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Truing Stand Recommendations?

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Truing Stand Recommendations?

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Old 12-04-18, 03:57 PM
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Truing Stand Recommendations?

I've been building my own wheels, but taking them to a LBS to get them tensioned and trued. I have three wheels to build this winter, so It's time for me to learn how to do that.
I'm looking for a good truing stand. I was thinking of a used Park TS-2 but even used they can be pricey.

What stand are you using to build and true your wheels? Do you use a dishing tool? Which one?

Thanks
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Old 12-04-18, 04:23 PM
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This is one of those questions that come up on the forum from time to time. Can somebody post a link to the last one? I’m not at a computer to search for it.

As an aside, it’s interesting that you’re building but not truing.

I’ve built, tensioned and trues wheels without a stand. Tie wraps on a frame work well for visual aids. Centering can be done by flip flopping the wheel.
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Old 12-04-18, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
This is one of those questions that come up on the forum from time to time. Can somebody post a link to the last one? I’m not at a computer to search for it.

As an aside, it’s interesting that you’re building but not truing.

I’ve built, tensioned and trues wheels without a stand. Tie wraps on a frame work well for visual aids. Centering can be done by flip flopping the wheel.
This.
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Old 12-04-18, 04:57 PM
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Finally after decades, I did get a dishing tool. Whew, it is nice. Probably a bit more accurate than I can get with the flip flop.

I've done quite a bit with a home-made stand that Dad made years ago. Pretty crude, actually, but it works to get the job done.

I now am using a really vintage Var PreciRay stand. I'm very happy to adjust hop and lateral truing simultaneously, but one can quickly head down a rabbit hole of precision. Is the indicator wiggling just a bit?

The Park TS2 and TS2.2 stands appear to be good solid stands, and should serve you well. 2.2 is a little larger, and better if you want to touch up a wheel with the tire mounted. I like to remove the tires most of the time anyway.
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Old 12-04-18, 05:09 PM
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Back at computer. Gotcher truing stand right here.

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Old 12-04-18, 11:35 PM
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I have been looking for a used truing on CL for a while. Even used, sellers seem to be looking to get close to what a new one costs (for Park models). I saw a Wrench Force model on CL, but seems like replacement parts are not availble like they are for Park models.
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Old 12-05-18, 01:08 AM
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I used a cheap Minoura stand for years. It did the job. I got a Park TS-2with a bike and parts purchase last year. It's a lot nicer. The Minoura was isn't nearly firm enough to judge dish by flipping the wheel. The Park is. I'm not sure that makes it worth the extra cost. Roger Musson's eBook has plans for a Turing stand you can make yourself if you have basic woodworking tools. It looks pretty solid. The book is very good too.
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Old 12-05-18, 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
I used a cheap Minoura stand for years. It did the job. I got a Park TS-2with a bike and parts purchase last year. It's a lot nicer. The Minoura was isn't nearly firm enough to judge dish by flipping the wheel. The Park is.
Weirdly, my story is exactly the same. I spent 20 years using the same floppy stamped-steel Minoura and got a TS-2 a bit under two years ago, though I got mine in trade.

As to the rest of the question, I flip the wheel in the stand to check dish, usually three or four times before I'm satisfied. I'm not the world's biggest fan of the TS-2 because of the angle issues the uprights have, but it's more than adequate if you can get one cheap.
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Old 12-05-18, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by vintagerando View Post
I have been looking for a used truing on CL for a while. Even used, sellers seem to be looking to get close to what a new one costs (for Park models). I saw a Wrench Force model on CL, but seems like replacement parts are not availble like they are for Park models.
That was probably my Trek/Wrench force stand you saw. Incredibly over built, it was close to 40lbs I think. Not really set up for precision wheel building though, more of a factory production stand.

I always get a ton of craigslist folks looking for wheel building tools. Whenever I list anything resembling bike tools that is always the first, and most frequent question by far.

I've mostly used the Park stands, they do the job fine despite the constant weird centering issues. Way less of a problem if you're the only one using it at home though.
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Old 12-05-18, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
Back at computer. Gotcher truing stand right here.

This is elegant
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Old 12-05-18, 07:37 AM
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I have this one - affordable and effective - probably not quite as stable or stout as more expensive versions.

Minoura

$74

https://www.amazon.com/Minoura-Porta...a-525193656858
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Old 12-05-18, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by wesmamyke View Post
I've mostly used the Park stands, they do the job fine despite the constant weird centering issues. Way less of a problem if you're the only one using it at home though.
Can you expand upon this centering issue?

I have a Park TS-2.2 and find that I have to check the centering each time I use it. I thought it was just me.
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Old 12-05-18, 11:01 AM
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Basically, anything will do, as shown by @gugie above. But the heavier and stabler it is, the easier and quicker it is. The heavy ones are expensive, and the price doesn't justify occasional use for most people.
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Old 12-05-18, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
I used a cheap Minoura stand for years. It did the job. I got a Park TS-2with a bike and parts purchase last year. It's a lot nicer. The Minoura was isn't nearly firm enough to judge dish by flipping the wheel. The Park is. I'm not sure that makes it worth the extra cost. Roger Musson's eBook has plans for a Turing stand you can make yourself if you have basic woodworking tools. It looks pretty solid. The book is very good too.
I am an occasional user and went the DIY route. The dial indicator is very useful and they can be found cheap. The dish gauge is a very simple device and can be made in a few minutes by anyone with minimal woodworking skills and a couple hand tools.

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Old 12-05-18, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by CO_Hoya View Post

Can you expand upon this centering issue?

I have a Park TS-2.2 and find that I have to check the centering each time I use it. I thought it was just me.
Someone else mentioned the non parallel uprights, the hub locknuts are not really contacting a flat repeatable surface. They also tend to only stay centered for a given hub width. You can carefully center it for a 100mm front, and it will be off for a rear hub. I think some of that is the issue with the uprights, I also think the screw adjustment has some creep in it that tends to throw it off.
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Old 12-05-18, 12:05 PM
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Old 12-05-18, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by wesmamyke View Post
Someone else mentioned the non parallel uprights, the hub locknuts are not really contacting a flat repeatable surface. They also tend to only stay centered for a given hub width. You can carefully center it for a 100mm front, and it will be off for a rear hub. I think some of that is the issue with the uprights, I also think the screw adjustment has some creep in it that tends to throw it off.
I have a Park TS-2, bought it awhile ago as I was starting to build more wheels. Why? I cut my teeth on them building a few hundred wheels in my LBS days. They speed things up a bit. It's just what I'm used to.

I don't use it for centering at all. The owner at the shop I learned to build wheels at stuck an allen wrench under one of the feeler arms to get it out of the way and only used one face for true and round, so that's what I do. I recall others at different shops I worked at did the same. "Don't trust the center, use a dishing gauge" is what I learned.

There are more expensive stands that don't have the centering issue. A lot more expensive. No stand will make you a better wheel builder, maybe just a faster one.
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Old 12-05-18, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by due ruote View Post

I am an occasional user and went the DIY route. The dial indicator is very useful and they can be found cheap. The dish gauge is a very simple device and can be made in a few minutes by anyone with minimal woodworking skills and a couple hand tools.

I really like the idea of making your own tools. It forces one to think out things, and in making and using it, you know the limitations.
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Old 12-05-18, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by due ruote View Post

I am an occasional user and went the DIY route. The dial indicator is very useful and they can be found cheap. The dish gauge is a very simple device and can be made in a few minutes by anyone with minimal woodworking skills and a couple hand tools.

I like the DIY approach-- Gugie's method is pretty cool and the easiest to do. I'm going to try it and see what I can do.
I have some nice Birch hardwood stock, wood working tools and the plans from Musson's book, so I think I'll make a stand like this one and a dish tool.
It's tough to justify the Park TS-2 when it will only be used occasionally.

Thanks everyone for the feedback.
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Old 12-05-18, 12:24 PM
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Bingo!

This is where the magic happens. Dishing is only an issue if you don't insert the axles squarely and tighten them down properly.

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Old 12-05-18, 12:24 PM
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The allen wrench under one side of the indicator is standard operating procedure. I worked with one mechanic that would setup one stand super loose, enough that you could push the rim into contacting one indicator or the other without loosening the uprights. Instead of flipping wheels over or switching the allen wrench, he would just knock the uprights to the other side with a smack.
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Old 12-05-18, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
Two Wheels, that's gorgeous!
Well, thanks. It’s not the prettiest thing I have made, but it gets the job done, and was mainly made from scrap I had laying around. The dish gauge is just a piece of 1x4 with a T-nut in the middle for the feeler bolt, and screws at the ends to register against the locknuts.
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Old 12-05-18, 12:31 PM
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Park Stands supposed dishing function is essentially useless. It's good for a rough indication at most. You will still need a dishing tool. Still, a Park TS2 is the one to get if you have the workspace, and think you'll be using it. There's a reason they are the industry standard.

For my use the Minoura is better. I live in an apartment. It folds to nothing and goes in a box in the closet when I don't need it. These days at the outside I'll build a set of wheels every year or two. I find the Minoura much easier to work with than zip ties or similar methods, despite it's floppiness.
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Old 12-05-18, 01:16 PM
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For convenience, I see a good dishing tool as much more important than any details of the stand. All the stand has to to is hold the wheel and have the feelers. Now, if it is rigid and you can rapidly duplicate how the wheel sits on it, flipping the wheel to check for dish works well. But it takes some care and hence expense (usually) to have a stand good enough to do that. A dishing tool solves that nicely for any stand that doesn't pass that test.

I bought a cheap stand and dishing tool in the mid '80s. Bent flatbar with a couple of welds and regular bolts for the feelers. DIshing tool had tube that sat on the hub locknut over the axle. But this meant I had to pull the quick release out or unscrew both nub nuts to check the dish. That gets old after a while. So many years later, I modified the plunger that sits on the lockwasher so it works with the nuts or quick release in place, Really easy to do. Get a 6" bolt that will fit inside the tube and a matching nut. Also a piece of aluminum angle, 1 X 1 X 1/8. Cut the angle to two (say) 1 1/2" pieces. Drill two holes in each piece on one of the flanges and bolt them together to form a wide, shallow "U" . I used M5 bolts and nuts, but they can be whatever. Drill the center of one side of the "U" for the threaded rod and a 1/2" (12mm) hole in the center of the other side so these holes line up. With a hacksaw, make two cuts from the flange edge to the 1/2" hole so the hole is now a slot 1/2" wide.

Now assemble. Run the bolt through the matching hole in the angle piece. Slide the old tube over the bolt. Slide this through the dish tool, screw the nut down from the top and snug. Bolt the flange of the second angle piece with its 1/2" hole to the first. Done.

Use just as before except now you will be sliding that 1/2" slot over the hub axle from the side instead of simply lowering it down from on top. But no more messing with the QR or nuts every time you take the wheel out of the stand to check dish! Now building wheels is a joy with those tools I paid so little for 3 1/2 decades ago.

(Other trick - good nipple starters for rims without ferrules - start a nipple on a spoke's threads backwards. Thread it all the way down and tighten. You will see a few threads extending beyond the nipple.Bend and cut the rest of the spoke to make a nice handle. I make two, one from a 2.0mm spoke and one from a 1.8mm spoke since I use both. To use, simply start the nipple onto the starter's threads, insert nipple into the rim, screw the nipple onto the spoke with the starter, place the spoke wrench on the nipple and back out the nipple starter.)

All these tools cost me far less than one "decent" truing stand (and are easy to carry around and store). I build my wheels on the dining room table, in comfort, with music and in excellent light. Two steps into the kitchen for the linoleum floor to lay the wheel on for the dish check. The wheels are a joy to ride and last a long time except my winter wheels whose rims suffer the premature Pacific NW death due to the volcanic ash and rim brakes - giving me yet more reason for a great wheelbuilding setup.

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Old 12-05-18, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
Back at computer. Gotcher truing stand right here.

Best feature of that stand - you can change the color to fit the wheel being built easily. Race wheels call for a red Masi. Road wheels - a silver-grey Raleigh Professional.

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