no67el

Hey folks,

I am building up a Gazelle Champion Mondial. I want to use a Sugino Mighty crank have--- very nice, and I love the way these cranks look.

Is there a relatively inexpensive square-tape sealed bearing BB which will fit these cranks? The BB shell is 68mm, English thread.

I've hunted through the forum, but the information I've found seems a bit confused and contradictory. Some posts seem to suggest that an ISO taper or a Campy taper is needed, and some seem to suggest that JIS will fit.

I have a Shimano UN55 in 68x113, with JIS tapers--- will this fit, or do I need something else?

Thanks,

N

Salamandrine 

How old is the Mighty? The old ones were more or less interchangeable with Campagnolo. Current issue are JIS.

BITD we dealt with compatibility by try and fit plus consulting Sutherlands. There was no such thing as ISO or JIS until the 90s.

no67el

Thanks--- the crank I have is definitely "vintage"--- late 70's early 80's?

As I wade through the search results, it appears that I will be better off with an ISO taper designed for Campagnolo--- something like this.

Any thoughts on 111mm vs 115mm spindle length?

Thanks for any thoughts....

N

Salamandrine 

OK, then it's one from the Campy semi-clone era. Old Campagnolo was closer to JIS, so I would try that first. There was a continuum. If it's an older crank that's been taken on and off a bunch of times for BB overhauling, then it might be closer yet. Try dry fitting your Shimano BB and see how far it slips onto the taper. Post a pic if you can. Even better would be to install one of the crankarms on a known JIS BB more or less fully, say to 20 ft/lb. Then remove the crankbolt and inspect the gap from the end of the spindle to the inner face of the crank bolt area.

AFA the length -- my first guess would be 115. But if you're getting that ISO crank on a JIS spindle sort of fit, than 111.

You'll need to use a BB spacer to get the correct offset. Old BB spindles were asymmetric. I'd guess about 1.5 or 2mm will be correct. Depends how OCD you are about getting the chainline just right and the cranks exactly equal distant from the chainstays. I am very OCD about that stuff, so I may be making this sound more complicated than it is.

Hoopdriver

A number of years ago, I mounted a Sugino Mighty on a Shimano sealed BB and don't recall that it was problematic. I ended up not using that configuration because of chain line issues and reverted back to the original Sugino cup and spindle. I believe that the taper angle of both JIS and ISO is the same (~2 degrees). It's the length of the taper (and the thickness of the small end) that matters. As long as the crank doesn't bottom out on the taper or the spindle end is flush (or protrudes) with the crank's washer flat, you will be ok.

Also, consider finding and using a Sugino cup and spindle BB. I have these on two of my bikes and they work great and seem to be bullet-proof.

Salamandrine 

Well there you go. I'd expect the Shimano would work fine, as long as a BB spacer is used to shift the spindle slightly to the drive side. Nothing wrong with a standard old school Sugino BB either, though sealed is nicer if you're riding in the rain a lot.

Again, old campy/mighty tapers were closer to JIS. Besides, there was no such thing as JIS and ISO in the late 70s and early 80s. They were all nominally the same.

cdmurphy

I'm not so sure about that. I've got 2-3 sets of mid 70s Sugino Mighty cranks, and mine seem to fit better on modern ISO bottom brackets. On Shimano, they only engage about 2/3 of the internal taper, leaving about 1/4" between the spindle face and the inner end of the socket. Probably acceptable, but less engagement than I would like. ISO spindles leave a bit less than 1/8".

Well used, or previously JIS mounted cranks may be a different matter.

For ISO sealed bottom brackets, I've been very happy with the Origin8 models in 105 and 114mm. Not quite as cheap as Shimano, but not nearly as bad as Campy.

Hoopdriver

I really think the biggest positive factor in BB longevity is running proper fenders. Even when dry, the front tires throw up a heck of a lot of grit. If had no issues with the 35 year old Sugino BB installed on my all-weather commuting bike, yet I have had sealed units go bad.

Salamandrine 

I'll take your 2-3 data points then, especially since you've tried both. 2/3 of the way isn't quite enough, and 1/4" is too much IMO. 1/8" space at the end is about right. ISO is sounding like the answer, despite current advice in Sutherlands, et al.

no67el

Thanks folks---- this is useful.

My original question was prompted when I test-mounted the cranks on the Shimano UN55 bb. The BB is 68x133mm with JIS tapers, and when the cranks were mounted and tightened only a bit, it looked to me as if there was a lot of the taper flats visible inboard of the crank--- especially on the non-drive side. This seems to match up with what you all are saying (and others have said elsewhere). I was tempted to just tighten it down and go on my way, but I'd rather get a better/deeper connection between the crank and the axle.

My thought is to try the Origin8 Torqlite BB with ISO tapers in 68x115mm---- available for about $35 online.

Thanks again,

N