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Chrome Raleigh Professional

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Chrome Raleigh Professional

Old 12-28-18, 09:55 AM
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fishboy316 
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Chrome Raleigh Professional

Hi folks. Want to tap some of the Knowledge here. Was there ever a Raleigh Professional done in chrome? Have done some searches and come up blank. This is the only image i have of the bike. What say ye? Is this a Professional?
Thanks
Bill
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Old 12-28-18, 02:42 PM
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Full sloping fork crown looks Pro-ish but the seat cluster does not. Never seen a Pro in all chrome but that means nothing. We need more pix of the various frame areas.
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Old 12-28-18, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by thumpism View Post
Full sloping fork crown looks Pro-ish but the seat cluster does not. Never seen a Pro in all chrome but that means nothing. We need more pix of the various frame areas.
Seat cluster resembles a Pro MkV, which had a semi-sloping crown. I'm getting more of an "East Asia" vibe, but who knows?

SP
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Old 12-28-18, 03:21 PM
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A MkV Pro shouldn't have brazed on cable stops on the top tube or cable stop bridge on the seat stays.
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Old 12-28-18, 03:28 PM
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I'd say no. Later Pro's had the semi-wrap seat stay cluster, but I've never seen one with braze-on brake cable guides. The head-tube lugs also had cut-outs visible from the sides, none here. This one also looks like it has rear rack braze-ons (though difficult to say for sure in this photo), which would be a definite no. Decals are not even close to correct, and wheels, shifters, cranks, brakes,and saddle are not from the Pro.
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Old 12-28-18, 04:19 PM
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There was a series of the Raleigh USA bikes that had a fair bit of chrome... here's a shot of one that belongs to @RobbieTunes ....



Any chance that yours might be one of these, but with the paint stripped off?
Other than this, I don't recall any full chrome Pro's.

Steve in Peoria
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Old 12-28-18, 05:56 PM
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What is posted below is totally incorrect. I found a picture of a 69 Mk ? that looks just like the bike you have in this thread. The only difference is the color. I am fairly certain now that this bike is indeed a Professional frame, but was chromed at some point.

My apologies for the confusion.

That is not a Professional frame set from the 70-80's. Looks to have a hanger for center pull brake at the rear. Seat stay caps look incorrect, under top tube cable routing, and it looks like the seat post binder has the ears brazed on as round tabs, not the usual shaped tabs. Fork bend looks correct, but the crown is not right.

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Old 12-28-18, 06:21 PM
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EDIT: Discard what I said below and see big_chainring's reply. I forgot entirely about the Raleigh Professional Mk.I. This bike is a dead-ringer for it. Bocama lugs, seatstay treatment, and all. I've left my original reply italicized and also noted a few corrections.

First off - that Raleigh lettering on the downtube is a later addition, so we can count that out of any identification procedures.

The fork - particularly the crown - may be from an actual Raleigh Professional Mk I, II, III, or IV. As mentioned before, the bend of the blade is correct, as is the fork crown. There is no chance that the fork it could be from a Mk.V; those have flat, lugged crowns.
^ EDIT: All correct.

However, the top tube cable braze ons are distinctly Raleigh, as are the wraparound seatstay caps and centerpull stop. The wraparound cap is a hallmark of the Raleigh International, and the C-shaped centerpull stop was a staple of the International right down to the lowly Grand Prix.
^ EDIT: Correct, and my lapse was that I forgot that the 1969/70 Professional Mk.1 models had all three of these details.

I believe the wraparound caps and C-shaped cable stop are shared with the 1970 Gran Sport too, which was originally cataloged as an all-chrome machine with paint-over-chrome accents.
^ EDIT: True, but irrelevant.

However, the International was known for Nervex lugs, and this seems to have Bocama Professionals . The all-chrome 1970 Gran Sport, as seen in the catalog, also wears Nervex lugs, and the fork has a flat Vagner No.12 crown - completely unlike the OP's bike.
^ EDIT: Blah blah blah. Irrelevant at this point.

That said, the '70 Gran Sport - as cataloged - is so elusive that I don't recall any similar example ever showing up on BF. The examples that have unearthed themselves from the 1970/71 period have been seen in the conventional blue/white scheme of the late '70s, in addition to a wacky purple/blue scheme. Also, the 1970 prototype also appears to use flat, stamped Raleigh dropouts. From what I can see of the OPs pic, the bike has forged Campagnolo 1010 dropouts.
^ EDIT: More Gran Sport irrelevance, but the Professional Mk.I used Campagnolo 1010's, so again - we have a match.

I can't make it out for sure, but this bike has a 1970/71 Anniversary head badge on it, correct?
^ EDIT: Would make sense if it does.

There's no doubt in my mind that this thing is a 1970/71 Raleigh, but it is definitely one of those non-cataloged oddities that popped out during this time period. It is safe to say that it is NOT a Professional, but I can't be sure of what it is. I would hazard a guess that it may be one of the attempts at filling the cataloged Gran Sport model that year - but that's based on the chrome only. That could have been done anytime.
^ EDIT: Whole lot of malarky. It's a Raleigh Pro Mk.I that was chromed later in life. I concur with big_chainring.

-Kurt
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Old 12-28-18, 06:56 PM
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I think its a Raleigh Pro 1970. Either chromed at factory or perhaps by owner. I saw a chrome '70 Grand Sport last spring at my LBS. It was very cool looking. Just a small amount of original green lacquer around the BB shell.
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Old 12-28-18, 08:06 PM
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Old 12-28-18, 08:09 PM
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It looks like the same fork as my 85 Raleigh Prestige minus the decals. Perhaps one of these was slapped onto a GS frame?
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Old 12-28-18, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by big chainring View Post
I think its a Raleigh Pro 1970. Either chromed at factory or perhaps by owner. I saw a chrome '70 Grand Sport last spring at my LBS. It was very cool looking. Just a small amount of original green lacquer around the BB shell.
I forgot entirely about the Mk.I - it differs so much from the subsequent generations. Bocama lugs, wraparound caps, centerpull stops, sloping crown. It's all there. You're absolutely right.

(Via: https://on-the-drops.blogspot.com/20...h-raleigh.html)




Originally Posted by Pcampeau View Post
It looks like the same fork as my 85 Raleigh Prestige minus the decals. Perhaps one of these was slapped onto a GS frame?
The Prestige's fork crown tapers between the headtube and blades. The crown on the OP's bike does not; it's a Davis crown (as at right):

(From The Retrogrouch: Lovely Fork Crowns II - Reader Submissions)



-Kurt
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Old 12-28-18, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
I forgot entirely about the Mk.I - it differs so much from the subsequent generations. Bocama lugs, wraparound caps, centerpull stops, sloping crown. It's all there. You're absolutely right.

(Via: https://on-the-drops.blogspot.com/20...h-raleigh.html)






The Prestige's fork crown tapers between the headtube and blades. The crown on the OP's bike does not; it's a Davis crown (as at right):

(From The Retrogrouch: Lovely Fork Crowns II - Reader Submissions)



-Kurt
What an interesting and useful clarification! Thanks for that.
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Old 12-29-18, 08:12 AM
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WOW! Thanks for the reply's! I knew I would get the Info here! I am actually looking at a purchase on this thing. I am trying to get some additional pics from the seller but so far no answer The guy wants $650 or b/o. Worth it?. If it was chromed at the factory I would imagine it is well worth it but how would after the fact chrome job (if it is) affect the value? I have lusted after a Pro for a while now and this is a pretty cool looking bike. Did these come with bar end shifters or add on later?
Thanks
Bill
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Old 12-29-18, 08:41 AM
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Well worth it. May even have been one of the Carlton Raleigh cross overs with Carlton branding on frame and a Raleigh headbadge. And Carltons were known for lots of chrome on the high end bikes. May have had a translucent lacquer finish on it at one time. Just an awesome find.
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Old 12-29-18, 08:47 AM
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There is a facebook group, "Carlton Cycles of Worksop". You could join the group and ask there. Mainly English guys and they have a wealth of info on this era of bike.
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Old 12-29-18, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by fishboy316 View Post
WOW! Thanks for the reply's! I knew I would get the Info here! I am actually looking at a purchase on this thing. I am trying to get some additional pics from the seller but so far no answer The guy wants $650 or b/o. Worth it?. If it was chromed at the factory I would imagine it is well worth it but how would after the fact chrome job (if it is) affect the value? I have lusted after a Pro for a while now and this is a pretty cool looking bike. Did these come with bar end shifters or add on later?
Thanks
Bill
Depends if the chrome job was done well or not. If I recall correctly, there are some chemical reactions that can go on internally if the frame isn't cleaned out right (or something to that nature - I long forgot it) which may make the tubing brittle and more prone to cracking. Granted, I never saw a totally conclusive argument on this (but I've been gone from BF for years now, so that may have changed).

I think $650 sounds high for a bike that has been changed from its original appearance enough so that it is difficult to tell what it is. It depends on whether you think the chrome lessens or increases its value.

Personally, I think the chrome has improved its looks, but it hasn't done anything for its originality. If it were me - or if I were trying to sell this bike for top dollar - I'd probably put the original gold Raleigh transfers back on the downtube and top tube, along with the Ruberg seat mast colors so there'd be much less question of what it is. But that's just what would increase its value in my eyes - many may (and will) differ upon this point.

Also, though you're getting the Campagnolo sidepulls in the bargain, you are also getting Weinmann/Dia-Compe levers, from the looks of it. Not a fan of the levers, but getting the calipers in the bargain is a nice perk, if you wish to go back to Weinmanns. Cheap enough to do that, and you can put the Campags on something else if you wish.

-Kurt
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Old 01-01-19, 07:53 AM
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Well first I thank you guys for your help. Second while I was talking with you guys someone swooped in and got the bike. So I have decided to throw the resources at doing a complete overhaul and repaint on my 72 Raleigh Grand Sports for now. Really love the ride on it. The paint is flaking on it real bad.She will be my keeper so not to worried about resale so just want her pretty. Still have my eye out for the higher end Raleigh's though!
Thanks Again and Happy new year!
Bill
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Old 01-01-19, 10:10 AM
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That chrome Professional is back on eBay this morning. Just an FYI.
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Old 01-02-19, 05:51 PM
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Now the bike i local pickup. :/ I think I give up on this thing. LOL
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Old 01-03-19, 11:29 AM
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A chromed Pro that I saw last year at Brazen Dropouts in Madison...
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Old 01-03-19, 11:30 AM
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Old 01-03-19, 08:09 PM
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A couple more pics. This a pro for sure?
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Old 01-03-19, 09:23 PM
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DJM323 that is an awesome chrome frame! I don't know why pics came out so small.

hope this is better. There is surface rust but looks like will clean up good.

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Old 01-04-19, 06:42 AM
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Looks like this example was built really nicely. Fantastic score.

Have any better photos of the headtube?

-Kurt
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