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What are your rules when upgrading to more modern components?

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What are your rules when upgrading to more modern components?

Old 01-29-19, 02:05 PM
  #51  
shuru421
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
Just to play devil's advocate: if you aren't already on your hoods, you're reaching for your shifters with brifters too...

Troof.
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Old 01-29-19, 03:39 PM
  #52  
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I've got a sliding scale of what I'm willing to do restoring a bike:

1. If it's pre-Bike Boom, the standard is factory original only. Period. I figure those bikes are rare enough to begin with, so I prefer to show them as they were originally built. Where I haven't come up with the proper parts yet, I'll substitute something that's period correct for the build year of the bike, or 2-3 years newer.

2. Seventies into the Eighties bikes, depending on my mood are either built to factory original or alternately something that would be an upgrade on a 3-5 year old bike back then.

3. Newer than that, pretty much anything goes, but given that I don't own anything more modern than my one bike with 7-speed Shimano RSX and brifters (an early 90's Diamondback), I usually end up staying pretty much within the age of the frame. Sold off my collection of brifterd bikes before leaving Montpelier, and the most modern I had back then was an aluminum/carbon Fuji with 9-speed Ultegra. Found I was enjoying riding the Rossins much more.

I've got no problem with putting modern state-of-the-art 11-speed on a vintage frame . . . . . . . . . except that costs too much money for my wallet, and given my riding abilities, it's not money well spent. 6-speed Shimano with downtube indexed shifters is still the sweet spot for me. Although, assuming I find a fourth Rossin RL 56cm frame, I'd be tempted to build it up totally modern just to see how it felt.
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Old 01-29-19, 04:27 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
Just to play devil's advocate: if you aren't already on your hoods, you're reaching for your shifters with brifters too...

I question this notion that one needs to reach down to get to DT shifters. Certainly I don't need to move my back position. My hand just moves over a few inches. I suppose it depends on your starting position. Mine isn't particularly aggressive at this point, but it still doesn't require reaching down.
Same here - it doesn't feel like a reach. After riding bikes laid out like this since about 1970, it feels as natural as can be. I'm getting to the point where Ergos feel as familiar, but really, not quite there yet!
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Old 01-29-19, 04:28 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by shuru421 View Post
Troof.
Out of twelve or so bikes mine are all downtube with maybe 2 or 3 exceptions (barcons). When I'm riding the barcons bikes, I almost always reach for the downtubes first!

Also I like that when using the downtube levers they don't effect the steering. The barcons seem to introduce a bit of wobble. That said I'm sure it's about getting used to them and I've got a couple sets to put on other touring bikes so I'm not against them, just getting accustomed to them. But then I also really like standard shifting automobiles too. More connection and steeper learning curve👍

For the rest of it I'm still deciding. I've got enough bikes that I'd like to at least try a modern set up and see what it's like! I've only used brifters once... On a tandem!
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Old 01-29-19, 04:42 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
Just to play devil's advocate: if you aren't already on your hoods, you're reaching for your shifters with brifters too...

I question this notion that one needs to reach down to get to DT shifters. Certainly I don't need to move my back position. My hand just moves over a few inches. I suppose it depends on your starting position. Mine isn't particularly aggressive at this point, but it still doesn't require reaching down.
I find with modern brifters the ergonomics are such that I am on the hood 99% of the time......doing drops more as conditioning and reducing waistband allow

I have no problems with downtube....building up team miyata that way downtube friction.

I don't like barcons at all..... tried them (nice indexed 9 speed dura ace) and shifting always felt more awkward and off balance than a down tube, and I kept hitting them with my knee at stops resulting in uplanned shifts at the exact wrong time
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Old 01-29-19, 05:03 PM
  #56  
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Almost all of my bikes are sporting Campagnolo “brifters”. To do anything else has become the exception. Similar setups allow me to differentiate between the frames on a handling and ride basis most easily. Once a bike gets upgraded to 2k specs it is rare for it to change.

I ride the brifterized bikes on the tops and drops in the same way as if they had DT shifting. Therefore much longer frame specs than most my size would prefer. Handle as they would have BITD

I have a few that are more period correct but those are the Sunday recovery riders.

No particular rules involved, just know what I like.
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Old 01-29-19, 06:05 PM
  #57  
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"Can I upgrade without having to upgrade a bunch of other things?"
Yes? Upgrade.
No? Forget it.
(Unless it's the RD from friction to indexed, or Shimano to SRAM. Then I include the shifters as part of the upgrade.)
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Old 01-29-19, 08:00 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Chr0m0ly View Post
For the rest of it I'm still deciding. I've got enough bikes that I'd like to at least try a modern set up and see what it's like! I've only used brifters once... On a tandem!
Brifters are one of the few modern improvements that I do actually consider an improvement. They are quite good. What I don't like about them is that they making riding too fussy. On a day out with the Diamondback, I shift about five times as often as I do with, say, one of the Rossin's. It's so convenient, the slightest uphill or downhill, I find myself shifting down or up a gear respectively. With downtube shifter, I just tramp on the pedal a little harder, or coast a little quicker.
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Old 01-29-19, 10:21 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
Just to play devil's advocate: if you aren't already on your hoods, you're reaching for your shifters with brifters too...

I question this notion that one needs to reach down to get to DT shifters. Certainly I don't need to move my back position. My hand just moves over a few inches. I suppose it depends on your starting position. Mine isn't particularly aggressive at this point, but it still doesn't require reaching down.
I can relate. I still like downtube options, a lot. Shimano was smart to make 9sp and 10sp down tube shifters. For me, anyway. I used to get a kick out of mounting modern stuff on a classic bike, because someone almost always took the bait and said something about it, almost never favorable. It's become commonplace now, so I (sniff) don't get to argue as much as I used to.
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Old 01-29-19, 10:47 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by obrentharris View Post
I don't limit myself with any hard and fast rules. My whims are my guides. Some bikes I stay pretty close to period correct. Others I veer off into more peculiar territory.

Example: A few years back I got the notion to put together a bike that would be at home on pavement and on dirt roads and some mild singletrack. I didn't want to spend a lot of money on it because I wasn't sure I'd even enjoy that kind of riding. Without buying a lot of components I put together this bike mostly with parts on hand.

The result was an unqualified success in my mind; But what a hodge-podge of parts! A forty-year-old Motobecane frame cold set to 130mm, TA cranks, Campy Chorus 10-speed shifters, Shimano XT rear derailleur and 8-speed Shimano casette, Shimano Ultegra hubs, Velo Orange rims, SPD pedals, and a Brooks saddle.



Brent
Wait wait wait. How the hell does your gearing system play nicely? I'm not well versed with 10spd stuff.
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Old 01-30-19, 09:31 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Piff View Post
Wait wait wait. How the hell does your gearing system play nicely? I'm not well versed with 10spd stuff.
Campy 10-speed shifters get along very nicely with Shimano 8-speed cassettes and rear derailleurs. Front derailleur doesn't matter since Campy front is ratcheting, not indexing. I learned about it somewhere here on C&V.

Several years ago I was given a set of Campy 10-speed levers that needed a rebuild and I had a couple sets of wheels with Shimano spacing on the freehubs so it was a cheap experiment that worked out very well. I've used it on several builds since then.
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Old 01-30-19, 09:32 AM
  #62  
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Mostly, if a more modern part improves without looking out of place, I'll consider it. My daily-rider Palo Alto has a sealed-bearing headset and is getting a sealed bottom bracket. But, despite have neck/back problems for most of my adult life, I'm resisting riser stems. "Aero" brake levels and/or brifters are no-go, unless someone comes out with "cheater" brifters that look classic and have non-aero cables.
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Old 01-30-19, 11:21 AM
  #63  
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All my c&v bikes have been from '78-92. Never owned anything older.
Given that, my views arent based on keeping a 60 year old bike original as I havent come upon one for me.

I modernize all my c&v bikes to varying degrees.

Always update-
- crankset to a 50/34 or 48/34 compact double. Usually I use a Sugino or SR crank from the 80s so it looks period correct.
- wheels if needed. Always to cassette vs freewheel. And the cassette will be a decently wide range to allow for varied riding.
- tires, tape, pedals, and saddle. These are touch points for me and the bike so they must be comfortable. No plastic or cotton tape for example.
- bars. Soma Hwy1 bars are the go to. Inexpensive, fit well, and offered in silver.

Sometimes update-
- drivetrain. I usually keep it original if its something quality(mid-level or better) and indexed since all of my c&v bikes are 7 or 9sp and thats compatible with indexed Shimano.
- stem. I usually get a Nitto Dynamic II stem as its 90deg and is still a quill. Allows for better fit on the c&v frames I use.
- shifting. Indexed bar end shifters(for the touring bike) or STI/paddle shifting(for the road bikes). I have never liked downtube shifters and when Microshift 7, 8, and 9sp shifters cost $43 shipped to me, there is no downside to changing shifting over.



I like old steel with a mix of modern and period correct components. Its a lot of the fun for me- to mix and match to make a bike that works great for me.
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Old 01-30-19, 11:30 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by cinco View Post
Beyond consumables, my rule is "don't". It ends up being a poor substitute for a new bike as well as destroying most of the immediate and future collector value. If I want a new bike I'll just go buy a new bike, but I'm here because I like old bikes and that's what I ride.

Remember that there's a whole lot of stuff in museums that wasn't historically significant or one-of-kind rare for a long time. It's tough to go wrong by respecting our history.
None of my bikes have 'collector value'. Most bikes here dont have collector value. Those that do have collector value are procured to be displayed and not ridden, so this conversation is pretty moot for that type of bike.
I respectfully disagree that a modernized c&v frame is a poor substitute for a new bike. What I see is typically significantly less expensive and the quality is often time at the same level or better. My wife's road bike is a Cannondale Synapse with Sora drivetrain. It listed for almost $1100 retail 4 years ago. I have modernized c&v frames with higher level groupsets and better quality wheels that cost half as much.
I wouldnt ever sat that updating a bike is disrespecting our history either.


With that said, i love the look of an original 40 year old bike. It can be just beautiful.
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Old 01-30-19, 12:17 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by cinco View Post
B It's tough to go wrong by respecting our history.
Since all of my now "C&V" bikes were purchased new, modified for my fit and functional requirements before they left the shop and have been kept in service since with whatever replacement hardware has been necessary they are part of my ongoing cycling history. That's all of the respect they are going to get.

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Old 01-30-19, 12:44 PM
  #66  
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I got my motobecane super touring new, when I was 15. I started swapping parts when the next Bike Warehouse arrived. As best as I can recall, I've never changed the headset. Just about everything else has been "upgraded", often more than once. My other bikes get modified as desired too. Brifters - done it. Triples - Usually. bar-cons- often. 27" to 700c conversions -sure. Raleigh three speeds would be the exception. I tend to look for period appropriate parts for those, if only because so little else fits.
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Old 01-30-19, 12:49 PM
  #67  
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I personally believe that there are no rules. However, If im going to retro-mod a bicycle I do the entire thing. I dont just upgrade brakes or drivetrain. I only did this once. see the Miyata below. I also have a factory retro-mod Masi. Made in Chitaly. I have one more retor-mod I would like to make. Maybe a Colnago steel frame with Newer Campagnolo Record.







I changed to a flat stem.
I personally believe that there are no rules. However, If im going to retromod a bicycle I do the entire thing. I dont just upgrade brakes or drivetrain. I only did this once. see the Miyata below. I also have a factory retromod Masi. Made in Chitaly. I have one more retormod I would like to make. Maybe a colnago steel frame with Newer Campagnolo Record.
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Old 01-30-19, 01:05 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by jjhabbs View Post
I personally believe that there are no rules. However, If im going to retro-mod a bicycle I do the entire thing. I dont just upgrade brakes or drivetrain. I only did this once. see the Miyata below. I also have a factory retro-mod Masi. Made in Chitaly. I have one more retor-mod I would like to make. Maybe a Colnago steel frame with Newer Campagnolo Record.







I changed to a flat stem.
I personally believe that there are no rules. However, If im going to retromod a bicycle I do the entire thing. I dont just upgrade brakes or drivetrain. I only did this once. see the Miyata below. I also have a factory retromod Masi. Made in Chitaly. I have one more retormod I would like to make. Maybe a colnago steel frame with Newer Campagnolo Record.
Those turned out very nice. Congrats!
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Old 01-30-19, 01:24 PM
  #69  
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Will it be more fun? Will it be lighter? Will it be cooler looking
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Old 01-30-19, 01:34 PM
  #70  
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As long as it doesn't destroy the aesthetics of the bike, I'm cool with adding modern stuff.

I absolutely hated the original brake levers on my Grand Jubile, so I swapped out the levers for short reach Tektro's, and added some Tektro cross levers at the time time. The MKS Sylvan bike pedals fit right in with the French styling. The Orange Velo bottle cage doesn't seem out of place. The bike still looks beautiful to me, and it's a lot more comfy and functional on my 3-mile round trip bike commute.

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Old 01-30-19, 09:29 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
Just to play devil's advocate: if you aren't already on your hoods, you're reaching for your shifters with brifters too...

I question this notion that one needs to reach down to get to DT shifters. Certainly I don't need to move my back position. My hand just moves over a few inches. I suppose it depends on your starting position. Mine isn't particularly aggressive at this point, but it still doesn't require reaching down.
Well, to play devils abacus advocate... the hand you're reaching with has no control of the bars at any time from the beginning of the reach, during the shift, during the trim and the reach back up to the bars. Best case scenario, you avoid the time spent trimming. You could also miss a shift, taking even more time with 50% of your control removed from the handlebars.

It seems that many, many riders have adopted the position on the hoods- as riding on the hoods as a comfortable, viable location to ride from. When shifting from the hoods- even if you have to move position to get to the hoods, both hands are capable of being (if not already) in control of the handlebars during shifting. In a cursory Google Image search- without exception- every bicycle, regardless of the shortness of the top tube and regardless of how short or slammed the stem is, ALWAYS has the shifter boss lower than the bottom drops and well to the rear of the end of the bars, necessitating a reach downwards and rearwards to shift downtube shifters.


But since this thread is about individual "rules" about "modernizing" bikes- judging from pictures people have posted- there are a few aesthetic and functional choices that I would say are "questionable," (and a whole lot more that I think are outrageously fantastic), but the most important part is that people love what they're riding.
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Old 01-30-19, 10:50 PM
  #72  
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I don't know if I'd call them rules but I do have two visual preferences when I plan my builds.

First, I think the seatpost, crankset and stem should all be same color (all chrome or all black).

I also like saddle and bartape to match.. if the bartape is matched with something else on the bike (a color on the frame or the cables) then the saddle should be black or white.
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Old 01-31-19, 09:15 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by ratfink76 View Post
I like saddle and bartape to match.. .
The matching brows cue.

Originally Posted by ratfink76 View Post
I think the seatpost, crankset and stem should all be same color (all chrome or all black).
Ah, the "two eyes and a mouth" triangular visual cue...

Originally Posted by ratfink76 View Post
.. if the bartape is matched with something else on the bike (a color on the frame or the cables) then the saddle should be black or white.
….and the bleach blonde situation.
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Old 01-31-19, 11:59 PM
  #74  
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Bikes: 1975 Bob Jackson - Nuovo Record, Brooks Pro, Clips & Straps

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I allowed my bike's components to evolve over the decades. The only things original were the seat post and saddle. Then, about ten years ago, I said to myself, "Screw it all!". I put the original equipment back on it and couldn't be happier.

I now have a 5 speed freewheel in the rear and Nuovo Record throughout. There are only two upgrades I kept to avoid maintenance - a Phil Wood bottom bracket (~1978) and Performance sealed bearing wheels.
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Old 02-01-19, 02:51 AM
  #75  
Midnite
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Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: izmir
Posts: 46

Bikes: 2011 Bianchi SLR 200 - Decathlon BFOLD 3 - Kron MTB 2300 - 89 Peugeot Saint Bernard

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wow thats great
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