Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Who are the Top 5 Italian craftsmen of all time?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Who are the Top 5 Italian craftsmen of all time?

Old 01-24-19, 04:26 AM
  #26  
rhm
multimodal commuter
 
rhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,782

Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...

Mentioned: 554 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1874 Post(s)
Liked 409 Times in 265 Posts
Nicolo Amati
Giuseppe Guarneri
Antonio Stradivari
rhm is offline  
Old 01-24-19, 06:48 AM
  #27  
Giacomo 1 
Senior Member
 
Giacomo 1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Queens NYC
Posts: 3,175

Bikes: Colnago Super, Basso Gap, Pogliaghi, Fabio Barecci, Torelli Pista, Miyata 1400A

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 315 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by rhm View Post
Nicolo Amati
Giuseppe Guarneri
Antonio Stradivari
Oh brother, just when you think you know all about the great Italian builders, along come names you never heard of. This is a job for Google...

Last edited by Giacomo 1; 01-24-19 at 06:54 AM.
Giacomo 1 is offline  
Old 01-25-19, 02:56 PM
  #28  
shoota 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
shoota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Stillwater, OK
Posts: 7,852
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1740 Post(s)
Liked 532 Times in 367 Posts
Originally Posted by Giacomo 1 View Post
Oh brother, just when you think you know all about the great Italian builders, along come names you never heard of. This is a job for Google...
Stradivarius ring a bell?
__________________
2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2
2019 Salsa Warbird
shoota is online now  
Old 01-25-19, 03:03 PM
  #29  
Wileyone 
Senior Member
 
Wileyone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: GWN
Posts: 2,532
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1853 Post(s)
Liked 582 Times in 391 Posts
Originally Posted by shoota View Post
Stradivarius ring a bell?
I think he made Fiddles.
Wileyone is offline  
Old 01-25-19, 07:24 PM
  #30  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,769
Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2530 Post(s)
Liked 1,451 Times in 1,093 Posts
Originally Posted by Vonruden View Post
Confente
Sentimental favorite for me, I think his name does bring up that tangent of great builders who propped up the great names.
Masi did build, then brought in a range of others who were quite capable in their own right but for various reasons were sub contractors.
From report, Falerio did not have all his subs do everything, not all made forks for instance. There was rivalry set up, got to squeeze the best out when the Lira was limited.

My guess Colnago and others did the same.
repechage is offline  
Old 01-25-19, 07:31 PM
  #31  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,769
Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2530 Post(s)
Liked 1,451 Times in 1,093 Posts
Originally Posted by rando_couche View Post
Not a big Colnago fan (they were never as good as they used to be), but I'll agree with the others and add Giuseppe Pela (Tommasini's mentor) and Faliero Masi.

SP
OC, OR
Colnago did have a "lesser" interval. I do give him credit for knowing how to market smartly over time, move with the industry and turn cost saving attributes into features followed by others... The Precisa fork a good example.
The frames I have seen without paint are better than I expected. He understood how to design an enthusiastic road race bike.
He experimented.
repechage is offline  
Old 01-25-19, 08:07 PM
  #32  
Kent T
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 251

Bikes: 2002 Trek 800 Singletrack, 1982 Bridgestone Spica

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Liked 40 Times in 31 Posts
I put Faliero Masi's work over Ernesto Colnago's (though I love older Colnagos)
Cino Cinelli
Tulio Campagnolo
Antonio Stradivarius
Antonio Vivaldi

Last edited by Kent T; 01-25-19 at 08:15 PM.
Kent T is offline  
Old 01-25-19, 08:58 PM
  #33  
Wileyone 
Senior Member
 
Wileyone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: GWN
Posts: 2,532
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1853 Post(s)
Liked 582 Times in 391 Posts
Originally Posted by Kent T View Post
I put Faliero Masi's work over Ernesto Colnago's (though I love older Colnagos)
Cino Cinelli
Tulio Campagnolo
Antonio Stradivarius
Antonio Vivaldi
Don't Forget:

Carmine Galante
Sam Giancana
Vito Genovese
Frank Scalice
Joe Pesci
Wileyone is offline  
Old 01-25-19, 10:40 PM
  #34  
crank_addict
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,152
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1361 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 400 Times in 265 Posts
Originally Posted by Wileyone View Post
Don't Forget:

Carmine Galante
Sam Giancana
Vito Genovese
Frank Scalice
Joe Pesci
Joe and Sam were pretty good riders. I sometimes get them confused with Bernie Hino.
crank_addict is offline  
Old 01-25-19, 10:43 PM
  #35  
eja_ bottecchia
Senior Member
 
eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,753
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 998 Post(s)
Liked 439 Times in 281 Posts
Originally Posted by Wileyone View Post
Sophia Loren.

Mama Mia, che bellissima.
eja_ bottecchia is offline  
Old 01-25-19, 11:04 PM
  #36  
Andy_K 
Senior Member
 
Andy_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 13,978

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 465 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2740 Post(s)
Liked 2,319 Times in 952 Posts
I'm certainly unqualified to answer, but I will say that especially for the better known of the legendary builders like Ugo De Rosa and Ernesto Colnago it's rather optimistic to believe that the bike you might own with that person's name on it was actually built by that person. And for someone like Giovanni Pinarello it's bordering on romantic foolishness.

That's not to say Ugo and Ernesto weren't worthy of their reputation. I'm sure they were. It's also not to say their companies didn't produce outstanding bikes. They did. It's just to say that owning a De Rosa doesn't really give me any information about Ugo's skill as a frame builder.
Andy_K is offline  
Old 01-26-19, 12:52 AM
  #37  
wawine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Bow, Washington
Posts: 96

Bikes: 1959 Bianchi Team issue ex G Barale, 1964 Garlatti, 1971 Cinelli SC Spence Wolfe, 1980 Bianchi Rekord 748, 1982 Raleigh Comp MKII, 1989 Vitus 979 / Chorus

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked 65 Times in 15 Posts
Lino Beltramo
Giuseppe Pela
Paratella
Giame Brothers
Ortelli

nobody said they had to be well known in this country!
wawine is offline  
Likes For wawine:
Old 01-26-19, 06:38 AM
  #38  
1987
Senior Member
 
1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 860

Bikes: Cinelli SC 1971, Daccordi 1985

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked 7 Times in 7 Posts
FRAMEBUILDERS Archivi - FRAMETELLER
1987 is offline  
Likes For 1987:
Old 06-26-22, 07:21 AM
  #39  
Ravi1990
Newbie
 
Ravi1990's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Cologne
Posts: 26

Bikes: Cicli Monti, milanese district Baggio by Losa ca. 1983 / gibi - Gianbattista Baronchelli Columbus SL 80s GPM CronoSpecial & Exploit + Modolo Super Prestige / Rivola 437 ca. 1982 Massalomabrda, Emilia-Romagna, by Gianni Rivola / Peloso '69 Alessandria

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts

1. Giuseppe Pelà (Joseph/Josef/Yusuf) nicknamed "Pino", from the gates of Grosseto like his almuni/apprentice really from Grosetto, Irio Tommasini. Pelà brazed for Gios, Masi and Merckx personal racing frames ;-) faemino
2. Giovanni "Vanni" Losa from Erba, Como - later moved to Vittuone, Milano
the two master of brazing. (Quantity & quality)
3. maybe Luigi Gilardi (@Bianchi for the campinissimo! and later for Dreher and then @ Gios [Brooklyn] {the original blu from perfetti chweing gum} for Roger De Vlaeminck) or Umbero Chiesa (Gimondi rode Chiesa frames early in his career) ;-) (later master of my beloved Rivola - founders second son Gianni Rivola and Bruno Fantini)
4. Rivola
5. Francesco Freschi - viva the fastback seatcluster

sorry for
Licinio Marastoni, Lino Messori, Bruno Fantini, Angelo Picchio, Corrado Partella, Piero Serena, Fanini and Sedazzari

Last edited by Ravi1990; 06-26-22 at 08:16 AM.
Ravi1990 is offline  
Likes For Ravi1990:
Old 06-26-22, 08:07 AM
  #40  
Ravi1990
Newbie
 
Ravi1990's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Cologne
Posts: 26

Bikes: Cicli Monti, milanese district Baggio by Losa ca. 1983 / gibi - Gianbattista Baronchelli Columbus SL 80s GPM CronoSpecial & Exploit + Modolo Super Prestige / Rivola 437 ca. 1982 Massalomabrda, Emilia-Romagna, by Gianni Rivola / Peloso '69 Alessandria

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by Choke View Post
Giovanni Losa. It's an open secret that his shop built the Cinelli Supercorsas from the early/middle 90s until 2008.

This is what Richard Sachs had to say on another forum -
Losa also build frames for Felice Branca in the early 70s. Branca was the mechanic of the Filotex team and of the professional rider cuore matto / crazy heart Franco Bitossi.
Got a probably '71 or older Del Sante frame from Parma, by Losa - try to buld it up for my mom, whose father originates from Parma ).
Branca had also frames build by the brother-inlaw.. Volta at milano first later by Pelà in Turin and the Losa
Ravi1990 is offline  
Likes For Ravi1990:
Old 06-26-22, 08:20 AM
  #41  
joesch
Senior Member
 
joesch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Hotel CA / DFW
Posts: 1,319

Bikes: 83 Colnago Super, 87 50th Daccordi, 79 & 87 Guerciotti's, 90s DB/GT Mtn Bikes, 90s Colnago Master and Titanio, 96 Serotta Colorado TG, 95/05 Colnago C40/C50, 06 DbyLS TI, 08 Lemond Filmore FG SS, 12 Cervelo R3, 20/15 Surly Stragler & Steamroller

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 444 Post(s)
Liked 471 Times in 304 Posts
Originally Posted by wawine View Post
Lino Beltramo
Giuseppe Pela
Paratella
Giame Brothers
Ortelli

nobody said they had to be well known in this country!
Yes I think you may know some frame building history not based on the top name companies.

RE: Giuseppe Pelà

Tommasini worked under and received guidance from his friend and mentor Giuseppe Pelà, Italy's premier frame builders. Pelà built magnificient winning frames for many top Italian and European professionals, and upon his retirement in 1972 passed on his traditions and skills to Tommasini. Tommasini has carried on these traditions and has added innovations along the way.

ref: Tommasini - WOI Encyclopedia Italia
joesch is offline  
Likes For joesch:
Old 06-26-22, 08:47 AM
  #42  
jamesdak 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 7,771

Bikes: Paletti,Pinarello Monviso,Duell Vienna,Giordana XL Super(2)Lemond Maillot Juane (2) & custom,PDG Paramount,Serotta CSI,Fuji Opus III,Davidson Impulse,Pashley Guv'nor,Evans,Fishlips,Prologue TT,Y-Foil,Softride, Tetra Pro, CAAD8 Optimo,Klein Quantum II

Mentioned: 137 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1985 Post(s)
Liked 2,568 Times in 1,082 Posts
No Paletti mentioned??



__________________
Steel is real...and comfy.
jamesdak is online now  
Old 06-26-22, 09:22 AM
  #43  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,769
Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2530 Post(s)
Liked 1,451 Times in 1,093 Posts
A resurfaced thread.
top five Italian builders I think is near impossible.
possibly the prompt of other famous Italians mentioned not related to bicycles.

there were brands that had influence over others in Italy, overall design, geometry, marketing. There are brands that helped move others in a direction. The influencers.

my hunch is when the Milan show reigned in Italy the other "builders" took note with the work in the adjoining booths.

not really a signifier of a great bike but I have not seen a Italian bike before 1970 with the signature on the top tube other than Masi.
soon after Pogliaghi added that and so did others, Colnago being quite late to that group.

who started the engraved top of the fork crown? Savvy ideas propagate.
repechage is offline  
Old 06-26-22, 09:40 AM
  #44  
Ravi1990
Newbie
 
Ravi1990's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Cologne
Posts: 26

Bikes: Cicli Monti, milanese district Baggio by Losa ca. 1983 / gibi - Gianbattista Baronchelli Columbus SL 80s GPM CronoSpecial & Exploit + Modolo Super Prestige / Rivola 437 ca. 1982 Massalomabrda, Emilia-Romagna, by Gianni Rivola / Peloso '69 Alessandria

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by repechage View Post
A resurfaced thread.
top five Italian builders I think is near impossible.
possibly the prompt of other famous Italians mentioned not related to bicycles.

there were brands that had influence over others in Italy, overall design, geometry, marketing. There are brands that helped move others in a direction. The influencers.

my hunch is when the Milan show reigned in Italy the other "builders" took note with the work in the adjoining booths.

not really a signifier of a great bike but I have not seen a Italian bike before 1970 with the signature on the top tube other than Masi.
soon after Pogliaghi added that and so did others, Colnago being quite late to that group.

who started the engraved top of the fork crown? Savvy ideas propagate.
near impossible. true!
craftsmen are vendors...

Coppi rode Gilardi frames under Bianchi as Vlaeminck rode Gilardi frames under Gios...
strange pattern
why Valsassina build first for Bianchi and then was took over by Cino Cinelli?
why Pelà frames for Gios, Benotto, and Masi?
yes Faliero Masi is toscano too like Pelà and his apprentice Irio Tommasini
https://www.ilgiunco.net/2022/03/07/...lle-due-ruote/




'In 1948,' Irio Tommasini continues in his story, 'my uncles opened a bicycle shop and I, overjoyed, after school started with them what for me is the most beautiful job in the world. In 1956 I spent some time in Milan, at Fuchs, where I met Faliero Masi, mechanic for the Nivea Fuchs team (Captain Fiorenzo Magni) and a well-known racing bike builder. Perhaps it was because we were both from Tuscany, but a good relationship was established between us and his suggestions were of great help to me in the future'.

'At the end of the 1960s,' he reveals, 'I finally managed to meet what I knew to be the builder of the frames of almost all the most important racers of the time, Giuseppe Pelà. He lived in Turin but, as he himself was keen to point out, he was born just outside Grosseto and after a while it felt like we had known each other forever, like relatives. Many times I went to his workshop and there I learnt his construction techniques and in 1972 I took over his company'.


Ravi1990 is offline  
Likes For Ravi1990:
Old 06-26-22, 09:50 AM
  #45  
iab
Senior Member
 
iab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 11,384
Mentioned: 177 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2526 Post(s)
Liked 2,286 Times in 949 Posts
In no particular order.

Anna Castelli Ferrieri
Ettore Sottsass
Achille Castiglioni

Cesare Colombo
Marcello Nizzoli
iab is offline  
Old 06-26-22, 09:50 AM
  #46  
Ravi1990
Newbie
 
Ravi1990's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Cologne
Posts: 26

Bikes: Cicli Monti, milanese district Baggio by Losa ca. 1983 / gibi - Gianbattista Baronchelli Columbus SL 80s GPM CronoSpecial & Exploit + Modolo Super Prestige / Rivola 437 ca. 1982 Massalomabrda, Emilia-Romagna, by Gianni Rivola / Peloso '69 Alessandria

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by repechage View Post
A resurfaced thread.
top five Italian builders I think is near impossible.
possibly the prompt of other famous Italians mentioned not related to bicycles.

there were brands that had influence over others in Italy, overall design, geometry, marketing. There are brands that helped move others in a direction. The influencers.

my hunch is when the Milan show reigned in Italy the other "builders" took note with the work in the adjoining booths.

not really a signifier of a great bike but I have not seen a Italian bike before 1970 with the signature on the top tube other than Masi.
soon after Pogliaghi added that and so did others, Colnago being quite late to that group.

who started the engraved top of the fork crown? Savvy ideas propagate.
Originally Posted by Ravi1990 View Post

1. Giuseppe Pelà (Joseph/Josef/Yusuf) nicknamed "Pino", from the gates of Grosseto like his almuni/apprentice really from Grosetto, Irio Tommasini. Pelà brazed for Gios, Masi and Merckx personal racing frames ;-) faemino
2. Giovanni "Vanni" Losa from Erba, Como - later moved to Vittuone, Milano
the two master of brazing. (Quantity & quality)
3. maybe Luigi Gilardi (@Bianchi for the campinissimo! and later for Dreher and then @ Gios [Brooklyn] {the original blu from perfetti chweing gum} for Roger De Vlaeminck) or Umbero Chiesa (Gimondi rode Chiesa frames early in his career) ;-) (later master of my beloved Rivola - founders second son Gianni Rivola and Bruno Fantini)
4. Rivola
5. Francesco Freschi - viva the fastback seatcluster

sorry for
Licinio Marastoni, Lino Messori, Bruno Fantini, Angelo Picchio, Corrado Partella, Piero Serena, Fanini and Sedazzari

Pelà s bb shell cut out motif

on a Masi ;-)
Ravi1990 is offline  
Old 06-26-22, 10:12 AM
  #47  
joesch
Senior Member
 
joesch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Hotel CA / DFW
Posts: 1,319

Bikes: 83 Colnago Super, 87 50th Daccordi, 79 & 87 Guerciotti's, 90s DB/GT Mtn Bikes, 90s Colnago Master and Titanio, 96 Serotta Colorado TG, 95/05 Colnago C40/C50, 06 DbyLS TI, 08 Lemond Filmore FG SS, 12 Cervelo R3, 20/15 Surly Stragler & Steamroller

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 444 Post(s)
Liked 471 Times in 304 Posts
Originally Posted by iab View Post
In no particular order.

Anna Castelli Ferrieri
Ettore Sottsass
Achille Castiglioni

Cesare Colombo
Marcello Nizzoli
Yes all included in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...rial_designers but I would choose others mentioned above for C&V bike frames
joesch is offline  
Likes For joesch:
Old 06-26-22, 10:16 AM
  #48  
Ravi1990
Newbie
 
Ravi1990's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Cologne
Posts: 26

Bikes: Cicli Monti, milanese district Baggio by Losa ca. 1983 / gibi - Gianbattista Baronchelli Columbus SL 80s GPM CronoSpecial & Exploit + Modolo Super Prestige / Rivola 437 ca. 1982 Massalomabrda, Emilia-Romagna, by Gianni Rivola / Peloso '69 Alessandria

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
fomer swiss pro Bernard Vifian
Pelà shell, fork tangs, and guinticiclo head tube lugs (Pelà s too!)
but masi???







Ravi1990 is offline  
Old 06-26-22, 10:29 AM
  #49  
VtwinVince
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 409
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 133 Times in 81 Posts
Nobody likes Rossin? I'm keen on the guy who produced the early Grandis Superleggeras. And for other forms of transport I'm going with Giotto Bizzarini and Massimo Tamburini.
VtwinVince is online now  
Old 06-26-22, 10:30 AM
  #50  
79pmooney
A Roadie Forever
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 10,738

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3548 Post(s)
Liked 2,347 Times in 1,536 Posts
If you want to hear some deflating information on noted Italian builders, read what Tom Ritchie found when he was starting out in the '70s. He was cutting up Italian frames to see how things were done by "the best". Some of what he saw was sobering. (And basically proof that lugged and brazed construction is close to fool proof; a point that Raleigh put an exclamation point on in the bike boom. I have a Competition that apparently missed the final lug brazing and was still whole and riding fine 45 years later.)

That said, I still have a soft spot for a red early '70s Masi I spent about a 1000 miles riding with my summer of serious racing.
79pmooney is online now  
Likes For 79pmooney:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.