Clamp vs. Band Front Derailleur
#1
Fillet-Brazed Member
Thread Starter
Clamp vs. Band Front Derailleur
Are these two types of derailleurs interchangeable, what's the reason for the band? I imagine it's easier to change the size of the derailleur by using a different band, where a clamp is fixed (or smaller only with shim).
Band
Clamp
Band
Clamp
#2
Phyllo-buster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,829
Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic
Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2287 Post(s)
Liked 2,028 Times
in
1,244 Posts
My experience is that band tighen more firmly and never move. Until the band snaps. Alwaye use a piece of high quality transparent tape under the band as the adjustment process can make a mess of your paint.
Bands were also useful when you used non standard or modified tubing. I had a late 80's Douglas mtn bike with oversized, ovalized tubes near the BB and that same Deore DX shown in your pics was the only FD I could find to fit, The band shapes itself to the tubing profile.
Bands were also useful when you used non standard or modified tubing. I had a late 80's Douglas mtn bike with oversized, ovalized tubes near the BB and that same Deore DX shown in your pics was the only FD I could find to fit, The band shapes itself to the tubing profile.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Port Angeles, WA
Posts: 8,016
Bikes: A green one, "Ragleigh," or something.
Mentioned: 194 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1627 Post(s)
Liked 629 Times
in
355 Posts
Easier for the manufacturer to make their FDs work on 28.6, 31.8 or any other diameter tubing, I'm thinking. With the various sizes of steel, OS steel, Aluminum, carbon composite and what have you, it makes sense to make one model of FD and a bunch of different bands to fit it on multiple different seat tubes. I'm guessing Shimano was mostly prompted by the transition from MTBs going from the standard steel tubing sizes the the new, fatter aluminum sizes.
__________________
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Whittier
Posts: 863
Bikes: 1973 Colnago Super, Litespeed Classic , Automoto , Pinarello Gavia TSX,Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra,Eddy Merckx EMX-5 , 1982 Moser SL, Concorde TSX, Vitus 979 KAS. Diamant SLX,60's Meteor
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 233 Post(s)
Liked 922 Times
in
318 Posts
Those are Shims, down Tube thicknesses vary by Tube manufacturers/Brand/Type.
#5
Banned.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,407 Times
in
908 Posts
Looks like a 28.6 band and a 31.8 band. Some Shimano and some Suntour.
Some bands will do both sizes. Most won't.
Same system used in downtube shifters.
Campy had the adjustable clamp for a short time.
Suntour had one that bolted into a hole drilled into the seat tube.
These days, shims are often used. Or braze-ons.
Some bands will do both sizes. Most won't.
Same system used in downtube shifters.
Campy had the adjustable clamp for a short time.
Suntour had one that bolted into a hole drilled into the seat tube.
These days, shims are often used. Or braze-ons.
#6
señor miembro
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 8,455
Bikes: '70s - '80s Campagnolo
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3846 Post(s)
Liked 6,437 Times
in
3,183 Posts
The banded Superbe Pro looks pretty nice, sorta like a braze-on FD. It's a tiny little thing and lighter than the campy record 3-hole FD.
#7
Death fork? Naaaah!!
Top
__________________
You know it's going to be a good day when the stem and seatpost come right out.
(looking for a picture and not seeing it? Thank the Photobucket fiasco.PM me and I'll link it up.)
You know it's going to be a good day when the stem and seatpost come right out.
(looking for a picture and not seeing it? Thank the Photobucket fiasco.PM me and I'll link it up.)
#8
What??? Only 2 wheels?
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston-ish, MA
Posts: 13,452
Bikes: 72 Peugeot UO-8, 82 Peugeot TH8, 87 Bianchi Brava, 76? Masi Grand Criterium, 74 Motobecane Champion Team, 86 & 77 Gazelle champion mondial, 81? Grandis, 82? Tommasini, 83 Peugeot PF10
Mentioned: 189 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1222 Post(s)
Liked 645 Times
in
232 Posts
#9
Senior Member
On a frame standard diameter ST, the previous owner took off all the original paint and then powder coated it, which resulted in a thicker seat tube. When I got it I built it up with a Huret Jubilee front mech, it was a tight fit, and fatigued and broke in the clamp. Of course this couldn't have happened with a steel clamp. Other front clamp-ons are fine on the same frame, I think I have an IRD compact front derailleur on there now, to go with the Defiant 46/30 chainset. It's on a braze on to .
To be fair, I had a Campy Racing Triple clamp-on break its clamp pivot pin (a roll pin) when some sloppy shifting (mea culpa) got the chain confused as to what ring it was supposed to be on. I was running a Campy Racing T chainset in friction shifting, on that.
I cursed Campy and bought a solid steel clamp pivot pin, but somebody cautioned me, "what if that happens again and the force is taken by the seat tube?" Thanks to Ebay I replaced the mech and went on my way.
To be fair, I had a Campy Racing Triple clamp-on break its clamp pivot pin (a roll pin) when some sloppy shifting (mea culpa) got the chain confused as to what ring it was supposed to be on. I was running a Campy Racing T chainset in friction shifting, on that.
I cursed Campy and bought a solid steel clamp pivot pin, but somebody cautioned me, "what if that happens again and the force is taken by the seat tube?" Thanks to Ebay I replaced the mech and went on my way.
#11
Extraordinary Magnitude
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 13,640
Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT
Mentioned: 84 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2597 Post(s)
Liked 1,678 Times
in
926 Posts
If you’re the weight weenie type- I would guess the band weighs much less than a clamp.
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,233
Mentioned: 652 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4719 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,034 Times
in
1,874 Posts
Band style fasteners were originally introduced by Sun Tour circa 1981. Originally they were called "endless clamp" mounting but this was later changed to "endless band". It was offered on both shift levers and front derailleurs. The prime purpose was to apply the clamping force uniformly along the band, reducing the possibility of deforming thin wall tubing, such as Reynolds 753, Columbus KL, Tange Champion Pro and Ishiwata 017. Secondary attributes included a sleeker appearance, less weight and, since this was the birth of the aerodynamic era, less frontal area for reduced aerodynamic drag. As noted, there was special version of some models of front derailleurs which used a brazed-on fitting.
#14
Extraordinary Magnitude
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 13,640
Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT
Mentioned: 84 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2597 Post(s)
Liked 1,678 Times
in
926 Posts
i think you can take another 5g off the Mountech FD by taking off the cable stop.
Its’s almost shocking how light the Mountech is- and it’s one of the very best and versatile FDs ever! Doubles, wide range doubles, half-step, half-step with a granny, regular triple- I’ve used it from 50T to 24T.
Its’s almost shocking how light the Mountech is- and it’s one of the very best and versatile FDs ever! Doubles, wide range doubles, half-step, half-step with a granny, regular triple- I’ve used it from 50T to 24T.
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,233
Mentioned: 652 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4719 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,034 Times
in
1,874 Posts
The weight savings between the two mounting styles is best illustrated by the New Cyclone front derailleur, which was produced in both styles. The standard, hinged clamp version (FD-3300) had a claimed weight of 101g, while the endless band version (FD-3700) had a claimed weight of 94 g. Though the actual weight saving was not great, it was a significant 7% reduction in component weight.
#16
Fillet-Brazed Member
Thread Starter
Thanks all for providing info. A seeming original equipment band type FD is in use on a recently acquired '88 Cannondale ST700.
I was curious if I needed to use the same type if I ever needed or wanted to replace it, or if a clamp type was also appropriate?
The seat tube is 31.8mm. Were band type FDs more often employed on aluminum bikes? Perhaps aluminum bikes are more likely to have unusual seat tube diameters and or shapes as mentioned.
Unrelated, the ride is definitely more jarring on this bike (despite its steel fork). I'm trying to remedy with fit adjustments, lower tire pressure and potentially wider tires
I was curious if I needed to use the same type if I ever needed or wanted to replace it, or if a clamp type was also appropriate?
The seat tube is 31.8mm. Were band type FDs more often employed on aluminum bikes? Perhaps aluminum bikes are more likely to have unusual seat tube diameters and or shapes as mentioned.
Unrelated, the ride is definitely more jarring on this bike (despite its steel fork). I'm trying to remedy with fit adjustments, lower tire pressure and potentially wider tires
#17
Fillet-Brazed Member
Thread Starter
I ran into my bike mechanic who recommended never removing the band front derailleur saying they're very difficult to get back on, he mentioned something about a spring.
#18
señor miembro
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 8,455
Bikes: '70s - '80s Campagnolo
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3846 Post(s)
Liked 6,437 Times
in
3,183 Posts
To preserve your paint, you may want to file the band of any rough edges or use a piece of tape under the band as clubman mentioned above.
#19
Phyllo-buster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,829
Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic
Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2287 Post(s)
Liked 2,028 Times
in
1,244 Posts
If you like the 28.6 Suntour FD bands, stock up on the Suntour Symmetric band shifters (clones). There's an abundance of these in the market.
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 611
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
12 Posts
i think you can take another 5g off the Mountech FD by taking off the cable stop.
Its’s almost shocking how light the Mountech is- and it’s one of the very best and versatile FDs ever! Doubles, wide range doubles, half-step, half-step with a granny, regular triple- I’ve used it from 50T to 24T.
Too bad the RD Is so heavy and has the problematical upper jockey wheel assembly
#21
Extraordinary Magnitude
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 13,640
Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT
Mentioned: 84 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2597 Post(s)
Liked 1,678 Times
in
926 Posts
Any of the "tech" stuff was a solution looking for a problem that became a problem in and of itself.
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
hgreeven
Classic & Vintage
6
04-30-14 09:10 AM