't automatically dismiss the OP's sample as being homemade.
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Old 11-24-18, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
No, the red anodized aluminum is a factory part. The shifter mount is separate. One is steel, the other aluminum.

The aluminum bit is threaded for an M6 bolt, the steel bit takes an M5 or M4.5 bolt.

I'm guessing he welded the shifter boss to the head of an M6 bolt. And I doubt it's much fun to use it.
Except that the "boss" (shift lever pivot shaft) is clearly aluminum, which can't be welded to a steel bolt.

Yes, the shifter "mount" (i.e. the plate with cable housing port) is steel and is a separate part, which slides over the boss while engaging the two flats so as to prevent it's rotation. The "boss" or pivot shaft is held stationary by the lever clamp bolt which pierces it inside of the brake lever, and this shaft thus serves as the stationary pivot shaft for both the brake lever and the shift lever (including it's mount/plate).

It's all super-simple in it's execution, and I suspect it was intended to be shifted only from the drops, using one's thumbs (so again, perhaps awkward to use).
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Old 11-24-18, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by dddd View Post
Except that the "boss" (shift lever pivot shaft) is clearly aluminum, which can't be welded to a steel bolt.

Yes, the shifter "mount" (i.e. the plate with cable housing port) is steel and is a separate part, which slides over the boss while engaging the two flats so as to prevent it's rotation. The "boss" or pivot shaft is held stationary by the lever clamp bolt which pierces it inside of the brake lever, and this shaft thus serves as the stationary pivot shaft for both the brake lever and the shift lever (including it's mount/plate).

It's all super-simple in it's execution, and I suspect it was intended to be shifted only from the drops, using one's thumbs (so again, perhaps awkward to use).
You are confusing me!

I know you can't weld (or braze) steel to aluminum. But you can weld (or braze) steel to steel.

The boss, or whatever you want to call the thing that is usually brazed to the down tube and holds all the other shifter parts, is somehow stuck to the end of the aluminum brake lever pivot. I haven't figured out what holds the steel thing to the aluminum thing, but we do know the aluminum thing is tapped to accept an M6 bolt. Hence my suggestion that the steel shifter boss is welded to a steel bolt that threads into the aluminum pivot.

I grant that theory is weak. It is unclear what prevents the steel assembly from unscrewing itself from the aluminum assembly. The only thing I can think of is loctite.
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Old 11-24-18, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
You are confusing me!

I know you can't weld (or braze) steel to aluminum. But you can weld (or braze) steel to steel.

The boss, or whatever you want to call the thing that is usually brazed to the down tube and holds all the other shifter parts, is somehow stuck to the end of the aluminum brake lever pivot. I haven't figured out what holds the steel thing to the aluminum thing, but we do know the aluminum thing is tapped to accept an M6 bolt. Hence my suggestion that the steel shifter boss is welded to a steel bolt that threads into the aluminum pivot.

I grant that theory is weak. It is unclear what prevents the steel assembly from unscrewing itself from the aluminum assembly. The only thing I can think of is loctite.
I figured that the steel shifter mount/plate "boss" has a round, flatted hole in it and simply slides along the flats until the flats end, so with the shift lever tension screw holding all of the shifter parts together in compression (without forcefully compressing the turkey lever bushing).
The tension screw is likely the standard one that comes with the shift levers (so likely only 5mm and finer thread to make tightening the friction level easier).

I can't see the aluminum spindle/boss being a separate piece from the brake lever pivot spindle, essentially it is just part of a longer brake lever pivot spindle, with a pair of flats milled along about 1/2" of it's length (and with 5mm threading for the shift lever tension screw).
All of the torque fed into the pivot spindle from the friction lever washers and steel "boss" plate has to be resisted by the flats, and with the spindle then being kept stationary by the main clamp screw that tightens the whole works onto the handlebar.

Now to figure out what model of bike originally came with these levers, since I doubt that it was available aftermarket but rather dreamed up by a bike designer or perhaps offered to an OEM as an option by DiaCompe (who's OEM catalog was pretty crowded with rarely-seen offerings that may have been used by one OEM customer on just one model).

Might be cool to fit some kind of retrofriction levers to these brake levers, might make thumb shifting a whole lot easier(?).

One more cool thing about these levers is that (unlike the Suntour Command levers) the turkey levers can remain intact as part of this design!
A command-type lever mounted to the brake-lever pivot spindle might be a cool thing to try(?).
I do recall (by customer request) making one set of the lower-tier Command shifters work together with turkey levers, but I had to cut off the lower half of the shift levers to prevent interference.

Last edited by dddd; 11-24-18 at 08:26 PM.
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Old 11-24-18, 10:26 PM
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Okay, well... I will need to see it all disassembled. I still don't believe this combination of parts came like this from either the SunTour or DiaCompe factory.
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Old 11-24-18, 11:00 PM
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Seems to me removing the extension lever is easy. Can't you just take it apart down to the lever, remove it, then replace it with an aluminum "washer" or the same thickness? I have some scrap 1/4" aluminum. I"d just cout out and drill this washer from that plate, then file and mic it down to the thickness of the lever. Reassemble and done. Yes, shortening things up would be cleaner but I would do this as a QAD (quick and dirty) approach to see if I like the concept. If it works, take it apart further, measure and draw up the pivot bolt accurately, reassemble and make a pivot bolt that washer shorter, meanwhile happily riding the QAD setup.

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Old 11-25-18, 12:05 AM
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I homebrewed something like that back in about 1983-ish. Dia-Compe extension lever-type pivot, modified SunTour handlebar-mount ratchet shifter mounted on the outside of the brake lever, no actual extension lever. It worked reasonably well.
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Old 11-25-18, 03:19 PM
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Red andizing is kind of difficult for most one off manufacturing. I too, would love to see these disassembled.
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Old 11-25-18, 07:12 PM
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Here are more photos. I’m not sure how to go further and don’t want to mess up my special, unique, custom, priceless, one-of-a-kind $20 eBay find. The red anodized shaft is the thing that makes these special. Everything else goes around them or screws into them. The red anadized shaft really looks like a factory-made piece. Anybody got a 70s Dia-Compe catalog? Here’s done more pics:

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Old 11-25-18, 07:19 PM
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Old 11-25-18, 07:21 PM
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Old 11-26-18, 11:38 PM
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Well, it's definitely homebrew, considering that you've got a Shimano shift lever with a SunTour compression plate.

IIRC, that's how I homebrewed my brake-lever mounted shifters way back when. It's pretty interesting that these units went one step further and incorporated the "safety" levers. Please post a review when you put them on a bike.
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