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2019 the year of the ebike? And how will you react, being a C&V'er?

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2019 the year of the ebike? And how will you react, being a C&V'er?

Old 01-02-19, 08:46 AM
  #26  
jethin
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I知 pro e-bikes, but I知 concerned about how they値l share the streets with bikes, etc. U.S. streets have limited space for non-cars. If it gets more crowded, esp with 砺ehicles of different sizes/speeds and users of differing abilities, it may become more chaotic and less safe for everyone. The solution IMO is to aggressively prioritize non-car traffic on streets so different 砺ehicles can coexist safely. But Americans have been car-centric for almost a century now so I ain稚 holding my breath.
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Old 01-02-19, 09:14 AM
  #27  
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Like many, I once turned up my nose at the idea of a motorized or pedal-assist bicycle. That mindset has since changed. First, it's going to be an entirely personal choice. No one's forcing me or tugging my leg to convert to a pedal-assist bike. Those who want them will seek them out. Secondly, most manufacturers of quality models (Trek, Specialized, etc.) are sticking to pedal-assist function, not solely motorized. Sure you may get up to 20 mph or even 30 depending on the model, but you'll be pedaling to do so; it's still exercise. As many have already pointed out, there are demographics for which these bikes are perfect. It could be those with disabilities or elderly individuals. Or, it could be those who would love to participate in group rides or events but may be just shy the natural prowess to keep up or clear the elevation. If a pedal-assist mountain bike is the thing that gets a guy out riding with his friends when he would otherwise pass up the chance because he thinks he's just going to get dropped, I'll walk hand in hand with him down to the bike shop. (And shame on his friends if they exclude him or roll their eyes simply because he's on an e-bike.) Same goes for someone considering commuting to work via bike but fears arriving sweaty or late because of the distance. I would rather put them on an e-bike than have them continue driving. My older friend told me how she was going to have to stop riding her bike because of health issues and simple aging. I immediately told her about e-bikes. The simplest concerns can often stall the choice, and e-bikes are helping people overcome those concerns. A pedal-assist e-bike is still a bicycle, and why in the hell would we ever not encourage that?! So, consider me 100% pro-e-bike. Proudly so.
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Old 01-02-19, 09:20 AM
  #28  
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If you rode my Cetma Largo with Electronic power assist, with a 100 lb load of beer and kids, pedaling 25 mph up a hill, you might change your mind. They can be a blast. They are not really a bike replacement though, more like a e moped that you can actually pedal if you want.
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Old 01-02-19, 09:51 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Fahrenheit531 View Post
Keep 'em off the "no motorized vehicles" MUP and it's all good.
This is my position as well. I don't see one of these contraptions in my future.
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Old 01-02-19, 11:20 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by cinco View Post
They're yet another silly fad intended to separate fools from their money just like 29ers, fat bikes, 650c conversions, and, more recently, 650b conversions. E-bikes are nothing more than electric mopeds and will fall out of favor, as did their ancestors, when people realize that they're an expensive and mediocre way to solve a problem which already has several more practical solutions. I've been rolling my eyes and ignoring them, just as I will when bell-bottoms and 650a/700d wheels come around again.
wow, harsh stuff.

Im not saying ebikes are good or here to stay, but calling everyone who has a 29er, fat bike, or 650 conversion a fool is rough. I dont have any of those 3 things, for the record.
By design, trends and fads come and go, but that doesnt make them any less valid than anything else.

If a cyclist has a smile on their face riding a fat bike, then it isnt a silly fad.
If a cyclist enjoys conversions and wants to turn a 700c build into a 650 as a hobby project, then they arent a fool being separated from their money.
If a cyclist finds 26" wheels to have too steep an attack angle and enjoys the flatter approach of a 29er, then they also arent a fool- they are getting equipment that matches their skill and style.
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Old 01-02-19, 11:32 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
If a cyclist has a smile on their face riding a fat bike, then it isnt a silly fad.
If a cyclist enjoys conversions and wants to turn a 700c build into a 650 as a hobby project, then they arent a fool being separated from their money.
If a cyclist finds 26" wheels to have too steep an attack angle and enjoys the flatter approach of a 29er, then they also arent a fool- they are getting equipment that matches their skill and style.
#truth
Thank you for this.
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Old 01-02-19, 01:36 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
wow, harsh stuff.

Im not saying ebikes are good or here to stay, but calling everyone who has a 29er, fat bike, or 650 conversion a fool is rough. I dont have any of those 3 things, for the record.
By design, trends and fads come and go, but that doesnt make them any less valid than anything else.

If a cyclist has a smile on their face riding a fat bike, then it isnt a silly fad.
If a cyclist enjoys conversions and wants to turn a 700c build into a 650 as a hobby project, then they arent a fool being separated from their money.
If a cyclist finds 26" wheels to have too steep an attack angle and enjoys the flatter approach of a 29er, then they also arent a fool- they are getting equipment that matches their skill and style.
I don't know about that, I think it's only harsh to the sort of people who get caught up in faddish thinking.

Magazines likened fat bikes to the second coming, a huge number of people IRL and online said if you weren't riding one you were a moron, now they've all but disappeared from shops and are all over CL. That's a fad, and presumably the majority of fat bikes still being ridden are owned by the few people who have an actual use for them.

The same thing happened with 29ers and now people who wouldn't be able to tell the difference are riding crappy hybrids, now mainly with 700c wheels though that alone doesn't make them 29ers. It happened with 650c conversions and now everyone is converting those conversions to some other conversion because a magazine was wrong about the second coming the last few times, but they're definitely right this time around. And they're definitely right about e-bikes, too, despite the obvious drawbacks.

Pneumatic tires, disc brakes, and brifters are standards; wheel sizes that are all the rage for a little while and then functionally disappear are fads. Like disco. I don't have a problem with the fact that those things exist or the fact that some people find a real use for them, I have a problem with various entities taking advantage of people who go along with the crowd.
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Old 01-02-19, 01:41 PM
  #33  
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I was in Vermont in September, on the Lamoille River trail, and everyone coming out of a rental place had e-bikes. Most of the people have marginal skills, I noticed, as they zoomed by me in the middle of the MUP..
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Old 01-02-19, 02:10 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by cinco View Post
Magazines likened fat bikes to the second coming, a huge number of people IRL and online said if you weren't riding one you were a moron, now they've all but disappeared from shops and are all over CL.
This tells a lot about your outlook on life and your way of thinking about other people.

I've never read or heard anybody saying "If you don't get a fat bike you're an idiot". You are taking people getting excited about a product and projecting shame onto their excitement.

The idea that fat bikes have "disappeared" is also sort of silly. Every bike shop in my city sells them. They aren't the bread and butter of any bike shop but that's because they are for a niche purpose and a niche crowd. Most of the population is not interested in fat bikes because they would never ride their bike in the snow, and most people would never spend over $1000 on a bike, which is what most fat bikes cost. Most of the population also doesn't mountain bike. E-bikes, on the other hand, are specifically designed to appeal to anybody who is interested in riding a bike, and more-so people who couldn't ride a bike.

I think you need to update your knowledge of the bike industry. 29ers have all but eliminated 26" from MTB, except some small market segments such as dirt jumpers and downhill bikes.

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Old 01-02-19, 02:16 PM
  #35  
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To those calling e-bikes 'dangerous' is laughable. People are dangerous.

We can only hope the peoples elected lawmakers properly guide the acceptance for e bikes into society -transportation and or for recreation.

Should we take away and call motorcycles DANGEROUS to the people? Really now.

-----
Ironic that motorist consider us 'road' cyclist as the dangerous. I also ride mtb with a couple of avid off-road maniacs. I ride conservative. They've NEVER ridden with me nor do they ride on the road. They call me a hazard. Lol

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Old 01-02-19, 02:23 PM
  #36  
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For those that say e-bikes offer no exercise this is simply wrong. For the majority of e-bikes on the market the primary riding mode is pedal assist. The user gets a boost from the motor while pedaling but needs to be pedaling to use it. This is definitely exercise, and opens up biking for a lot of people who are not physically able, or in the right shape, to get up a big hill by their own power or commute to work.

There will always be bad user (going too fast on the MUP, etc...), but this is true of all vehicles. Cars, cyclists, etc... Proper legislation and enforcement helps this issue, but it's not an argument against e-bikes per se. (EDIT: crank_addict got to this before me)

For anybody who says it's "cheating", the total and utter lack of empathy for people with physical disabilities is apparent. If you think it's ok to put a bigger freewheel on your climbing bike but not for someone to use electric assist, you might be a hypocrite.
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Old 01-02-19, 02:48 PM
  #37  
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As one currently residing in a higher population area, I find it a luxury and sometimes disbelief feeling being the only one on the outstanding trail systems.

I honestly can't wrap my head around it. Hundreds of millions spent on procuring land, paved, crushed groomed trails, finely built bridges, elaborate tunnels under 'low use' traffic roads. Pick any day or time of the year and - beautiful weather, weekend holidays and I've yet to see any crowd.... perhaps counting a hand full of cyclist.

Nice as that seems I truthfully find it disgusting. Taxpayers NOT using what they've paid for and lawmakers restricting E bikes. Yet the roads are busy most hours of the day, and of course rush hour. (The best cycling hours are 11:00pm to 5:00am.)
I would encourage the law to change and promote use of these networks for commuters or anyone of course, during non snow season.

No way will it replace my spirited riding of MTB or road cycling but I have ridden a few pedal assist. They ARE fun.

I've two neighbors also who converted to hub motor driven. An early atb and the other is a retro cruiser style. They love them.

I'm building my old skool road racer with loads of fun in mind. I don't want an off the shelf e bike but rather a DIY 'sleeper' high performance hotrod, drop bar pedal assist. As I mentioned earlier, one most will hate but will WANT. There's a good chance it'll be used for visiting family or guest who can join me while I do my routine pedal 30 mile loop. No excuse if they call out being out of condition.
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Old 01-02-19, 03:03 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by crank_addict View Post
As one currently residing in a higher population area, I find it a luxury and sometimes disbelief feeling being the only one on the outstanding trail systems.

I honestly can't wrap my head around it. Hundreds of millions spent on procuring land, paved, crushed groomed trails, finely built bridges, elaborate tunnels under 'low use' traffic roads. Pick any day or time of the year and - beautiful weather, weekend holidays and I've yet to see any crowd.... perhaps counting a hand full of cyclist.
Where do you live? I want to put it on my list of places to visit!
Brent
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Old 01-02-19, 03:11 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by obrentharris View Post
Where do you live? I want to put it on my list of places to visit!
Brent
Northwest of Chicago - IL /WI border. I'm still discovering trails. The online databases are filling in but the trick is connecting state, county and local municipal trails. I've guided a few long time residents by cycling on some of these trails. They too were amazed and never realized existed. The underpasses on some roads is crazy nice -expense though has to be enormous.
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Old 01-02-19, 05:21 PM
  #40  
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I personally like e bikes and think they have the best potential for actually reducing the number of auto mobiles on the road in certain metropolitan areas . I think people who scream not on multi use paths are about on the same footing with people who said cars spooked the horses in the streets .110 years ago A regular bicycle is dangerous on a multi use path . It痴 all about the rider and not the vehicle .

A couple of days ago when I was getting my miles in at Minto Brown with a friend . I had the occasion to briefly chat with a retired cpuple on a pair of electric Trek bikes. They raved about them because those electric assist bikes were allowing them to get out , get some exercise after they were no longer capable of riding regular bikes. They weren稚 hitting pedestrians , running into cyclists on conventional bicycles nor terrorizing anyone walking their corky or lab.

People need to quit being Luddites and shouting get off my
lawn about e bikes they have the potential to offer some real change in urban areas and empower people to ride who might not otherwise
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Old 01-02-19, 05:22 PM
  #41  
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E-bikes have been around (and popular) for quite a while here in Holland. Their sales have saved many an LBS from going belly up during the financial crisis. They have also put quite a few senior citizens in hospital, who didn't have the required control.

The ones I still have not gotten used to are the speed pedelecs. They move at close to 50kph without making any sound to speak of. Especially in bad light they have surprised me more than once, and not in a good way.
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Old 01-02-19, 05:35 PM
  #42  
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This discussion is becoming increasingly strange, and I think that one reason is the very different understandings of (or laws concerning) ebikes.

Where I happen to live, electric assist is supposed to turn off at a low speed (I think 25 km/h, but offhand amn't sure). I haven't heard, or seen evidence, of people tampering with regularly marketed/sold ebikes to make them perform otherwise. I occasionally hear of, and very occasionally see, privately imported and illegal bikes in which the juice flows at up to 40 km/h or possibly beyond. (If one gets involved in an accident, I imagine that the rider will get clobbered.) I've also read of "electric bikes" that go up to 80 km/h but very likely they're out and out motorbikes, sans pedals.

Having bikes whose electric assist only goes up to 25 or 30 km/h treated in relevant regulations as HPVs, and having anything that can help propel itself faster treated as a motorbike, makes good sense to me.
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Old 01-02-19, 06:13 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by microcord View Post
I read this in disbelief. Just how many more ebikes do you want sold in a year before saying that it's the year of ebikes? ...
I live in a community of urban sprawl. Most people of driving age get in a car to drive less than a mile to go the local convenient store. I've watched people circle the parking lot of the local YMCA, looking for a closer parking space. I coached 8 year olds in soccer (football for the rest of the world), only to have parents spend the whole time on their phones, in their cars, for the whole hour and a half practices. In my burg, ebikes are unheard of.

Here's my history of bicycle paths in my area... I used to sneer at anyone (who was not on a bicycle). The paths were clearly marked "bicycle path" and were often parallel with sidewalks. But I begrudgingly realized that walkers, runners, baby strollers, dog owners, and head set wearers weren't my enemy... everyone NOT using the path was the real enemy. As much as I didn't care to share, I realize now that all of us using the pathways are still a very small minority. If I didn't form an alliance with the other pathway users, there was no way we would ever get the paths repaired, or more paths. Over time, I turned into a reluctant fan of all those activities and all the users, regardless of their physical prowess. Ebikes probably will not be for me, but I certainly can understand their place in the grand scheme of all things outdoors and public area.
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Old 01-02-19, 06:25 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by uncle uncle View Post
I live in a community of urban sprawl. Most people of driving age get in a car to drive less than a mile to go the local convenient store.
I've just come back to Tokyo from what was within memory the countryside, still regards itself as the countryside, but is suburbia. Only the occasional oddball cycles or walks anywhere. It's totally normal to drive your car the 300 metres between your place and your sister's. I don't know why obesity isn't endemic (particularly as there's a Starbucks, which has sugar-laden cinnamon rolls, etc, of diabetes-inducing size).

Originally Posted by uncle uncle View Post
On a personal crusade to bring the dork disk back to it's glory days... one freewheel upgrade at a time.
Tasty. Do you have a line in artisanally curated dork disks? (I'm open to the notion of installing Cyclone, Superbe or drillium.)
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Old 01-02-19, 09:38 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by microcord View Post
Tasty. Do you have a line in artisanally curated dork disks? (I'm open to the notion of installing Cyclone, Superbe or drillium.)
No, but, dork disks are another thing that I shunned, like sharing bike paths, and when my calmer me prevailed, I could see that they do serve a purpose. Even among the believers here, the divide between the dork disk haves and the dork disk have-nots can stir up some hot debates. I do prefer alloy ones, and the ones with factory provided drillium like holes. And my grail dork disk would be the SEKINE ones (that spell out Sekine); I have the correct bicycle to display it on, but sadly the original disk wasn't there.
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Old 01-03-19, 08:41 AM
  #46  
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I thought C&V was the place to avoid electric motorized bicycle threads. I always think it is strange that some one who "gets off their sofa" and onto a motorized vehicle would be referred to as a cyclist. Personally, I wish they would stay on their sofa or get back in their car unless they have a legitimate disability. I have no plroblem with motorized chairs on the sidewalk but they have no place on the MUPs or in the bicycle lanes.

I'm a Hater.
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Old 01-03-19, 09:23 AM
  #47  
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Do I have to have any reaction all? Certainly can’t think of any reason why. This is the CV forum right?
Tim
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Old 01-03-19, 10:09 AM
  #48  
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I have seen a lot of barely ridden 8speeds from the 1980s and 1990s in dumpsters. I guess these people are upgrading to electric. Itエs all good for me as a scavenger but I guess I will be old one day and electric bikes will probably be advanced enough in 50 or so years that I donエt even need to steer to keep balance.
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Old 01-03-19, 10:19 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
Personally, I wish they would stay on their sofa or get back in their car unless they have a legitimate disability.
Do you only ride a fixed gear and tell people using freewheels to get off the road?

Probably not.

Why is the use of a freewheel to lessen the physical exertion of cycling ok, but the use an electric assist to do the same thing not?

I guess if you do it, it's ok, but anything past that doesn't deserve to be on the road.

Honestly, this attitude of cycling being some sort of exclusive club that you are only allowed in if you do it "our way" is entirely childish.
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Old 01-03-19, 10:34 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by TenGrainBread View Post

Honestly, this attitude of cycling being some sort of exclusive club that you are only allowed in if you do it "our way" is entirely childish.
Agreed , if the cycling community at large really wants to get more people on bikes then it needs to be more inclusive and accepting of those who are not in the cult of the racer or bike messenger .

There needs to be room for everyone who wants to ride a bicycle no matter the type of bicycle it is .
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