I need helps on tubing info for my newly completed project
11-26-18, 10:48 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Saigon - South Vietnam
Posts: 139
Bikes: Saronni Colnago 1982; Battaglin 1982, Centurion Lemans RS 1978, 3Rensho Katana 1978, C. Borghi Olympia 1980, 3Rensho Athlete 1980's, Holdsworth 1980's and more...
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times
in
5 Posts
I need helps on tubing info for my newly completed project
Hi everbody!
Today, I would like to share with you some photos of my newly completed project (the 9th one) restored & built from a no name steel road bike frame from 1970's. I bought this frame a few years ago from a friend who is the owner of LBS. He also did not know much about that frame as its original paint was fully stripped down. The frame was fully chromed but the surface was badly rusted at unrecoverable level. Instead of re-chroming it, I decided to just paint it black fully except for the head lugs & seat lugs, fork ends, drop-outs. For decals, I designed myself a set of decals under my son's name & had it printed at a local decal & sticker shop. Here it is..
My friend & I, we are pretty sure that it is a Japanese made frame of end 1970's with Shimano fork ends & drop-outs. BB is 1.37 x 24 Japan. However, we could not find any other info about tubing on both fork & frame. Hence, we did not know what kind of tubing was used. Tange, Ishiwata, or any others?
I will post some more close up pictures taken on lugs & bottom bracket area so that BF experts can help to tell me something about frame builder & tubing infos...if possible.
.
Today, I would like to share with you some photos of my newly completed project (the 9th one) restored & built from a no name steel road bike frame from 1970's. I bought this frame a few years ago from a friend who is the owner of LBS. He also did not know much about that frame as its original paint was fully stripped down. The frame was fully chromed but the surface was badly rusted at unrecoverable level. Instead of re-chroming it, I decided to just paint it black fully except for the head lugs & seat lugs, fork ends, drop-outs. For decals, I designed myself a set of decals under my son's name & had it printed at a local decal & sticker shop. Here it is..
My friend & I, we are pretty sure that it is a Japanese made frame of end 1970's with Shimano fork ends & drop-outs. BB is 1.37 x 24 Japan. However, we could not find any other info about tubing on both fork & frame. Hence, we did not know what kind of tubing was used. Tange, Ishiwata, or any others?
I will post some more close up pictures taken on lugs & bottom bracket area so that BF experts can help to tell me something about frame builder & tubing infos...if possible.
.
11-26-18, 10:58 PM
#3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Saigon - South Vietnam
Posts: 139
Bikes: Saronni Colnago 1982; Battaglin 1982, Centurion Lemans RS 1978, 3Rensho Katana 1978, C. Borghi Olympia 1980, 3Rensho Athlete 1980's, Holdsworth 1980's and more...
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times
in
5 Posts
Some more pictures...
11-26-18, 11:02 PM
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Saigon - South Vietnam
Posts: 139
Bikes: Saronni Colnago 1982; Battaglin 1982, Centurion Lemans RS 1978, 3Rensho Katana 1978, C. Borghi Olympia 1980, 3Rensho Athlete 1980's, Holdsworth 1980's and more...
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times
in
5 Posts
Sorry for the poor quality of pictures which were taken by my smart phone!
11-26-18, 11:04 PM
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Saigon - South Vietnam
Posts: 139
Bikes: Saronni Colnago 1982; Battaglin 1982, Centurion Lemans RS 1978, 3Rensho Katana 1978, C. Borghi Olympia 1980, 3Rensho Athlete 1980's, Holdsworth 1980's and more...
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times
in
5 Posts
11-26-18, 11:24 PM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Point Reyes Station, California
Posts: 4,379
Bikes: Indeed!
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1347 Post(s)
Liked 2,763 Times
in
924 Posts
Nice looking bike. I think you're right about a Japanese build. The seat cluster and the chrome are reminiscent of the Centurion Semi Pro but other details don't match. If you provide us with the serial number we may be able to at least ascertain the manufacturer, thanks to T-Mar's Asian serial number guide. Asian Serial Number Guide
Brent
Brent
11-26-18, 11:35 PM
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Saigon - South Vietnam
Posts: 139
Bikes: Saronni Colnago 1982; Battaglin 1982, Centurion Lemans RS 1978, 3Rensho Katana 1978, C. Borghi Olympia 1980, 3Rensho Athlete 1980's, Holdsworth 1980's and more...
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times
in
5 Posts
Nice looking bike. I think you're right about a Japanese build. The seat cluster and the chrome are reminiscent of the Centurion Semi Pro but other details don't match. If you provide us with the serial number we may be able to at least ascertain the manufacturer, thanks to T-Mar's Asian serial number guide. Asian Serial Number Guide
Brent
Brent
Some more pictures taken at different angles...
11-26-18, 11:38 PM
#8
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Saigon - South Vietnam
Posts: 139
Bikes: Saronni Colnago 1982; Battaglin 1982, Centurion Lemans RS 1978, 3Rensho Katana 1978, C. Borghi Olympia 1980, 3Rensho Athlete 1980's, Holdsworth 1980's and more...
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times
in
5 Posts
11-26-18, 11:43 PM
#9
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Saigon - South Vietnam
Posts: 139
Bikes: Saronni Colnago 1982; Battaglin 1982, Centurion Lemans RS 1978, 3Rensho Katana 1978, C. Borghi Olympia 1980, 3Rensho Athlete 1980's, Holdsworth 1980's and more...
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times
in
5 Posts
Nice looking bike. I think you're right about a Japanese build. The seat cluster and the chrome are reminiscent of the Centurion Semi Pro but other details don't match. If you provide us with the serial number we may be able to at least ascertain the manufacturer, thanks to T-Mar's Asian serial number guide. Asian Serial Number Guide
Brent
Brent
11-26-18, 11:55 PM
#10
Bike Butcher of Portland
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,223
Bikes: It's complicated.
Mentioned: 1245 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4426 Post(s)
Liked 4,781 Times
in
1,989 Posts
Whatever it is, outstanding job! Really great attention to detail on the restore. I love the way the cable housing wraps around the water bottle.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
11-27-18, 12:23 AM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 755
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
5 Posts
Holy cow @Nguyen Dang that is a beautiful bike!
What are those handlebars!? They are fantastic.
What are those handlebars!? They are fantastic.
11-27-18, 01:23 AM
#12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Saigon - South Vietnam
Posts: 139
Bikes: Saronni Colnago 1982; Battaglin 1982, Centurion Lemans RS 1978, 3Rensho Katana 1978, C. Borghi Olympia 1980, 3Rensho Athlete 1980's, Holdsworth 1980's and more...
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times
in
5 Posts
Many thanks for your complements! Due to paying much attention on details, I would love to hear someone telling me something about framer builder & tubing info so that I can secure a correct tubing sticker for my bike.
11-27-18, 01:25 AM
#13
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Saigon - South Vietnam
Posts: 139
Bikes: Saronni Colnago 1982; Battaglin 1982, Centurion Lemans RS 1978, 3Rensho Katana 1978, C. Borghi Olympia 1980, 3Rensho Athlete 1980's, Holdsworth 1980's and more...
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times
in
5 Posts
Holy cow @Nguyen Dang that is a beautiful bike!
What are those handlebars!? They are fantastic.
What are those handlebars!? They are fantastic.
11-27-18, 05:37 AM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,529
Mentioned: 449 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3447 Post(s)
Liked 5,359 Times
in
2,193 Posts
What size seat post does it take? That info will give some clue as to the grade of tubing.
11-27-18, 06:53 AM
#15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Saigon - South Vietnam
Posts: 139
Bikes: Saronni Colnago 1982; Battaglin 1982, Centurion Lemans RS 1978, 3Rensho Katana 1978, C. Borghi Olympia 1980, 3Rensho Athlete 1980's, Holdsworth 1980's and more...
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times
in
5 Posts
11-27-18, 07:48 AM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,233
Mentioned: 647 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4710 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2,999 Times
in
1,854 Posts
Given the post size and frame details it is most likely Tange Champion. All of Tange's Champion (i.e.seamless CrMo) tubesets, with the exception of #4 and Pro, typically used a 26.6- 26.8mm seat post, depending on the builder's finishing operation. For a frame of this apparent level, if it was Ishiwata, I would expect a larger post, around 27.0-27.2mm. If the OP removes the fork, there may may stamps on the steerer tube indicating the tubing manufacturer and a date code. The frame details suggest late 1970s to very early 1980s, in which case it could use either the generic Tange Champion decal or one of the numbered Champion decals (most likely #2 ), depending on the exact year.
Given the OP's location, there is a good probability that it a brand never imported to N.America, where most members reside. Still, the serial number may provide a clue to the manufacturer. Besides the bottom bracket shell, other common locations for a serial number include the lower seat tube, head lugs and rear dropouts.
Given the OP's location, there is a good probability that it a brand never imported to N.America, where most members reside. Still, the serial number may provide a clue to the manufacturer. Besides the bottom bracket shell, other common locations for a serial number include the lower seat tube, head lugs and rear dropouts.
11-27-18, 08:33 AM
#17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Saigon - South Vietnam
Posts: 139
Bikes: Saronni Colnago 1982; Battaglin 1982, Centurion Lemans RS 1978, 3Rensho Katana 1978, C. Borghi Olympia 1980, 3Rensho Athlete 1980's, Holdsworth 1980's and more...
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times
in
5 Posts
Hi T-Mar,
Many thanks for your valuable inputs. Really appreciate!
To be frank, we examined the frame & the fork carefully inside out when the frame set was still naked ( stripped down). There is no number engraved at any part of the frame set. Normally, we can find easly the name Tange on the fork steering tube. But in my case, nothing at all. Headache!
That's why I had to open this thread asking for helps from BF experts.
Many thanks for your valuable inputs. Really appreciate!
To be frank, we examined the frame & the fork carefully inside out when the frame set was still naked ( stripped down). There is no number engraved at any part of the frame set. Normally, we can find easly the name Tange on the fork steering tube. But in my case, nothing at all. Headache!
That's why I had to open this thread asking for helps from BF experts.
11-27-18, 10:16 PM
#18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Saigon - South Vietnam
Posts: 139
Bikes: Saronni Colnago 1982; Battaglin 1982, Centurion Lemans RS 1978, 3Rensho Katana 1978, C. Borghi Olympia 1980, 3Rensho Athlete 1980's, Holdsworth 1980's and more...
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times
in
5 Posts
Is there any further input from other experts to help me?
Can you base on the lug cut out pattern to tell me some more?
Can you base on the lug cut out pattern to tell me some more?
11-28-18, 04:36 AM
#19
Senior Member
About the bike stand.... homemade? Beauty of a bike.
11-28-18, 05:58 AM
#20
Senior Member
My guess is also Tange Champion #2 and built by Miki, who built for several brands (including some fully chromed Centurions). I just compared some details to my Centurion Pro Tour from '77, and your bike seems like a half step up in details, though there are some differences.
The long pointed lugs seem similar (though mine don't have the cutout). Your bottle bosses are much nicer than my simple ones. The two things that are nearly identical, though, are the "diver's head" cable stop near the rear derailleur and the seatstay bridge arrangement, which is simple with something like a washer brazed to the rear only, though it's attached to the stays differently. Yours, of course, has the cable routing brazed to the BB shell, where mine uses clamps...
The long pointed lugs seem similar (though mine don't have the cutout). Your bottle bosses are much nicer than my simple ones. The two things that are nearly identical, though, are the "diver's head" cable stop near the rear derailleur and the seatstay bridge arrangement, which is simple with something like a washer brazed to the rear only, though it's attached to the stays differently. Yours, of course, has the cable routing brazed to the BB shell, where mine uses clamps...
11-28-18, 11:15 PM
#21
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Saigon - South Vietnam
Posts: 139
Bikes: Saronni Colnago 1982; Battaglin 1982, Centurion Lemans RS 1978, 3Rensho Katana 1978, C. Borghi Olympia 1980, 3Rensho Athlete 1980's, Holdsworth 1980's and more...
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times
in
5 Posts
My guess is also Tange Champion #2 and built by Miki, who built for several brands (including some fully chromed Centurions). I just compared some details to my Centurion Pro Tour from '77, and your bike seems like a half step up in details, though there are some differences.
The long pointed lugs seem similar (though mine don't have the cutout). Your bottle bosses are much nicer than my simple ones. The two things that are nearly identical, though, are the "diver's head" cable stop near the rear derailleur and the seatstay bridge arrangement, which is simple with something like a washer brazed to the rear only, though it's attached to the stays differently. Yours, of course, has the cable routing brazed to the BB shell, where mine uses clamps...
The long pointed lugs seem similar (though mine don't have the cutout). Your bottle bosses are much nicer than my simple ones. The two things that are nearly identical, though, are the "diver's head" cable stop near the rear derailleur and the seatstay bridge arrangement, which is simple with something like a washer brazed to the rear only, though it's attached to the stays differently. Yours, of course, has the cable routing brazed to the BB shell, where mine uses clamps...
Is there any expert in Asia can give some more inputs, please?
11-28-18, 11:18 PM
#22
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Saigon - South Vietnam
Posts: 139
Bikes: Saronni Colnago 1982; Battaglin 1982, Centurion Lemans RS 1978, 3Rensho Katana 1978, C. Borghi Olympia 1980, 3Rensho Athlete 1980's, Holdsworth 1980's and more...
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times
in
5 Posts
11-29-18, 12:05 AM
#23
Senior Member
I am not a huge expert so maybe only count my input at 1/3 of the above: But, I concur (as if they needed it) that tange champion #2 is a very good bet just due to the japanese drop outs and the seatpost size which coorespond, and the chrome, which puts it in teh range of a semi-pro which was champion #2 . But without a Serial# it seems like it must not be a major player and probably a small builder.
and if it were a small outfit, it could be any combination of tubing: like my zunow does not have a tubing sticker because Kageyama liked to pick a tube that worked best for the bike and maybe the top is champion 2 while the down is champion 1, seat tube.... who knows? -and he even had them make custom tubing just for him so it has no standard number
So what I am saying is: you may just have to wonder: I think you are probably safe in that its Tange, but other than that... there is no way to know without using an MRI or something.
and if it were a small outfit, it could be any combination of tubing: like my zunow does not have a tubing sticker because Kageyama liked to pick a tube that worked best for the bike and maybe the top is champion 2 while the down is champion 1, seat tube.... who knows? -and he even had them make custom tubing just for him so it has no standard number
So what I am saying is: you may just have to wonder: I think you are probably safe in that its Tange, but other than that... there is no way to know without using an MRI or something.
11-29-18, 01:18 AM
#24
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Saigon - South Vietnam
Posts: 139
Bikes: Saronni Colnago 1982; Battaglin 1982, Centurion Lemans RS 1978, 3Rensho Katana 1978, C. Borghi Olympia 1980, 3Rensho Athlete 1980's, Holdsworth 1980's and more...
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times
in
5 Posts
I am not a huge expert so maybe only count my input at 1/3 of the above: But, I concur (as if they needed it) that tange champion #2 is a very good bet just due to the japanese drop outs and the seatpost size which coorespond, and the chrome, which puts it in teh range of a semi-pro which was champion #2 . But without a Serial# it seems like it must not be a major player and probably a small builder.
and if it were a small outfit, it could be any combination of tubing: like my zunow does not have a tubing sticker because Kageyama liked to pick a tube that worked best for the bike and maybe the top is champion 2 while the down is champion 1, seat tube.... who knows? -and he even had them make custom tubing just for him so it has no standard number
So what I am saying is: you may just have to wonder: I think you are probably safe in that its Tange, but other than that... there is no way to know without using an MRI or something.
and if it were a small outfit, it could be any combination of tubing: like my zunow does not have a tubing sticker because Kageyama liked to pick a tube that worked best for the bike and maybe the top is champion 2 while the down is champion 1, seat tube.... who knows? -and he even had them make custom tubing just for him so it has no standard number
So what I am saying is: you may just have to wonder: I think you are probably safe in that its Tange, but other than that... there is no way to know without using an MRI or something.
With your inputs, now I changed my mind not to secure & apply any tubing sticker on the frame. Tange Champion #2 or not will be for myself only. This is to avoid any conflicts or argue with other vintage bike enthusiast in my residence.
Anyway, a big thank to all of you. The case can be considered closed. However, if any experts would want to give in more inputs, please be advised that you are welcome!
I have joined this BF for studying about vintage bikes. Hence, any comments/inputs from all of you guys are valuable & useful for me!
